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HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

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  1. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    You already proved your an EDIT. go to school learn to read get a history book double check it with the war diplomatic and war archives . And come with some real facts to back up your claims , ah that is the problem .your nothing more EDIT . Show me your so called claims , little aids patient or are you afraid that people see your nothing more than a little poser with absolute no historical knowledge. Show your arguments .
  2. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    Are you playing dumb or just stupid ? A little hint for you get a janes fighting ships book ship basics for starters , to make it easy for your self and start counting sub classes of each ship. and dont tell me that doesnt count as the perth is one of those sub class cruisers and so are many permium ships in other techtrees.. their are many other ships that are based of a main design for a class and got alterd to create subclasses of that design. meaning there is nothing to proof Just your inabilaty or to lazy to read and back up your claims of imposiblity . But that is understandble as so called Beta testers always are the so called i know it all i know it better attitude.. and that is funny as any one that is early with backing a program or game is automaticly a beta backer and tester. As i have some time over in a month time i will create a tree just to show how dumb your statements are.
  3. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    My apologies for sounding like a rant but i take history and facts verry seriously. The abda command was still operating only from cylon and changed the name for Obvious reasons nothing more nothing less. And copy pasting is for the ones that dont take the effort to click links so examples would be nessesary to paint the picture. as enough dds cruisers and battleship types. and even aircraft cariers. As these ships all had great historic value and most got sunk . in the south east asian theatre. Most ships that hunted the bismarck and graf spee where sunk in that area or where involved in other importend events. Cooperation between british dutch and australians where already beeing realised . in 1940 1941. so did the americans in 1941 remnants of the american fleet where asigned to the area.
  4. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    do a little more research. will you . making statements that hit nor water nor air. Coppy pasting was an example now go to the library read up on naval history as i cant scan copie every single ship involved during that time from official records . Wikipedia is only a sum of what people knowingly have available . and was an example . Perhaps you should visit the goverment records in the heague , londen and brussels. instead of battering the idea as you know every thing about the pacific indian south north atlantic wars.naval build ups treatys .and scan post them your self. Iam not going to scan post 31.873 pages of ships and naval plans treatys and constuction plan and so on. the ships used in the soutwest indain ocean where sub classes modiefied ship classes that where not available in other tech treees. But as the great navy historian you probably know that already .
  5. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    You miss the point the abda command was a precurser to the later joint south east asian fleets. THere where more battle cuisers battleships cariers destroyers added from australian , bristish , dutch american and even france . . iam not going to post every single ship class etc that i find in the naval war dairys . I left out many ships including ships that where on transit and planned to join the fleet. And there is one thing you might have overlooked as the dutch navy was the 7th largest in the world . did the vlootwet of 1912 1913 get in to effect it would have been the 3rd navy in the world . On the mid tier ships there are enough ships to fill those roles .
