Butterdoll

yeap, you are. Well, against facts there's no arguments. Just one more thing, just for closure and curiosity. About your screenshot of the 103 planes lost. I imagine that losses were against the entire red fleet, but, do you mind to share which ships did the Lion share of those losses?

Then i must be lucky because i only shot down 2 poster boys (fighters) 11 bombers and 5 strike planes (in this case) but it's like i said i need to pay more attention in the future before i commit to a build. IFHE rework hurt my fleet of 67 ships most of which are CLs at this time Nurnberg is my only CL that i decided to not go for IFHE, due to the special multiplicate values, i don't mind the bounces and shatters on t8 BBs as long i get the fires going, and i'm able to get roughly the same amount of fires as before. All the others are still in testing because of the mix results I've been getting. This Buddy example i posted, i only got 5 fires instead of the usual 11/13 without IFHE rework, if this trends continues i might as well go for IFHE or something else. But in what? No heals, so no SI, no SE .155 or 152 mm guns, it's a cruiser, so no secondaries, i use secondaries as my main guns. Torps? i already have suicide torps , don't need even more suicidal torps, already is a specialized dd hunter with hydro and RPF and concealment, but the DD numbers are dwindling like never before and half of those are now stupid smokeless dds (not the players but the concept of smokeless, armed with tiny steel goldfishes, on top of that) or one minute man dds (brits). Ruining completely the Hunt part. DDs in our team put themselves in a tiny, tiny bubble of smoke, and stay there waiting for i don't know what (in most cases). Forget the Hunt part thing, there are games with no dds at all, for crying out loud. The captain of Budyonny is a fully 19 point captain as well as the Shchors captain as Nurnberg's and Bayern's are I have 4 19 points captains, 3 of which are merrily ( as in merry) using only 15/16 points for a while now. I thought why not AA?

I went to see, and this is what i have at the moment (but i will pay more attention in the future) this it's from Budyonny, it was lousy at AA, i could spent 20 minutes in a battle and only shoot down 3 or 4 planes, literally 3 or 4 planes at most, now... So, basically you are saying, now as the planes reserves are much larger , so they scaled up the planes kills but the crap remains the same, in this case in particular the 18 plane kills are the new 3 or 4 that used to happen (3 or 4 plane kills in RTS cv time = 18 plane kills in rework cv time)

Just saying @ElectricEliminator this And this Are essential the same answer. Guess you jumped the gun with this little gem here. But i also add the following. How many fires do you get in average per match? If you are happy, don't change it because you are losing 50% of fire change with IFHE. If you are not happy, change it Basing in CC videos about the sprint 1vs1 A full sec build Tirpz can deal up to 40k or 50 k with sec. alone But that's in a 1 vs 1 not in a normal rank/Sprint or random environment You'll be the judge

