Butterdoll

I'm not in that discussion, let me put this way, personally i'm happy with more CLs grade guns past t7 Even that is better than waiting for your guns to reload and your turrets to turn. At least , you are able to take the shot. "... if you like the Hipper and kinda wished it had fast firing guns..." No Zoup For You words nailed it hard in the head

150 mm can still make DOT, you still get 11 or more fires in a game. (Nurnberg, after IFHE rework) I personally prefer 152/155 over 180 or even 203, the last ones may hit harder but the first ones are more versatile and can do things quicker. Hipper saw it's reload being buffed, Eugen gained the heal (and the reload was adjusted) at that time I thought I can work with it, regarding Hipper, and I can but not only 150's will deal better with DDs e.g. But that small difference in armour can make the player survive his own overconfidence even when against 380 mm. Hipper will lose every time to a HE battle, and that's a shame cause it's a pretty good ship. I'm prepared that's because that values are initial shell velocity 960 ms are not bad for close/medium range and overall they are the second best thing after the 152s Russians. My first Donkoy games my aim was a little off I had to adjust, after Budyonny , Shchors, Chapayev , I had to go back to those 180 mm I left at t5 and... A couple of years ago there weren't any CLs after t7, now there are some, with Mainz we have a tankier CL than the usual and the guns may be as useful as the t6 ones but at higher Tiers.

@Sunleader A t8 Nurnberg, a bad thing? No. A Hipper without the drawbacks of 203 mm or 180 mm it's not a bad thing. I decided to not spend money because of subs but I will open an exception for Mainz. Tallinn and Mainz are very similar. A Hipper with 180 mm or a Hipper with150 mm? Tallinn can have better pen but Mainz shoots more often. I don't have Eugen, but I have Hipper and it can brawl a bit but don't have much sustainability which it's a shame. Not being as good to brawl may be a good thing, it means it can focus in the role of spamming shells at distance faster than Donskoy. it can equal in volume of fire a broadside Donskoy with just half of the guns. I'm sold

yeap, I'm gonna buy it. Of all upcoming German ships, Mainz is the one I was excepting more Not only @Bunny_Lover_Kallen revived my hopes ( I was about to ask him/her if he's /she's a salesperson ) But... And In the end No zoup for you made a lot of sense to me. "... if you like the Hipper..." (which I do ) "... and kinda wished it had fast firing guns..." (which I do) Another ship that I like very much (one of my go to ships), Nurnberg, and can hold it's own after the IFHE rework despite suffering a bit vs t8 BBs, it's like having DD guns in the sense of damage output, but one still can get the fires and DOT, if... So , a T8 Nurnberg with 12 fast firing guns with the armour of a Hipper, seems pretty nice to me. while, the upcoming RU Ships seems promising, this... Didn't impressed me much. Meh at best Pls note, i'm not saying it's not strong, i'm just saying if instead of 180 mm, the guns were 152 mm it would be nicer. The rest don't bring nothing new, except being a t8 Donskoy with Turtle back armour But fortunately the gap between Shchors and Moskva (Moskva has a decent reload) will be filled with the new RU CL's

I'm in the opposite side of you. Siegfried and Aegir I have no interest. Now, Mainz, it's another story, a cl in higher tiers I'm or was very interest in it, an reincarnation of Nurnberg. Overall, CA's are just boring. Odin is... was at the top of my things to get as well. And as long v2 has the WIP thing I'm crossing my fingers, no way they will leave Odin in such state -10k HP and from 0.01 fuse time to 0.033. there will be a third version. We are not talking about some Fuso crap boat, we are talking about a German BB, a brawling ship , and we need competent brawling ship badly. I will wait. and see.

So, I decided and I went for it. Well, the BB line that I have more familiarity it's the German line, but from what I saw this will be as good as the Germans, the brawling potential was exactly what attracted me, what in the end beat Smolensk to the finish line (deep down I always knew that I would end up with JB, ticked all the boxes, I only wanted to be sure, so, I waited) Now, I know what this ship can do, I fought against it plenty of times and I have a general idea of the ship. So, Build suggestions? thank you.

@K82J I'm curious... why Blyska and not Friesland?