  6. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    Here is an idea , a ABDA tech tree , containing ships that fell where asigned or would have been asigened to it before the battle ,and aftermath Links to some of the ships from the different navys. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-British-Dutch-Australian_Command https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_Z https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Fleet#List_of_ships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Pacific_Fleet#Constituent_forces Some iconic ships and special ships where asigined .some already in the game , others like the first british cariers langly the enhanced ilioustrious aircraft cariers indomitable , the saratogo carier the diffrent battle cruisers , and battleships from britain and america. lots of different style cruisers and destroyers.. and could be split in 2 parts early and end of the conflict. including the French aircraft carier. Abda command 1941-1942 American[edit] USS Houston (CA-30) USS Marblehead (CL-12) USS Boise (CL-47) USS Alden (DD-211) USS Barker (DD-213) USS Edwards (DD-265) USS Whipple (DD-217) USS Parrott (DD-218) USS Edsall (DD-219) USS Bulmer (DD-222) USS Stewart (DD-224) USS Pope (DD-225) USS Peary (DD-226) USS Peary (DD-226) USS Pillsbury (DD-227) USS John D. Ford (DD-228) USS Paul Jones (DD-230) USS Asheville (PG-21) USS Tulsa (PG-22) USS Holland (AS-3) USS Canopus (AS-9) USS Otus (ARG-20) USS Langley (CV-1) USS Childs (DD-241) USS Preston USS Heron (AM-10) British[edit] HMS Prince of Wales (53) HMS Repulse (1916) HMS Exeter (68) HMS Dragon (D46) HMS Danae (D44) HMS Durban (D99) HMS Emerald (D66) HMS Electra (H27) HMS Encounter (H10) HMS Express (H61) HMS Isis (D87) HMS Jupiter (F85) HMS Scout HMS Tenedos (H04) HMS Thanet (H29) HMS Stronghold Dutch[edit] HNLMS De Ruyter (1935) HNLMS Tromp (1937) HNLMS Java (1921) HNLMS De Zeven Provinciën (1909) HNLMS Evertsen (1926) HNLMS Kortenaer (1927) HNLMS Piet Hein (1927) HNLMS Van Ghent (1926) HNLMS Banckert (1929) HNLMS Van Nes (1930) HNLMS Witte de With (1928) Australian[edit] HMAS Perth (D29) HMAS Hobart (D63) HMAS Adelaide (1918) HMAS Vendetta (D69) Force Z consisted of the battleship HMS Prince of Wales, the battlecruiser HMS Repulse, and four modern destroyers, the E-class HMS Electra, Express, and Encounter and the J-class HMS Jupiter. For Force Z’s final voyage, the older S-class HMS Tenedos and World War I veteran V-class HMAS Vampire were substituted for the damaged Encounter and Jupiter, which remained in Singapore undergoing repairs.[1] The new aircraft carrier HMS Indomitable was to be included, but ran aground in the Caribbean during working up trials. HMS Hermes was considered as a replacement but this idea was dismissed as Hermes was too slow.[2] British eastern fleet. ist of ships[edit] Main article: List of Eastern Fleet ships During World War II, the British Eastern Fleet included, from time to time, a number of warships from the British Dominions of Australia and New Zealand as well as other Allied nations, such as, France (Free French Navy), the Netherlands, and the United States. Major ships attached to the Eastern Fleet, or where indicated, East Indies Fleet, included: Hermes – Aircraft carrier, sunk 9 April 1942 Unicorn – Aircraft Carrier/Maintenance Carrier in Eastern Fleet 1944, arriving January 1944 Illustrious – Aircraft Carrier in Eastern Fleet 1944, arriving January 1944 Victorious – Aircraft Carrier in Eastern Fleet, arriving July 1944 Indomitable – Aircraft Carrier in Eastern Fleet 1944, arriving July 1944 Renown – Battlecruiser in Eastern Fleet 1944 Queen Elizabeth – Battleship in Eastern Fleet 1944, East Indies Fleet 1945 Valiant – Battleship in Eastern Fleet 1944 Richelieu – French battleship in Eastern Fleet 1944, East Indies Fleet 1945 Howe – Battleship in Eastern Fleet August 1944 – November 1944 Submarines: 2nd Flotilla, of approx eight S class and four T class Submarines: 4th Flotilla Prince of Wales – Battleship, sunk 10 December 1941 