I beg to differ with that statement (what's in bold) Overall, the post cv rework AA sucks big time, that's a given and i fully agree with what you wrote but. The Hail Mary is 90% or 80% of the times you face a potato cv player, in those cases normally happens three things, (according to my experience) 1 - you clean the skies (while others ships have to chew up the planes for a little while , Balti has this "invisible hand" that can remove them completely from the skies, one second you have 0, the next one you bagged 6, 7 planes, and that can save a dd) 2 - Has sufficient fire power to mess up the cv drops which come very handy when you are stationary or at very low speeds (it can save you) 3- It can be a blessing or a curse but, normally, is after the first encounter, the cv tends to leave Balti alone, allowing dds a safe passage if they decide to tag along with a Balti. In this brave post cv rework new world i think it's a success and with 203's, i don't need IFHE,, no heals, it's a no brainer, full AA build, i have a 12 point captain at the moment , but all my 19 point captains are pilling up elite XP for him, yeah, especially after RUCLs weakened a lot at t8 when compared with t6 or t7, i found my next Budyonny, i already unlocked Buffalo but i will keep playing this American beauty. It will be worth because you encounter fewer cv Unicoms than potatoes. And ofc i will not shoot down + 40 or + 60 planes like in the old days but i also felt in all games i had with Balti that i could shoot down a lot more planes than i was if only the cv continued to feed me planes, which never happen. Plus Now, ships that used to be very bad AA ships (3 or 4 planes at most) are shooting up to 15 or 22, non of them are AA specced. But got me thinking that perhaps, if there were more AA builds, the cvs would not be as great as they are now, And with the IFHE rework there could be a lot of 4 points hanging around. In a game where i was focused down by a cv in my Nurnberg (one of the bad AA ships) i was surprised by the end of the game, i had bagged almost 30 planes. No heals, i wont put IFHE on it , my Nurnberg is already specialized for dd hunting (Hydro, RPF, 6 seconds reload guns) i have 4 or 5 points left, perhaps... I remember reading plenty of posts where cv unicoms said that they didn't needed fighter squadrons to deplane the other cv , they used to deplane bad cv players only with baiting, using the surface fleet. Were they lying? They used to laughed at (201?) builds ( air supremacy builds, with an additional fighter squadron and with less one bomber squadron) Back then, fighters were in large demand and in short supply. In fact, when i started with cvs my only goal was to deplane the other cv, my fighters were my most precious asset i used the bombers for the baiting and spotting (cannon fodder if need it , i protected them to a certain extend) and as a general rule, normally i only started to do damage after the other cv was deplaned if i had any bombers left. You may disagree but this would not neutralized both cvs, the one that was not deplaned could spot for the fleet, but that's from a surface ship player perspective Bouge fighters could stay in the air with ammo for the entire battle, IJNs ones no, they had to cycle , that's the main reason i always prefer US cvs over IJN cvs. Ranger not so much, i used to abuse of the strafing mechanics , my fighters had to cycle a lot Who? me believing in that? (what's in bold) No, the opposite, i only play cvs nowadays for the spotting missions, they took my bogue away from me along with my fighters planes.

Not good enough reason IMO. I think it's 6 months until they appear again. I'm waiting for Flint

Stage 5 , yeah. Now you. Sing. Odin guard our ships, our axes, spears and swords Guide us through storms and wind And in brutal Warrrrrrrrr.

Yes, but don't forget that not all ships were good at AAing . There were plenty of ships capable of shooting down only a couple of planes per battle, you could drop them making mistakes and so on and the results could be devastating for the ships i liked some ships that were weak in AA and my best bet was to dodge because i couldn't expect nothing from the AA I don't know, now the torps do less damage almost tickles you can eat more of them before if you eat 3 or 4 was game over ,you were done, back to port or hanging to your remaining XP out of commission, you couldn't do anything else

That's true. But what is also true, in most cases a squadron could deny a portion of the map to a entire flank because nobody wanted to advance and normally was the flank without air cover without spotting, normally the cv picked a side and stuck with it. Normally, the side that managed to punch throw was the side with air cover and if we didn't heard at minute 5 or minute 8 mark, I'm out of planes, the other side when it wasn't destroyed, often, ended up kitting away, with the dd if it was a dd there, sinking or sunk Before cv players wasted fighters to spot and to bait and safe the useless, then and now, bombers to deal damage Basically was what i said ,you couldn't pop up your denf AA at the first sign of planes you had to wait and then you had to take easy because planes could came back before your Denf AA was ready again. Personally i reach a point where i only poped up my denf AA if there were torp planes incoming i would take damage from the others Not All, but it could work against some AA ships, if they were alone and if they were bottom tier especially with Denf AA in cooldown. The cv would pay a price but he could do it. I'm not talking about timespan , or cooldown or DOT. I'm talking about dodging 12 or more torps at the same time, was difficult and not always doable, was just back to Port . You can say that again. back then flood damage ticked more and for longer, being caught with your pants down (RP in cooldown) was a death sentence. I only acquired my Balti after the rework and it's one of my stealthiest ship. maybe not the best example, they are others AA before was far better before but that ship has sailed, Balti still is good at AA it does the job, it can take off the sky those dreadful planes in a moment notice. Funny thing Ships that used to shot down 3 or 4 planes in a battle before are now capable of shooting down 15 or 22 but Balti remains better because it can make it faster. Maybe we are forced to reconsideration what is a good AA or a bad AA Now tell us. How many fighter squadrons do you needed to deplane a bad cv player?