Both of them run with the same engine. there's no point driving a Mercedes, nowadays they are just an overpriced Renault

I was thinking about that. My gold standard it's Bayern for better and for worse. I have almost all my modules sorted out but i'm undecided about two of them. the first doubt it's between the acceleration module and the damage control 2 At first sight JB is fast enough and turns well, but it's kind of slow from full stop to any speed do I take it for helping dodging torps when i'm bow in? or do I take damage control 2 to help to take it on the chin? my second dilemma it's about main battery modification 3 I will gain 12% on the reload time but i'll lose 13% in turret transverse speed. that will put JB's turrets as slow as my Bayern's turrets and I always found those a bit for the slow side. (42.9 sec). And besides I have AR and the consumable to cover that. What do you think?

140 k +51k = 191k 191k+ 10k (if you play all 10 days ) = 201k you are 27 k short What about your clan buildings ? I think there are building that gives coal bonus (small) and maybe you'll be lucky with the containers RNG. :) @rnat @DFens_666 Thank you. I checked and I have Honore laying around doing nothing. Regarding modules... the new one that increases the speed of other modules , worth it or not?

Do you have any coupons left? from 228k it will be reduced to 171k Do you have any steel? it can be converted to coal if you lack coal . in a ratio 1 steel = 10 coal check the armoury I think that will happen automatically if you have enough steel. 10 days ….2 containers a day + 200 from daily missions (the easy one) it's 1k a day.

Which mistake (ship?) may I ask? Nah, at least that's out of the way now, the most I did with them up until now was under 3k The build will be for random/sprint. Yes, I'm doing a lot of co-op games, i'm getting a lot of new ships lately, Moskva, Akizuki, JB and more are coming soon but there's no Ops for them, the captains are low and I don't want to take them to PVP in the current state. I'm leaning towards tank build too. perhaps this. But what about the cvs? From what I understand JB can have a very stale gameplay, it can switch from being very fast to be a "road block", it can be very susceptible to planes attacks, so, what about BFT and AFT? perhaps trading CE and PM for them, and let the concealment module mitigate to +- 13.4 km? It would be harder to disengage and the all thing would be very dependable to the 15% faster RP, turrets included. Or this is a bad idea?

What did I said about Moskva that's so outlandish? What I said about Moskva still stands regardless of the mode I play. And Moskva isn't the focus in this discussion. This all thing started because you apparently prefer Chapayev over Shchors and that's ok, you are within your right. But that second paragraph was a bit iffy. At first sight, chapayev and Shchors are practically the same ship but in the "field" the first it's noticeable slower and more sluggish than the last, and then it gets a radar. Chapa works as good as Shchors when it sticks to HE spamming but at the same time can struggle for range. And because of this, mainly for this two short comings, Personally, every battle I've done with Chapayev I wished for Shchors. Donskoy it's a ok ship but has it's issues. Making me wish for Shchors in many situations. That's why Shchors has a 19 point captain and Chapayev don't even has a captain Overall. Shchors it's the squishier of the three, but it's fast or even the fastest and more agile of the three, great guns , and can shoot the furthest of the three. In dd threat department None of the three has a clear advantage over the other, yes two of them have radar, the other no. one feels very awkward, the other has a lower ROF and slower turrets. I didn't expected this, to be honest, but was what I found out after playing Donskoy. For me, Shchors it's the best RU cruiser to be vs t5 or t9.

I only said that Moskva can handle radar much better than t8 and t9 (trade offs) the Comparisons i made was only between Shchors vs Chapayev vs Donskoy. IMO, Chapayev should never had radar in the first place.

What? I thought those ships would be pulled out with 0.9.3 patch. when is the next patch?