Repulse – Battlecruiser, sunk 10 December 1941 Electra – Destroyer, sunk 27 February 1942 Express – Destroyer Cornwall – Cruiser, sunk 5 April 1942 Dorsetshire – Cruiser, sunk 5 April 1942 HMAS Vampire – Australian destroyer, sunk 9 April 1942 Adamant – Submarine Depot Ship Maidstone – Submarine Depot Ship USS Saratoga – American aircraft carrier British pacific fleet. Formidable passing through the Sydney Harbour anti-submarine boom net in 1945. The blackened funnel was the result of the kamikaze attack pictured above, in which a Japaneseaircraft crashed on the flight deck. Order of battle[edit] Ships[edit] The fleet included 6 fleet carriers, 4 light carriers, 2 aircraft maintenance carriers and 9 escort carriers, with a total of more than 750 aircraft, 4 battleships, 11 cruisers, 35 destroyers, 14 frigates, 44 smaller warships, 31 submarines, and 54 large vessels in the fleet train. Fleet carriers Formidable: approximate airgroup 36 Corsairs, 15 Avengers (Flagship 1st Aircraft Carrier Squadron) Illustrious: approximate airgroup 36 Corsairs, 15 Avengers Implacable: 48 Seafire, 21 Avenger, 12 Firefly Indefatigable: 40 Seafire, 18 Avenger, 12 Firefly Indomitable: 39 Hellcats, 21 Avengers Victorious: 36 Corsairs, 15 Avengers, plus Walrus amphibian Light carriers Colossus: 24 Corsairs, 18 Barracudas Glory: 21 Corsairs, 18 Barracudas Venerable: 21 Corsairs, 18 Barracudas Vengeance: 24 Corsairs, 18 Barracudas Maintenance carriers Pioneer Unicorn Escort carriers Arbiter Chaser Fencer Ruler Reaper Slinger Speaker Striker Vindex Battleships Howe (Flagship 1st Battle Squadron) King George V Duke of York arrived in July 1945 Anson arrived in July 1945 Cruisers HMNZS Achilles Argonaut Belfast Bermuda Black Prince Euryalus HMNZS Gambia Newfoundland HMCS Ontario Swiftsure (Flagship 4th Cruiser Squadron) HMCS Uganda Cruiser-minelayers Apollo Ariadne Manxman AA Escort HMCS Prince Robert Destroyers HMCS Algonquin Barfleur Grenville Kempenfelt HMAS Napier HMAS Nepal HMAS Nizam HMAS Norman Quadrant Quality HMAS Queenborough HMAS Quiberon HMAS Quickmatch Teazer Tenacious Termagant Terpsichore Troubridge Tumult Tuscan Tyrian Ulster Ulysses Undaunted Undine Urania Urchin Ursa Wager Wakeful Wessex Whelp Whirlwind Wizard Wrangler
  7. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    Hr.Ms Celebes.and Java class cruiser Mystery partly solved Late 1920s a 3d cruiser was to replace the scrapped would be flagship/ command cruiser Celebes of the Java class licht cruisers As the dutch realised the java class cruisers where outdated plans where made to do major overhauls of the java and Sumatra replacing the 10 single mount guns with 4 twin turrets. at the same time there was need for a 3d cruiser this one called HrMsCelebes was suposed to be a heavy cruiser. (asumption the early designs would be based on the Java class cruisers. as a major refit of these ships already incorporated the 4 twin turrets in their refit designs, and would safe time and development of the Celebes.) Unfortunatly for both the Java class and Celebes the worlds financial system collapsed. The java class would only get a major refit and maintenance for fire control aa defences as 2 licht cruisers of the eendracht class where orderd. the Celebes was hit hard during further designs and specifications, as to safe money the armour , displacement and guns where reduced. To follow up on the Celebes /de ruyter design as heavy cruisers evolution this would be safe to say it had a simular armour protection and thickness of the java class and gun layout as the de ruyter with 3 turrets and 203 mm guns. Or an 8 gun licht cruiser with the same arnour protection as the java class cruisers.. Sources Vlootplan Decker (paper documents) Vlootwet 1923 (paper documents.) http://www.avalanchepress.com/CruiserSquadron.php http://www.navypedia.org/ships/netherlands/nl_cr_de_ruyter.htm http://www.go2war2.nl/artikel/2190/Hr-Ms-De-Ruyter.htm After several false starts, the Dutch States-General authorized a replacement for Celebes in 1930. Originally