Butterdoll

Just finished a domination battle, no cv, I was bottom tier with my budyonni, at a certain point a t8 Japanese dd got in my cap, the cap that I assisted, mine cap, we duel for a bit, you know, the heat of the battle and stuff I didn't notice much, I didn't eat a single torp, he did, had a taste of his own medicine eheheh. We were that close from one to another, (was very exciting, and rewarding even if I had loose, witch I didn't) but that's not my point. stay on track, stay on track... We only exchange gun fire. After all was just a dd... well, after that duel my budionny was wrecked, from green to +-8k hp took so much damage as I would if I was tanking against a bb or two (one at a time). Similar thing happen to me in my Algerie against a t9 Russian dd, a time ago. My point isn't mm or anything. But about the dd thing, they aren't as hopeless as they want us to believe they are. And most of times they have the upper hand that guy made a choice, t8 vs t6, and choose to take on a cruiser (and with all that rocks he had the surprise element), and almost win. things aren't so cleaned cut as they seem to be.

I think dd's have more than just range, manoeuvrability, speed and smoke on their side, granted, that more is pure situational and occasional. (and from what I've seen from my own planes, not much, my fighter can't do nothing but be shot down and the spotter plane can spot but even a dd can put him down) cvs as other ships can choose what's the best way to go , but there are those ships that are expected to perform in a particular way (not just cvs). I don't know with how many planes in the hangar a average cv players sinks with, and i was in a lot of battles where the cv player said, no more planes, guys in mid battle. Don't know if he's done anything worth notice/had time for or just wasted planes. (in those cases). either way as I said it was an attempt. To give cvs more flexibility.

Other example like this one. How I love this. Did you now that the Cleveland without the AA consumable have pretty bad AA? Especially if the red cv sends all that he has. Either way that Cleveland did it's job. All because he's a Cleveland. Yes, I know all Cleveland are AA monsters, it's very risky you'll be loosing a lot of planes and achieve nothing, but in the same time, you never know you might get a surprise now and then and you still lose because you (you as in general, by the way) sent a lot more planes than it was needed it. And that it's exactly my point . Same goes for the others AA ships. there's always a trade but in this case always benefits the AA ships because they are what they are. Can relate with that

thanks to all of you that spent your time with me. when i started this thread I was so frustrated with the god dammed cvs. Not for not supporting me but for the ignored tactical opportunities. At least at my eyes. (at least a negative as an answer if they don't agree or choose not to. at least that) I disagree with you, Thracen, I'm also a cruiser main, and I find the cvs very weak, I'm not talking about alpha damage but about all the rest, they are pathetic. I always found cvs an annoyance at most (not talking top tier or near that), yes they can ruin your day, but then are also bait to displace you or half your team from the real fight. well, spellfire 40... It's not the question of having a pet cv, it's about expecting things that any carrier vessel can do naturally and effortless, but instead those things are in your can't do category/list.? WTF. Exocet6951, pra3y and others. I'm for some time now was thinking to start a cv line, a more strategic and tactical approach, you know. But I came out this topic, some what, disappointed. I've got the impression that cv are here because they got to be, they fill a niche, a gap in the game, if they let it loose we have the devil incarnate if they keep it contained it's manageable. A cv player, plays in a different plain than the rest of us A cv, in fact, all, goes dark? For that amount of time, strangling the resources that much ? (I'm still not talking about top tiers) everyone get's a shot, here's mine now, my attempt to balance the cv. Keeping the same amount of TBs and DBs, but add more fighters squadrons 1 or 2 more, plus 2 single spotters, Nerf the alpha damage for each type of plane, for each wave, but buff (and i mean , a serious buff to) the ROF?( I don't now the aka) I mean nerf the time the planes are grounded, a consumable with combat landings and other for combat lift offs, for example. If a squadron was shoot down another one needs to be in the air. The cv would retain the same alpha damage that has. Include some more game mechanics like ramming in mid air (real life is full of this, fighters that didn't had anymore ammo, and tried to clip the tail of the other fighter or bomber with their propeller or wing, fighters-bombers that tried to unbalanced v-1s with the tip of their wings, etc). Someone said that only a noob cv player goes after a Cleveland or something like that?

the dd was the first to complain about the lemming parade, I was behind him, then a bud pops out, then a Molotov, then I already told, I retreated near the base, couldn't do much with that opposition I got sunk while shooting a Nuremberg (almost got him, the funny part, I did see a lot of shells landing around me and that nuremberg, I thought, it's my team, but no, were from the red team). they were to many. My team was in the upper part of c cap (they stopped there), very shy in the breakthrough, almost one at a time, we were like fishes in a barrel, we just melted away in this one. The only option then was to defend base, they were too close from our base, if the lemmings resumed their parade to the red base they never reach it in time and our cvs would be unprotected and reset the cap with planes wouldn't be an option. Near the end of the battle we still had ships in c cap, not near, in it.

