Butterdoll

Wait, wait. Moskva will be demoted? Will be no longer t10?

Thank you. But now i'm a bit confused. Sorry if I'm being a bit thick In post #45 you started to say this. "Lets put several fallacies to rest (assuming they keep the test 3 model, or at least close enough to it)" And you went on reassuring that things were not as bad as we thought. I went to see test 3 which I posted a vid of it (that vid it's from 3 months ago). there are discrepancies between some things that you say and what the vid shows (both being from test 3), like the minimap. e.g. In the vid the minimap still works when the sub is underwater and you say it doesn't work in the same situation. In Point C (what's in bold) you say there was plenty of things broken in test 3. Test 3 was changed? Clearly your screenshots shows that a sub can be damage by guns. Is there a test 4?

@TheWolfQueen If you mean, Roderich, Please inform the Zimmers, his return will be delayed due to important affairs The former Chancellor of Germany took him under his wings. H

I've seen the vids. 3 months ago, test nº3 care to comment? https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=wows+-+submarines+test+3+flamu&&view=detail&mid=EE3D3E4BFC37AB947295EE3D3E4BFC37AB947295&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dwows%20-%20submarines%20test%203%20flamu%26qs%3Dn%26form%3DQBVR%26sp%3D-1%26pq%3Dwows%20-%20submarines%20test%203%20flamu%26sc%3D0-30%26sk%3D%26cvid%3D44DE0C539D874E16A5933A45E8DF1501

You clearly don't understood, this point. All i meant was if i stop caring/stop playing ,the game becomes irrelevant to me. or irrelevant to the people that stop playing. Ofc the game will continue being business as always No. What the cv clusterfck shows us. The community don't have to be the lab rats to test things on. It's rubbish having consecutives patches and hotfixes one after another, crazy and extreme fluctuations in the game mechanics. the clusters of ships happen because the cv could spam torps every 20 seconds. they could stealth drop on you , by the time you spot the planes (last wave) the rest of them had already torps on their way to you and so on. There is a place, a server for that, filed with voluntaries from the community. On the Live Server there should only be the finished product. I disagree. A BB can be as hard to hit as a cruiser, once you get detected in a BB you have to make yourself as unpredictable as you can. Regarding DDs... the game works like that (harder for dds) since patch 0.8 But I am having fun. 94 random battles in the last seven days according to the stats site. The thing is, I did 2 breaks already I spent half a year out , I was in other games but I don't like to waste money, so my initial plan was to return, run the clock down and once the premium time ended, then I would be gone for good. But i'm still here because i'm still having fun I don't take things serious like I used to take I doubt very much that i'm gonna experience another burn out or meltdown but... leaving the game turns to be easier each time you leave. Since I've been here the community changed a fair amount. back in the day I remember an infestation of ponies and so on

1- Which fallacy? If I stop playing this game, this game become irrelevant to me. 2 - No, that's not why i'm against subs, because my expectations were not met. Mainly it's because they are all or nothing, the sub itself has practically no HP, stupid OP torps nothing else to show for, will be tiny underwater smolensks. You can't blast them out of the water with guns, only with depth charges and BBs have nothing to counter them. 3- Subs will much worse than cvs and worse than smolenks in their own special toxicity, at least you can do something against cvs or smolensks, and if the current gameplay is the way it is now just wait to see how will get worsen. 5 minute games will seem a good game in the future. And all the other issues that plague the overall gameplay will be amplified. 4 - Yes there is, and I'm not alone when I say, putting money into this game right now it's a high risk move because can be an investment that you will not see any return (fun), because you can just stop playing for good (you as in general you). Remember the Mainz topic when I said I will broke my rule and buy Mainz? This rule was implemented because of subs. I don't know the future, but take a look at the cv rework , how divisive it was, not only changed the dedicated cv playerbase, but had an impact in all the other players, builds, and so on, it changed the "landscape", it changed the game itself, and we are only talking of a rework of an already existent ship type. Now imagine what a completely brand new ship type will do in a rock, paper, scissors scheme. About that tear meme... Are you absolutely certain that you will not be one of who cries at the end? I found that meme was so out of context. Drop the shares = stop playing completely, expending money. And it's not that hard, the last time I returned I did it to not waste any more premium time, just for that. After all, I bought a year and only enjoy it half. I'm not rich and I didn't want my hard earned money to go to waste. About fun, I can't tell you. I had fun when I started, I still have fun in certain games, but the cv rework, it's like they say they are the fun police. With subs I just don't know. All dds will be smokeless, whoever approaches certain points will be detected regardless of radar or hydro and focused by camping ships at distance , ships exploding from thin air left and right, there will be no more battle lines or flanks, the teams will be clusters of ships (like we saw in cv rework, early days) or spread apart. there will be a lot more crossfires with subs bypassing the lines all the time and torping from behind. It will be total Chaos. Why the hell should I want to play that?