intended as a heavy cruiser and a suitable flagship, financial structures caused the design to shrink several times and she emerged from the drawing table as a 6,400 ton light cruiser with six 5.9-inch guns. After some changes to hull form and use of lightweight materials, a seventh 5.9-inch gun was added but the new cruiser, named De Ruyter, did not satisfy the navy’s needs. She did boast the sophisticated new Hazemeyer fire-control systems for both her main battery and her anti-aircraft guns. Nevertheless, she served as the Allied flagship in the operations around Java and was lost along with Java at the Battle of the Java Sea after multiple shells hits and one from a Long Lance torpedo fired by the Japanese heavy cruiser Haguro. Ship project history: In 1930, in view of the Japanese fleet power excursion, the parliament of the Netherlands has made a decision about building of third cruiser for service in the East Indies. For economy reasons, she should have displacement less, than Java class cruisers, equal protection with them and 32kts speed. Armament should consist of 6 15cm guns (2 twin mounts aft and 2 single fwd) and 2 twin 105mm AA guns. This decision has undergone to the shattering criticism because of the small dimensions and weak armament. It was offered to finish at an insignificant dimensions enlargement number of guns to 8 150mm or 6 203mm. In 1932 the conciliatory proposal was accepted: at the expense of some hull lengthening and displacement increase seventh main gun has been added. Order has been given out 1/9/1932. It was originally supposed to give to cruiser name Celebes, but at launch she was named De Ruyter, that has caused of renaming of one Admiralen class destroyer. The project was designed by the German-Dutch consortium "Krupp-Germania/IvS" (Ingeenieurkantoor voor Scheepsbouw) and carried a print of the German effect; in particular, thanking tower-shape superstructure outwardly ship very much resembled Deutschland class armoured ships. At building measures were taken for the maximum weight decrease: framing was realised on longitudinal system, armour belt was a hull structural part, welding and aluminium alloys were widely used. Fire control system of Hazemeyer included two directors: fore with a 6m rangefinder on fore superstructure and aft with 4m rangefinder. Abandoning from an antiaircraft artillery of secondary calibre became prominent feature of the project: all antiaircraft arms consisted from 5 twin 40mm/56 Bofors No.3 MGs. Each 40mm mount was equipped by own individual Hazemeyer director with the ballistic calculator, 2m rangefinder and a collimating sight. Aviation equipment included 18.6m Heinkel K8 catapult and two seaplanes Fokker С.XIW, however the hangar was not available. The designed capacity of 66000hp ensured to the ship 32kts speed, but 15% overload (to 76000hp) was short-term supposed, that allowed to reach 33.6kts. After major boilers repairs in 1941 De Ruyter has shown on trials 32.84kts. 2 Curtis cruising geared turbines (6600hp) ensured very great endurance at economic speed. Ship protection: 50mm armoured belt (133x4m) protected a hull between end barbettes and was closed by 30mm bulkheads. Ship ends were protected by 30mm belt with 3m height. Flat 30mm deck was connected with upper edge of the belt. Turrets (and also sheet of single gun) had 100mm faces and 30mm protection from other directions. Late 20s t Vlak na de Eerste Wereldoorlog ging er een golf van pacifisme door de Nederlandse bevolking en de Nederlandse politiek. De verschrikkingen van het wereldwijde conflict hadden zoveel negatieve indrukken achtergelaten dat de roep om ontwapening steeds luider werd. In 1919 werd zelfs door een aantal politieke partijen in Nederland een voorstel gedaan om onder andere de Koninklijke Marine als militaire organisatie in zijn geheel op te heffen. Hier was geen meerderheid voor in de Tweede Kamer maar de toenmalige minister van marine, mr. Ch.J.M. Ruys de Beerenbrouck, kon de afbouw van de twee Java-klasse kruisers, Java en Sumatra, alleen