Before the rework a plane always detected other ships first and if he (cv player) wanted it could do it without his planes get detected and you could perma spot whoever you wanted plus the planes also detected torps. The AA was an entire different thing but you had to managed your AA. Because : - the cv player could control several squadrons at the same time , he could bait your denf AA with figthers and then when your denf AA was in cooldown he could attack you with bombs and torps, you had to wait a bit before you pop up tour denf AA but not too long - Or he simply could stack the attack (using all squadrons and focus in one ship in a single strike). - he could deplane the other cv with fighters or simply bait the other planes into AA of other ships - he could launch 6 or 7 torps in each wave he sent to a ship (and those torps used to hurt like hell) and if he had two torp squadrons he could cross drop you in a deadly X difficult to get out of - he could play around with fires and flood or flood and fires (remember back then if you flood with RP in cooldown you were automatically dead) cvs, RTS cvs, rework cvs were always a pain to deal with. Either cv type if he wanted you killed he would do it. One of the few things that was nerfed was the Spotting. Now, planes can't spot torps, and ships spots the planes first, long before the planes spot the ships and i can tell you, when my Baltimore gets spotted the planes already are under fire. Before with a single squadron you could light up half of the map for your team. Ask the cv Unicoms around here how many fighter squadrons they needed to deplane a bad cv player. to see how one sided a battle could be.

Spotting was nerfed with the rework

I can say for sure after two burned/burnt? outs that I'm not either. What i said about some well known subjects was said in frustration but sincere and i still am behind what i said, normally about changes and gameplay and just before the breaking point...but you seemed too damn certain of WG intends Using your words, Comparing WG to Umbrella Corp. (Not by you but by the conspiracy adepts AKA tinfoil users), it's too strong . I would say, WG it's too much cheeky, at most, in your face cheeky, without shame cheeky most of the times... and for the top of my head i can name three incidents. - Release of the German dds (Before my time, but i saw the CC videos asking for forgiveness to the community, the ships that they tried, reviewed and endorsed were not the ships that came out) - Graf Zeppelin (basically the same thing but with an expensive price tag) - PR event (wtf was that for?) completely unnecessary, look at Odin event ,do you see any stress around that ship?. WG it's not evil, just cumbersome with it's last minute changes on top of the knee very close to the deadlines leaving the staff scrambling for some kind of damage control that may be disastrous. A 240 euro boat meant for unemployed people and disabled people - came on, that was priceless . WG staff took the sweet time to react somewhat and roughly in the way of accordingly but the damage was already done by that time, not WG staff fault, by the way. My main source of information it's this forum and i believed in @DFens_666 because 2 things: i didn't found it strange, because of German DDs, Graf Zeppelin, PR event and others i wasn't in the context - so, i was not inside the joke. TLDR: I can imagine why a thing gets bitter but i don't know why they (whoever may be) stay too long in the bitter thing, be after a while yes.

WTF??????? Was what i thought at my lunch break when i read this. I didn't read the rest. Was like a grenade exploded near my ears and all i heard was that buzzing sound. There's in the context , around the context and completely out of context. I don't have time to watch live streams , i see some videos on youtube when i'm not playing. but that's it. Yeah, you had me @DFens_666, i completely felt for it. I think it's not that hard to understand. Many of those players have thousands of battles, a lot went into it, time, money, and so on... for years. you don't cut off a thing like that in a blink of an eye or that easily. I bet you that you have some complains to make, i don't believe everything is nice and dandy for you, certainly you do have some preferences how the game was and how the game is now. And it's not if you adapted or not. The only difference is some people take it harder than others. Today i was thinking about the game and forum landscape, i joined up in 2017 and a lot has changed since then a lot of new faces and few and fewer of the faces at that time, i remember when the forum had a pony infestation , where they are now? you hardly see them, some other vets only do co-op nowadays and so on

i managed to make Langley work.... for a couple of games. But Hosho i never did manage. with Langley i could make a few successful runs but with Hosho ... never, none. To this day i don't understand the Hosho reputation

The one and only. It's not one of my go to ships only because it's a t4. Kuma.

Feel free to give me your feedback (i saw your conversation with @Inappropriate_noob) My question is why go for any of the three instead of Gneisenau?