1- you are entirely right when you say I'm irrelevant, but so will WG became irrelevant if I decide to move on to the next game . In my country we have a saying that roughly translated goes more or less like this. " Anyone who is not well (in a place/ with a situation), move on" 2 - Initially I was all for subs, but not like this, this will be a monstrosity , instead of frigates and corvettes vs subs in merchant lanes, we will not even being able to shoot them out of the water, think about how crappy the current gameplay will became. 3 - Most probably your tear meme will bite you in the [edited]as well in the [edited]of plenty more people.a good chunk of pro sub players will be disappointed, after a while. But let's take it easy and let's see how things get implanted. One thing I tell you, I'm assuming a high risk investment posture, I wont put any more money until I see the result and i'm ready to drop the "shares" at the first sign of trouble. Cut my loses and bail out ASAP. I feel that the "Bear market" times may be coming.

No. No subs in the game. I wont spend any money until this ghost (submarines) are vanquish once and for all. And most probably I will go away if the subs arrive. Then, who wants to play subs should go play into another server but the live one . you want to play subs, go ahead and go play in the other server. I'm not about saying this all the time... but there's a high probability if the subs come Butterdoll is signing out

First thing , first, German line, up until now it's my second favourite line, even if we don't take BBs into account, one ship remains, one ship that I can recommend highly, Nurnberg, it never fails and I can always count on it. Now... Hindenburg is it worth the bother? I'm asking this because... I reached Roon and i'm a bit frustrated with Hipper. Hipper it's an awesome ship it has the capabilities and the potential to be great but for whatever reason it's not. I'm playing Baltimore and thinking, this is how Hipper should be, this is how Hipper should feel. But instead, the shells are weak, the turrets are slow and the reload is workable but meh. It hasn't any sustainability at all when brawling and the Hipper that has, it's reload it's very BBesc A terrible waste of a ship if you ask me. Relax ,this isn't a pls, Buff Hipper topic.... Moving on. After a whopping 13.8 million credits I unlock Roon and for my surprise Roon has the same setup as Nurnberg...yeah, my exciting was short lived after I saw the reload time of the guns. + 13 seconds After a test in co - op the guns feels the same as Hipper's , I saw some old vids ( yeah, it would be nice if WG/CC's could find a solution to refresh the reviews more often) and the 1 or 2 year ago Roon had a shorter reload 8 or 9 seconds. One more thing... Many of you will say yeah, go for it and stuff but I just want to point out that whoever like Mogami says the same thing but forgot a detail, when Mogami turns hard the guns freezes where they are, a detail that worsen my experience with Octupus, every time I had to turn my guns would quiet for the duration. That is fixable (regarding Mogami, I will save up to points to make the turrets turn faster.). so, Hindenburg is it worth the bother? thank you.

Well, I don't know where to put this. It's not greatest achievement from today and I don't feel particular nasty/bad towards this team. From my point of view, almost a Kraken and almost a Victory, we lost by 1 point at the last second. 20200411_140043_PASC108-Baltimore-1944_23_Shards.wowsreplay Ohhh, how does it stings. 1 point at the last second, 1 point . instead of going from 999 it went downwards just while it ended. We had this, we had this. I don't mind losing and being outplayed but... we had this.

oh, I was caught up by your second paragraph. But you know what? I didn't pick IFHE in many of my light cruisers, I want to be sure Nurnberg it's not going to have IFHE, never did, and with the IFHE nerf , it's guns feels like DD guns vs t8 BBs, do the same damage as dds guns. But it compensates with volume of fire (fast ROF) and if you live long enough, if you shoot enough times, you can still have 11 or 15 fires per game. Freeing 4 points, it means you can do more in other fields

All my 19 point captains are in t6 and t7. Shchors, Budyonny, Bayern and Nurnberg, more will follow, it's the tiers that I play the most. Chapa had a 4 point captain, I finished Donskoy with a 12 point captain ( same captain as the chapa), Moskva has a 3 or 4 point captain. I Think a 3 point captain is the minimum, the rest can be mitigated with the consumables. It's not a build, it's far from good or perfect but works when you have a clock ticking down to get a ship. Regarding playing with food.... Not bad for a stock Roon with a 3 point captain, hey? But you are right, after the IFHE nerf I started the RNBB line just to keep my food hot

What I've found out it's a bit different. 1 - the Hippers can tank 380 mm shells in the nose, but to bypass that a BB has to do a single thing, change from AP to HE shells until the Hippers are close enough to torp distance , to torp, the Hipper has to "open the guard" and by that time will be in the last legs, then the BB can wait for that moment to shoot AP and blast what remains to another map, or can shoot HE and break the torp launchers. And things get worse if that BB has support from other ships. Torps are there but they aren't an offensive weapon. 2 - Baltimore has the same nose, it can tank 380 mm, has more guns, shoots faster, has higher fire change and can hit harder

It's too early to say anything but thanks to you @Bics93 I went to check it up (i'm not familiar with high tier upgrades ) And I risked it in random with a stock Roon with a 3 point captain and after 2 battles (with flags) I have the guns + the consumable = 9.2 reload time. Which will bring the ship more in the confy zone. @Cambera_1 The first battle was bad but the second was ok, the difference was in the consumables , I forgot. And I ended up with a 7 point captain... in a ship somewhat similar to Nurnberg. @Panocek @DFens_666 Pens are as good as citadels and full pens can be as devastating as citadels. I'll take that. Hipper was very underwhelming most of the times and by the time I unlocked Roon I was second guessing myself about going to the t10. I will carry on thank you all.