goedgekeurd krijgen door af te zien van de afbouw van een derde schip van deze klasse, de Celebes. De aanbesteding voor nog drie kruisers werd geannuleerd. De bouw van de Celebes werd stilgelegd en de dertig ton rompmateriaal dat al bewerkt was werd gesloopt. In 1922 had een vlootwetcommissie bepaald dat de vloot van de Koninklijke Marine de komende jaren minimaal zou moeten bestaan uit onder andere zes kruisers. In oktober 1923 werd dit vlootwetsontwerp verworpen door de Tweede Kamer. In 1930 werd door de toenmalige minister van Marine, dr. L.N. Deckers, het aanbouwbeleid voor de marine bepaald van 1930 tot 1940. Het zogenaamde Vlootplan Deckers omvatte slechts de helft van het aantal te bouwen eenheden in vergelijking met het in 1922 voorgestelde plan en werd daarom ook wel het “halve minimum” genoemd. Omdat alleen Hr. Ms. Java en Hr. Ms. Sumatra afgebouwd waren ontstond er door het vlootplan van minister Deckers ruimte voor de bouw van een derde kruiser. Er ontstond binnen de marine en de regering een discussie over de gewenste eigenschappen van het nieuwe oorlogsschip. De Koninklijke Marine sprak over een kruiser met een hoofdbewapening van 20cm kanonnen en torpedolanceerbuizen. Om de door de economische crisis zwaar geteisterde staatskas te ontzien stelde minister Deckers zich echter tevreden met een kleiner schip dan de Java en de Sumatra met een primaire bewapening van slechts zes 15cm kanonnen in drie dubbelopstellingen. Zelfs dit bleek budgettair te hoog gegrepen waardoor de bouw van de nieuwe kruiser uitgesteld werd. Inmiddels vonden deskundigen van de marine dat slechts zes kanonnen van 15cm voor de gevechtskracht van een moderne kruiser te gering waren. In 1932 werd een compromis gevonden. Doordat de Celebes voorbestemd was om als vlaggenschip te fungeren zou het schip over accommodatie moeten beschikken voor een eskadercommandant en zijn staf. De nieuwe kruiser zou deze functie als stafschip in moeten gaan vullen. Daarom viel het uiteindelijke ontwerp iets groter uit en ontstond ruimte voor een vierde toren en dus acht 15cm kanonnen. Omdat de bouw van de kruiser politiek nog steeds heel gevoelig lag werd besloten om deze mogelijkheid niet helemaal uit te buiten en nam de marine genoegen met een enkelkanon van 15cm achter een schild. Bovendien werd bezuinigd op de bepantsering en afgezien van een dure torpedolanceerinrichting. Het uiteindelijke ontwerp onder leiding van ingenieur G. `t Hooft, hoofd van het bureau scheepsbouw van defensie, leverde hierdoor een lichte kruiser op die gezien haar afmetingen en toekomstige taken te licht bepantserd en te licht bewapend was. Op 16 september 1933 werd de kiel gelegd van de kruiser op de werf van Wilton Fijenoord te Schiedam en ruim drie jaar later werd het nieuwe schip in dienst gesteld als Hr. Ms. De Ruyter. De torpedobootjager van de Admiralen-klasse De Ruyter werd om deze reden omgedoopt in Hr. Ms. Van Ghent.
  8. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    Did you mean this article ? http://www.navypedia.org/ships/netherlands/nl_cr_de_ruyter.htm Ship project history: In 1930, in view of the Japanese fleet power excursion, the parliament of the Netherlands has made a decision about building of third cruiser for service in the East Indies. For economy reasons, she should have displacement less, than Java class cruisers, equal protection with them and 32kts speed. Armament should consist of 6 15cm guns (2 twin mounts aft and 2 single fwd) and 2 twin 105mm AA guns. This decision has undergone to the shattering criticism because of the small dimensions and weak armament. It was offered to finish at an insignificant dimensions enlargement number of guns to 8 150mm or 6 203mm. In 1932 the conciliatory proposal was accepted: at the expense of some hull lengthening and displacement increase seventh main gun has been added. Order has been given out 1/9/1932. It was originally supposed to give to cruiser name Celebes, but at launch she was named De Ruyter, that has caused of renaming of one Admiralen class destroyer.