No it's not, for me at least. I tend to favour quick rudders and speed over small turning circles. (the only exception being Nurnberg). and you can amplify those few meters closer or further away with speed changes. If I get both of them ,great, if not then I go for the first. I don't like cruisers that take forever to start moving whatever way. Angling with some ships it won't work, you have to dodge or...Bummm. Trying to brawl? with either ships? only if you want to fail miserable especially vs a Lyon. I can't complain, in fact ,Shchors is one of my go to ships. My first and last line of defence kind of ships. Better not to play Moskva outside co-op,for now. Because reasons like. - I just got it, I only have 26 games with it. - I have PT and AR and that's about it, it's all my 4 point captain can muster at the moment. But going to ranked with this "build" crossed my mind (for the steel) but then the common sense prevailed. So, eventually. But from what I saw up until now playing in other modes it's a given

Smoke cruisers always have better concealment than regular cruisers was what i meant. So comparing smoke cruisers to regular cruisers, yeah... yeap, we are saying the same thing. having a quick rudder means, the ship is quick to respond but once you commit to a turn you can spend a lot of time depending on whatever turning circle radius the ship has. When you add distance and shell travel time to that initial respond , you have time for those small corrections to your direction to be enough for incoming shells hit the spot where you should be if you wouldn't do it. I didn't say that, about brawling BBs. But Shchors has that potential, Chapayev don't have, and for the t8 that it's more critical because when it goes closer to the cap because of that radar, that situation may arrive. when a BB is about to appear from behind a island e.g. Shchors has an insurance policy, Chapayev it's screw. Again, that's pretty common not only for Shchors but for all low HP cruisers. Listen, IMO, having worse armour it's not the end of the world, Nowadays there's no much of a difference with high calibre guns that exists in the game, even 27 mm it's not what it used to be. Guns are good, speed it's good, and the extra range can be very useful in certain situations, the rudder it's good too. I run RPF + Hydro, so, the radar it's not a "must have" for me. T8 and T9 short comings and downsides are not the end of the world either but they nag me a lot more and no radar in the world worth that. With Moskva all changes, it's tanky, it's fast in a strait line, has wonderful fast shells, with a decent reload and they hit hard, the radar doesn't interfere as much with the ship itself as in t8 and t9. Lazo it's the so called smokeless Kutuzov, right?

Helena, dallas and so on have poor range Fiji, Leander, Huang He have excellent concealment better than this only DDs, and they are not regular cls, they are smoke cls. we are basically saying the same thing, having a quick rudder helps a lot to dodge and duke incoming fire, but that it's not turning. RU ships do not turn well. yeah, radar is very useful against that DM at 17.5 kms ,stationary, behind a rock and you can't do anything about that, with Shchors you could put the spotter plane up + 19 kms of range and ,at least, you could make him move. But i can fix that. I'll pick the hull that has the spotter plane. Shchors and Chapayev are basically the same ship on paper but on the field they are not. Chapayev it's slower ,while turning can go as low as 28 /27 knots spending more time doing it, Shchors drops as well but later and recovers the speed faster. Shchors can sink a BB with torps in a pinch, Chapayev can't and can be up against BBs with larger HP pools.so... IMO Radar hurts more than it helps Fair enough, but for a regular DD (not kitakaze and alike) it's better to think twice about that. Even Atlantas, it's better to think twice about that. Shchors can tear apart an Atlanta.

Just wait a second... Concealment it's ok at 11.6 kms normal for your typical CL, while manoeuvrability it's not stellar it's not bad either , depending what you want to do, for turning it's bad but for dodging and duke, it's not bad if combined with shell's travel time. Now you can just stop. Nah, if you mean because of the radar, nah, it's not worth it. Chapayev it's a pig of a ship, slower to respond than Shchors, it's painful slow , has less range (main guns), has less torps and deals less damage 60.400 k vs 53.799 k Chapayev it's like a worse Shchors with a radar, a 20 second radar, that's iffy (you can insta detect ships, i'll give you that). And if you Equip RPF + Hydro in your Shchors, chapayev becomes even more iffy. the lack of speed amplifies the "turning like a brick issues". I didn't like it. every single low HP cruiser can be gunned down by a DD. Donskoy it's better than Chapayev and it's enjoyable , but has it's own issues, slow ROF, slower turret transverse speed, with Donskoy you can lose the ability to insta detect ships but it's ok overall, can leave you wishing for Shchors in range of Main Guns and ROF in some situations. Shchors is faster in everything, shooting, turning, reaches further than t8 and t9, has more stopping power and RPF + hydro can be a substitute for radar, and while supporting a dd can be deadly for a dd, CL, CA, or BB