Both of them. HE - fire chance it's not great nor HE damage. AP - they shatter and bounces a lot. I kept shooting HE because it's more consistent, especially after I saw some Flamu vids, in one of them he said German AP it's picky about angles, the target must be dead flat broadside to the shooter but overall, all or almost all CCs says the same thing. The games where I did the most were almost HE or Full HE, so, as far as I know Flamu advice isn't wrong. Survivability... perhaps but it cannot sustain for long periods of times, the adversary only needs to have more ROF and a decent fire chance to win every time. It's like Hipper got stuck before the fire duration nerf for cruisers. I don't know if it's because i'm playing BBs and cruisers with heal, Donskoy, Moskva, e.g. or what ,but I do not recall having such hard time with my CLs. Hope? I will most definitely check that. @Humorpalanta Calm down, i'm asking because I don't know it yet. That's excitement. :) but... @MadBadDave That's not my experience, so far, Baltimore it's more comfortable ship to be in than the Hippers. But that's my main doubt, lack of hard hitting guns. French CAs... I don't know... I don't even have a captain in my Algerie and I don't like CM @Panocek But maybe with a better reload and more guns that will be mitigated.

more space mambo jambo. Great!!! Normally things are well done, visually speaking ,but space things never were one of them. Space battles was like sailing in a dark surface of a mirror.

that happens to me too. After a while I jerk the mouse and the armoury kicks in.

How the saying goes? "The team with the most Colorado will be defeated" Well, it's not just Colorados.

I spent almost 3 million credits in the bundle I unlocked all but one, the German DD, Z-39 I believed. and only played a couple. Ships that I liked Lenin - 3 salvos = 100 k, a WTF ship, Next time i'll brawl a bb at a time not 2 in the same go. Very nimble Alabama - It's like Hulk, can smash everything it touches. Inconclusive testing. Graf Spee - I don't know if it's because it came along after Lenin and Alabama but the guns felt like pea shooters, I didn't get any citadels in BBs. :( Ships that I didn't like. Lazo - A Shchors/chapayev with low ROT comparable with CAs ROT and with a range/guns that nullifies the advantage of extended range with fast shells I have Shchors and I have the worse Shchors ( Chapayev) and i don't see the point of having Lazo.

So... apart from Massa and Georgia Which silver and gold US BB do you recommend?

@nambr9 That's nothing, in some days, what you shown it's only an appetizer before entire rows filed with defeats, with sprinkles of lonely victories appear in your screen. Play which ship you like, Do you feel playing Zao? Then play the Zao. Just don't be to hard with yourself, don't forget that we are in euro dds part, every dog and it's mother are going to battle with smokeless DDs doing exactly that, building defeats for teams, playing with other players WR like if they were rag dolls in a mouth of a dog. Praying to RN Gesus? No wonder you are in the gutter. Pray to the Church of Potato, They are like Gods. They are everlasting and they are out of our reach, they reign over us and their power it's Absolut. Now, more serious. try again today, it might be better.

This ship is very polarizing, it has a huge potential I can do great or I can do horrible bad, I only wished the reload was shorter Maybe the answer it's in Mainz. The game started, and both flanks locked together I was able to do DOT at the front lines Do you want to guess how much Hp I had left at the end of the game?

they were permabanned for pulling out? or for cheating? what a crazy [edited]cheat

As we say in my Country "There's more than one way to skin a rabbit" you can lock your aim with your mouse button and firing while evading . You don't have to see it all the time. Let's drop the paper for a minute If Mainz can have the same amount of shells in the air than a broadsiding Hipper, Eugen or Donskoy with half of it's guns. That was one of my main source of frustration with Donskoy, the follow up salvos into dds From 152 mm russians guns to Eugen (8 sec vs 13 sec) there's 5 second difference, you can almost put a Nurnberg into the mix, that's almost 9 extra shells in a single salvo you shoot From 152 mm Russians guns to 180 mm Russians guns (8 seconds vs 12 seconds), that's almost 4.5 extra shells in every salvo. Now From 150 mm to Eugen that's more than the double, it's like having 2 Nurnberg and a extra Nurnberg's turret vs 1 Eugen in a single salvo. slightly less vs a Hipper, almost 2 Nurnberg in every salvo (6 sec + 6 sec vs 11.5 sec) In Donskoy case it's like 2 Nurnbergs. It's like you said, this isn't as linear as it seems , you can't be broadsiding for the entire game and other things can happen but it's nice to have that option open. so, 12 to 24 shells in the air vs 4 to 8 in a single salvo (German vs German) 12 to 24 shells in the air vs 6 to 12 in a single salvo (vs Donskoy) a slightly edge over chapayev … Look at the time I have to go do something... More than... it is a CA or a CL? How it will stand vs a CA or a BB? I think the real question is Where Mainz stand among other CLs?