  9. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    The development of dutch radar for navy use , in the 1930s this radar would have been fitted to the isaac sweers and 40 mm bofor gun triaxle mounts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_radar#Netherlands Netherlands[edit] Early radio-based detection in the Netherlands was along two independent lines: one a microwave system at the firm Philips and the other a VHF system at a laboratory of the Armed Forces.[52] The Philips Company in Eindhoven, Netherlands, operated Natuurkundig Laboratorium (NatLab) for fundamental research related to its products. NatLab researcher Klaas Posthumus developed a magnetron split into four elements.[53] In developing a communication system using this magnetron, C.H.J.A. Staal was testing the transmission by using parabolic transmitting and receiving antennas set side-by-side, both aimed at a large plate some distance away. To overcome frequency instability of the magnetron, pulse modulation was used. It was found that the plate reflected a strong signal. Recognizing the potential importance of this as a detection device, NatLab arranged a demonstration for the Koninklijke Marine (Royal Netherlands Navy). This was conducted in 1937 across the entrance to the main naval port at Marsdiep. Reflections from sea waves obscured the return from the target ship, but the Navy was sufficiently impressed to initiate sponsorship of the research. In 1939, an improved set was demonstrated at Wijk aan Zee, detecting a vessel at a distance of 3.2 km (2.0 mi). A prototype system was built by Philips, and plans were started by the firm Nederlandse Seintoestellen Fabriek (a Philips subsidiary) for building a chain of warning stations to protect the primary ports. Some field testing of the prototype was conducted, but the project was discontinued when Germany invaded the Netherlands on May 10, 1940. Within the NatLab, however, the work was continued in great secrecy until 1942.[54] During the early 1930s, there were widespread rumours of a “death ray” being developed. The Dutch Parliament set up a Committee for the Applications of Physics in Weaponry under G.J. Elias to examine this potential, but the Committee quickly discounted death rays. The Committee did, however, establish the Laboratorium voor Fysieke Ontwikkeling (LFO, Laboratory for Physical Development), dedicated to supporting the Netherlands Armed Forces. Operating in great secrecy, the LFO opened a facility called the Meetgebouw (Measurements Building) located on the Plain of Waalsdorp. In 1934, J.L.W.C. von Weiler joined the LFO and, with S.G. Gratama, began research on a 1.25-m (240-MHz) communication system to be used in artillery spotting.[55] In 1937, while tests were being conducted on this system, a passing flock of birds disturbed the signal. Realizing that this might be a potential method for detecting aircraft, the Minister of War ordered continuation of the experiments. Weiler and Gratama set about developing a system for directing searchlights and aiming anti-aircraft guns. The experimental “electrical listening device” operated at 70 cm (430 MHz) and used pulsed transmission at an RPF of 10 kHz. A transmit-receive blocking circuit was developed to allow a common antenna. The received signal was displayed on a CR tube with a circular time base. This set was demonstrated to the Army in April 1938 and detected an aircraft at a range of 18 km (11 mi). The set was rejected, however, because it could not withstand the harsh environment of Army combat conditions. The Navy was more receptive. Funding was provided for final development, and Max Staal was added to the team. To maintain secrecy, they divided the development into parts. The transmitter was built at the Delft Technical College and the receiver at the University of Leiden. Ten sets would be assembled under the personal supervision of J.J.A. Schagen van Leeuwen, head of the firm Hazemeijer Fabriek van Signaalapparaten. The prototype had a peak-power of 1 kW, and used a pulse length of 2 to 3 μs with a 10- to 20 kHz PRF. The receiver was a super-heterodyne type using Acorn tubes and a 6 MHz IF stage. The antenna consisted of 4 rows of 16 half-wave dipoles backed by a 3- by 3-meter mesh screen. The operator used a bicycle-type drive to rotate the antenna, and the elevation could be changed using a hand crank.[56] Several sets were completed, and one was put into operation on the Malieveld in The Hague just before the Netherlands fell to Germany in May 1940. The set worked well, spotting enemy aircraft during the first days of fighting. To prevent capture, operating units and plans for the system were destroyed. Von Weiler and Max Staal fled to England aboard one of the last ships able to leave, carrying two disassembled sets with them. Later, Gratama and van Leeuwen also escaped to England.