Drop the me, my flank, it's that simple, you've got 2 flanks, right? And the problem with that is that the cv player have to keep an eye on the other cv, and often chooses the flank were are the most ships, right? This battle I did we got outflanked big, could be me or other guy, that's not my point. My point is (as you all been tell me) it's the lack of "elasticity" that the cv has, right? I got it. I got also that a cv can't launch a simple plane, I only said that it could or should because it's a cv, a plane or a squadron, hell it could or should launched them all in one go. it could have more squadrons, it could but it doesn't have it. But even if it could, there's another problem, the reward system that doesn't recognize not much but damage dealed, I get it. So if the team lemmings out to one side, the one's that choose to stay to contest/delay or simply counterattack are left to fend for themselves. I got it. I said in the beginning can be anyone, (cv player). I'm not in that wave of noob team and such, 90% of the games I only use the hotkeys, but came on, a little support now and then, I'm not asking you ( you as in general) to sink a ship or shoot down planes for me or I don't know, just a little spotting (example 1) and disrupt the drop (example 2). When the team goes in lemming mode,who else can give support but the cv? It's harder than I thought, I got it. If someone tries to hold a flank or a flaking manoeuvre, he's by himself. got it. in my two examples the cvs didn't even made a fly by in the flank for the full duration of both battle, so, the red dd's were not in danger, the hydro was just for giving the bb more time to evade incoming torpedoes, my plane only spotted one of them for a brief moment. and a little later went dark and in the other example was my fault that I stumble in the red cv But I guess that makes me selfish and with the better player of the team syndrome, and pet cv stuff, never mind the neglected flank, never mind all the rest.

the limitation are stupid, you could launch 1 squadron or 1 plane, after all you are a cv. I'm not talking for myself, generally I don't say anything to the cv or about the cv, I'm talking about the tactical point of view, knowing about was going on, both flanks and be able to act . other fresh example. (I took this at the start. I was almost AFK, but what I saw was this, my team lemming out (again) to the left , we had not one but two cvs. we all crapped out, I went with the dd, what he saw? A budyonni, a Molotov, then a Nuremberg appear ( at this time I was telling the dd to drop smoke and run) the dd was the first to go. we went dark then more ships appeared (warspite, and other bb and one more cruiser), all my team in the left and the bulk of the red team in my flank. the red circles were where the two cvs ended up, we didn't had a single plane in the air past the red line. only when the red team was already contesting cap they sent the planes. How's this being selfish? Or be the most important player? we were steam rolled by the reds. Note: I did not say a word in chat to the cvs, only to the dd, and requesting support to defend base. p.s.- I always thought that the cv class was like the cavalry, that it could released some pressure when needed, to have a disrupted role, to spread chaos or panic to the red ships, but apparently I'm wrong.

So, you are saying what? A cv it's a disguised bb? 1 minute per "salvo"? No, I didn't knew that. But that could explain why they ask so often, to attack enemy planes. they aren't ready.

because through this topic the answer seems clear to me. As you all have being saying, cv have limitations, and I add, stupid ones. So, cv players... So, all this time that we (surface fleet) expect some help here and there through out the game, you can't because you don't have any planes to spare because others problems that you are dealing with. you are limited to what? 3/4 squadrons? you've got a carrier vessel, full of planes and you can't send a single one, neither can muster one last squadron or few planes to support an last minute or spontaneous action or for self defence not even to disrupt a fly. In short, we are expecting the cavalry but the regiment don't have enough saddles for the horses. .

it's a question to cv players, what you can do in that situation?

What you can do? your team lemming out to one side or it's stuck in a cap, there's a small or very small group of ships trying a flaking manoeuvre (granted, very dangerous manoeuvre) to try to relieve some pressure or diverting some red ships to other place. that's few ships are the only presence of your team in that sector, they could be kitting (bad news) or advancing. (could be overstretching). the question is not what you'll do. you will hammer to the bitter hand that sector. Don't have replay, but I spend the all time requesting air support, with no answer, we went to a cap to the other cap always asking for support, spent my two hydro charges. not time enough?

Now let me ask you all, cv players, a question. It's my turn. your team lemming out to one side or it's stuck in a cap, there's a small or very small group of ships trying a flaking manoeuvre (granted, very dangerous manoeuvre) to try to relieve some pressure or diverting some red ships to other place. that's few ships are the only presence of your team in that sector, they could be kitting (bad news) or advancing. (could be overstretching). the question is not what you'll do. you will hammer to the bitter hand that sector. What you can do?

that's explains a lot, once with my bb I went alone to fetch a Kaga in distress managed to escort him back to safety at my expense, the red cv focus on me and the kaga didn't sent one plane of the 85? and he was right there, beside me. I manage to sink a ship, stopped the red push at c (fault line), maybe they weren't expecting an aggressive bb but I succumbed by torpedoes. I was so frustrated with that kaga. Not even a plane. I know, I know, you just told me. but that's don't change how i felt. Not even a single plane of the 75, 85?