Oh no, I got in the RNBB line just for that. Back in the day i didn't care less about RNBBs but with the IFHE nerf, all changed . It's a good thing that AP doesn't work that well because the intend it's to keep HE spamming the others BBs, and only for that i started to like RNBBs. Conqueror all the way. And until i reach it i hope i burn to a crisp as many BBs as i can along the way. Especially IJN ones. WG didn't screw the line over, it gave us ( CLs mains) the perfect tool to resume what we always did, HE spamming. @WWDragon thank you very much. For your extensive explanation. Back in the day it was the t5 german BB who got the most sigma of the entire line. (2.0) So, basically you are saying there's no reason to me to acquire either of the two ships Odin or Agir because they are inferior to Gneisenau (forget the Scharnhorst for a moment). Gneisenau can fight other BBs while the other two are only cruiser killers and they could assume a support role at most when taking a BB down. The slightly larger volume of fire won't compensate the smaller gun calibre, as it happens with Lyon, rigth?

Was... not anymore, now it's a beast. (for what i've heard)

Yeah, the problem isn't in the player base or in WG , i just don't know about WH40K. Here, I'm throwing some clay 1 - In the nostalgic department i have little hope, i doubt that the majority of the player base remembers the 90's games. Wing commander , Warcraft (the old Warcraft, the strategy game ) as examples 2- Battlestar Galactica (2004) we could have Cylons commanders, like Caprica Six, Dianna and human commanders like, Colonel Tigh, Kath, Starbuck, Apollo, Admiral Cain ships, Cylons and so on. WG could expand it's own Universe bringing more ships like Syvatozar or Magnum-S or IGOR, we only have 6 ships in total you could do more ships, more skins, more story we know so little about them, where they came from and so on and they are awesome. Perhaps It could became relatively cheap for you and you could capitalized more, of all the problems WG has, the art department/developers team isn't one of them. And from my experience they are pretty dam good.

because, first of all i know Gneisenau and i don't know Scharnhorst. second, i think Gneisenau it's more suitable for a comparison, after all, why go for any of the three instead of Gneisenau? like you said, Gneise is under gunned and gets to be bottom tier a lot of the times

I'm starting to get confused. Odin - Battleship with 305's Agir - Cruiser with 305's with nerfed german BB secondaries Siefried - cruiser with 380's right? Let's stop talking about Scharnhorst for a moment and replace it with Gneisenau as a benchmark

well, unlike Smolensk or JB, Neustrachimy never was a popular ship, i think it was among the least wanted ship by players, never was a big selling point, maybe has something do do with that. And unlike Smolensk and JB that were removed for being too popular (once i was in a battle where out of 24 ships, 14 were JB) Neutrachimy was removed for not being popular at all. That i don't understand. Before black and Flint were the s hit. Black, a predator of dds and stuff (just see the videos) The last video i saw (i think is from Flamu) Black has a boring gameplay with very slow torps. I couldn't care less about what they say, when Flint show up again i will get one for myself.

i think it was removed along with black and flint. most probably it wont come back in 6 months like black and Flint , those two will be coal ships

That's because you set a smoke screen, ( you cannot see into a smoke screens or see outside a smoke screen) That happened because. you blocked your team mates sights with your smoke or there isn't any teammates with a direct and unobstructed line of sight to your target so, once your smokescreen starts to deploy you lose vision of your target . All german dds have hydro that will give you a 6km warning about ships and torps. proxy spotted it's around 2 km. you have to make sure your smokescreen doesn't block your team mates vision and/or there is more ships of your team with a direct line of sight to your target. make sure the ships that you targeted are inside your main guns range and the target will be in your torps range then and only then you smoke up and when you do activate hydro If you want to creep in or to get close to a smoke screen, don't shoot until you are at 6km of the smoke then activate the hydro and dislodge the other DD (german dds are a good contester of caps and a good smokescreen hijackers) If you see a French dd or a german dd or EU dd or a CL towards you and then you stop seeing them for a long time because you smoked up, they are coming for you, they are creeping in to your position, Hydro can be your best friend and the other guy best friend. Make sure you know each ship shoot in smoke penalty that you play

Epicenter grew on me, i like it.