  10. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    Some thing interesting for the Callenburg class destroyer ZH 1 We know of the triaxle twin 40 mm bofor mountings but it seems that there was an alternate version for these ships a 120 mm version of a triaxle hazemeyer mounting. This would indeed bring some thing special to the ex callenburg. Here is a discription how the triaxle hazemeyer mounts worked. Below that the alternate version which was build for the 120 mm gun The Mark IV twin mounting was derived from the Hazemeyer triaxial mounting which had its origins in the 1940 arrival in Britain of the Dutch minelayer Willem van der Zaan. The Mark IV was a self-contained twin mounting that had its own rangefinder, radar and analog computer on the mount. This mounting used Mark IV water-cooled guns and utilized a track and pinion system for elevating and training which was powered via a Ward-Leonard system for automatic target tracking. The Mark IV was probably too advanced for its day and proved to be somewhat delicate for use on destroyers and sloops. The later STAAG and Buster designs were more robust, but very much heavier. According to service notes, the Mark IV was apparently used more often in manual mode than in power mode. Elevation was -10 to +90 degrees with cross-level of +/- 14 degrees with control cutting out at +/- 12 degrees. Maximum elevating speed was 25 degrees per second with the manually controlled joystick, but training and elevation via automatic control was limited to little more than 10 degrees per second. Weight was 7.05 tons (7.16 mt). The later Mark IV* mounting had a more robust radar attachment and differed in details of the controls and gyros. The following description taken from "Destroyer Weapons of World War 2" is of interest: Stabilised guns advanced fire controll http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNNeth_47-45_m8.php 12 cm/45 (4.7") Mark 8 An AAA weapon that was used only on ships built for the Germans during World War II, but the ships that survived the war were then commissioned into the Netherlands Navy. This gun was used on a Bofors designed triaxial mount for the twin mountings. These were criticized by the Germans as being overloaded as the cross-level axis carried not only most of the shield but also the very heavy casing for the dredger hoists. Apparently built with a loose barrel, jacket and removable breech ring and had a vertical sliding breech-block. May have been a derivative of the Bofors Model 1924C which was manufactured under license by Wilton-Fijenoord. Gun Characteristics Designation 12 cm/45 (4.724") Mark 8 Built by Wilton-Fijenoord Ship Class Used On ZH1 (ex-Gerard Callenburgh) and Z1 destroyer classes K3 sloop/gunboat (RNN Van Spejik, post war) Date Of Design about 1940 Date In Service 1942 Gun Weight 3.35 tons (3.4 mt) Gun Length oa N/A Bore Length about 212.6 in (5.400 m) Rifling Length N/A Grooves N/A Lands N/A Twist N/A Chamber Volume N/A Rate Of Fire 10 rounds per minute Ammunition Type Fixed Weight of Complete Round HE: 70.5 lbs. (32 kg) Projectile Types and Weights HE: 45.2 lbs. (20.5 kg) Bursting Charge N/A Projectile Length N/A Propellant Charge 11 lbs. (5 kg) Cartridge: 25.3 lbs. (11.5 kg) Muzzle Velocity HE: 2,625 fps (800 mps) Working Pressure N/A Approximate Barrel Life N/A Ammunition stowage per gun N/A Range Range with 45.2 lbs. (20.5 kg) HE Elevation Distance 45 degrees about 21,300 yards (19,500 m) Mount/Turret Data Designation Single Mount ZH1: (1) Twin Mount ZH1: (2) K3: (2) Weight Bofors Triaxial Twin: 57 tons (58 mt) Others: N/A Elevation about -5 / +45 degrees (estimate) Elevation Rate Manually operated, only Train about +150 / -150 degrees Train Rate Manually operated, only Gun recoil N/A Sources Data from: "Naval Weapons of World War Two" by John Campbell "Destroyers of World War Two" by M.J. Whitley "Warship Pictorial: The Royal Netherlands Navy: 1945-86" article in "Warships Volume X"