I already said this but... Probably , one of the few differences between me and @NothingButTheRain is my inaptitude to setup proper coms. So, we went two different paths. He went division, I went solo. The hiding behind a division phrase was in a context, a very particular context, people defending UF hard mode while only doing it in a division. (not him necessarily) This two things made us having divergent P.O.V. Starbuck and others aren't convinced about the economic Nerf in Narai. I don't mind, if that means no more UF hard mode kind of ops. Regarding signals, yes I do use them (at least in Bayern, just don't ask me which ones) but I'm not aware of them if the ships has it or not I don't have a stock of signals that I can use regularly, I have to pick the moments, what I can say, the last of those moments was in Halo ops where I piled up near 1.6 million elite XP

It's not like that, at all I don't want to give the impression that I'm against divisions, I'm not. you are entirely correct to choose with whom you do operations or if you do it alone but there were a lot of guys defending the Hard mode, back in the day , most probably they played in divisions, no way they played it solo and maintaining that opinion and i bet in that time almost all knowledgeable players, entered in divisions to do UF, in such numbers (I believe), that was impossible to a regular player to do it. Oh yes, there was and was not only UF, was every other ops. But UF was taken to the extreme. Soon after Narai was released, topics about How much I farmed started to appear, with crazy numbers, then they took it out , I think, Narai was released again after the UF experiment, new bots to try to slow the farming but I think it didn't work because it was too aggressive and not very efficient, division continued to farm and regular players not even a "bone" would take out of it. Narai ended up to be pulled out again to rebalancing, this time economically. IMO if WG take this path ops will be farmable to a lesser degree but farmable and will be more enjoyable at the same time I've heard rumours about NA server where WG released those psycho bots in co-op

Wait...what? how? one thing has nothing to do with the other. I don't put any signal most of the times in most of my ships and I still want to win No. UF hard mode, was much harder than what it used to be, so, the op regulars player took refuge in divisions in a much larger numbers, draining, not necessary good players , but more important, players with a good understanding of that particular op from the available player base, leaving the few who remained with random teams very frustrated, I stopped playing that monstrosity for good. Mainly Because, after 1 game I had enough it didn't pay off either of you won it or lose it, too much effort for what it was That's easy to say (what's in bold), when hiding behind a successful division. And yes, you don't need 19 point captain to be good in operations, normally you can play ops with stock ships and low points captain and be good even with random teams... until that thing called UF hard mode. But play it with a random team and see how miserably you (you as in general) fail even if you are extremely good at it.

And it's awesome. a droplet of water in a desert And there are several build possibilities in one ship.

I can't answer that, yet. I'm still in testing but I'm aware there are things that will work differently in a real game. the only time I was against a Smolensk I had to sink the other Akizuki then I was runned over by a teammate out of my own smoke.

My train of thought but I'm inexperient in dds Well, my actual concealment it's at 6.8 km with the module and camo, pretty much service from what I've seen. A gunships has always a worse concealment than it's prey, so the RPF will give me some feedback to where the closest ship is, if I'm in a smoke or having some kind of feedback when or if I don't have anything more to use. and 6.8 it's good enough against other classes. I have SI in my actual build and I'm thinking of dropping it in favour of AR and BFT for the guns, to have a reload around about 2. something seconds. Focusing on the guns I happily would have shorter range torps for longer smokes. Brit smoke...nah, I don't get it. Maybe, what may feel like a handicap it's not that excuse for smoke but the hydro? which can neutralize that 2.5 km detection from smoke while you don't have that option leaving you in a disadvantage and Daring can be equally nasty in gun power. But there's a lot of things I can't test, one of them being against hydro. So, it's all pretty much in theory I pump so much shells in a game that I simply don't miss the IFHE, I get 11 fires or about that number. LWM says to get it but she says to not get it if it's a torp boat, but against t9 or t10 the gains are null, so, I don't know. @GulvkluderGuld What is your concealment? I use RPF in many of my cruisers, I hunt them when and if I can , but I never stay perma spotted but when a dd, I don't know...... This ship can have several builds, I'm still deciding.