I missed understood. sry. as they say in battle.

I don't disagree what your saying, probably is. But it's the most strategically one also, right? I know that you have to deal with what the other cv's doing? But every battle in history is about knowing what's going around. Austerlitz, flank batting for example. And in here you lose a flank, 90% is defeat.

? I'm not even a cv player.

yeah, AA not all are clevelands, you know. And try to AA your way out while being the cv's main focus with half of your AA taken out. Good luck with that.

rag tag squadron as in an incomplete squadron, a shot out squadron of some kind as in fighters or bombers, something up there that can be disruptive. bombers have rear gunners, right? Well, it's true I never did a battle with a cv. but in both examples the cv had time enough to protect us, in the first example I spent two hydro charges (3 minutes) plus cool down time, my plane (spotting or fighter) only fly for 1:30 minutes and I can't put him where I want and then goes dark for 5 minutes. So, please, don't speak in expecting teleporting planes. In the second example he had less time, but enough time nonetheless. But yeah, ok, I got it. you pass your point across. 50, 70, 80 planes and you can't put them in good use. you have all those planes and can't launch a single one, you can't do a lot of things, I get it. But cvs are still frustrating. I don't care, if and when I start the cv line, my first will be AS, I don't care about damage, that's the surface fleet's job. I know, I know it is considered a bad thing but you know what? F uck it, will be the Mariana's turkey shoot one way or another.

*edit the last bb, unless the cv was already spotted and the cruiser is already in pursuit, then again if he's going to be out of the fight ,screw it. (don't like to chase cvs or when half of my team chase the cv and end to be out of the fight). A bb shouldn't chase a dd, only if he's the one that's being chased. I don't know. I would support the dd if he couldn't take care of the float plane by himself, or the 3 ships pushing cap, but all depends of the situation. The way I see it, I haven't to shoot down any planes, the only thing I have to do is manage to disrupt the drop, to harass, for the drop go wide. yeah, if I had not time to rearm and resupply is what I would do. support the 3 ships pushing cap.

I'm a cruiser main, main as +- 90%. Main as all but 2 ships are cruisers. And what's that have to do with anything? I know that every class have their problems, I know that every class have to deal with something. I don't consider myself like a player that's is always crapping on cvs ( I usually crap over bbs), I tend to leave cvs alone, hell, as I said I avoid them. And I'm not like me, me, me, me. I understand there's a bigger picture than me to the cv player. All examples I given were about not knowing what's going in the flanks while under fire (first example) to be outflanked is defeat. As a cruiser player, we have to protect the dds, tank damage (because bb's are to fragile to do that, or doing some tourism, most of the times bbs are behind cruisers, unbelievable), fight bbs (because, you know, bb's), protect cvs against that dd or cruiser or bb, supporting bbs, etc, etc. But came on, spot the flanks, support flanking manoeuvres . some help over here. One plane, or a ragtag squadron of something to simple disrupt the drop would suffice, it's all I ask. I tend to expect a lot of more of my fellow cruisers than anyone else, sometimes I turn to cvs, and asking to a bb it's a crap shot, it's like lottery.

I'm not expecting nothing that isn't reasonable Forlorn. I'm think to start a cv line, Naesil. Not the hand of god, spotting it's not Divine work, or even difficult, if your team have presence there, support it, that's it.

No, Long story short, I'm expecting cvs (and all the others) to be aware of what's happening in both flanks, that's it. A cv have how many planes? I only asked for one, one single plane to spot, one not 4 or 5. My plane only goes so far , the cv plane goes on for unlimited time. In my second example both cv could be in another battle for them. My cv completed ignored the right flank, the red cv didn't got situation awareness, if he did, wouldn't be there just outside C.

thank you, I was searching for a thing like this.

I agree to disagree. that can be applied some tiers later, you know, you only have stupid manoeuvres to say. well, how about coward bb that should be driving the love boat, not a warship, dds that go in a suicide run to cap or simply don't cap ( WTF it's a capture point anyway?) instead of supporting the cruisers that are overwhelmed by the love boat worshipers, how about those lemmings that go in a flock to one side of the map letting the flank open. Those gives you a win? At least no one cares about that in t1. Once I had a battle against a div of Belfast, I did warn my team, they knew it already, but they only did something after I was engaging them I did heavy damage to one of them, yes, i got sunk by them. Didn't do a lot of damage, but you know what I did? I manage to minimize their impact in the battle, just by being disruptive they got sunk and didn't farm much. I'm no better than the next one, the difference, I address the problem, I acted, I was the first when nobody else wanted to be the first.