  11. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    On the subject tromp and heemskerk cruisers . they are a dificult subject as they are considerd flotila leaders and oversized destroyers. The tromp is more in the line of the French argyle class ships . same size speed exept for more guns better aa . it could be a cross over class ship . that can be used as a higher tier destroyer or lower tier cruiser. The heemskerk has someting interesting on their type of guns the same counts for the isaac sweers that used the same guns. they only fired high explosive shells and had rappid fire as they where intended as AA guns. and . due to the fire chance of the britisch guns these ships would be highly effective in setting fires on to all kinds of ship.. the gadjamada , belfast are just a few examples how powerfull these kinds of ships can be. they posses enough armour to fight of DDs comfortably and have guns torps to deal with tougher advisarys
  12. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    will do its like pealing an onion you discover more and more as you go then conect the dots. I will look for the deckers vlootplan till i drop dead . but find it i will so much data is in there . Perhaps a visit to the library in the heague to get it.
  13. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    On Karel Doorman an idiot , is just ignorance on the part of dmenace1967 . As Doorman wanted to pull back to Australia ,a large number of submarines intended to defend the dutch east indies where out of position and or sunk during the defence of british and assets in the far east. As these subs where developed and trained for the defence of the east indies and fight the japanese naval ships they sunk more ships in the first weeks of the war than british and american navys combined. Unfortunatly these subs where out of position . the loss of the prince of wales and repulse was a killer blow also the british cv that was heading to the eastindies got damaged and needed repairs the aa cruiser heemskerk and dd isaac sweers + one submarine where under way to bolster the defence of the east indies. As java was of main importance to the dutch war effort and allies as 4th largest oil and rubber exporter it was crucial to defend the region no matter what the cost. as the dutch navy new they would be out nrd and outgunned they where verry agrasive in their tactics every enemy ship sunk every transport sunk would have dealt the japanese a blow for succesfull invasion of java and other islands. Before the battle the tromp was damaged and during earlier engagements and was unavailable for the battle other ships where transferd out of the area . the houston got hit by an aircraft bomb and only had 2 turrets that where operational. The exeter was disabled early on and had to retreat , one dd was escorting here before she got hit again by another shell and taking out her propulsion. Up till night fall the battle was evenly matched only when the fleets retreated the japanese fired their long lance torpedos as they did not want them on the decks during a night engagment unfortunatly most of these torpedos hit the cruisers and other ships. calling doorman an idiot is just insulting and distespectfull as he and others where actualy fighting and trying to prevent the loss of the dutch east indies java.and vital oil and rubber sourced as he fully understood his fleet wouldnt stand a chance. and not folowing orders for atleast trying to protect the civilian population i would call treason. Especialy when the commander of the abda fleet Helfrich (this admiral already predicted on where the japanese would strike first pearl harbour midway and sanfransico and how in the 30s) orderd the fleet that came in to surabay for refueling to turn around as japanese ships where sighted . the plan was to have the fleet fall back to Australia as they did not find the japanese invasion forces the previous days. Now the fleet had to engage a superior force an admirlal troubled by dysentrie and an exausted crews of beeing on high alert for days. Up till then no offensive operations against the japanese where conducted . The battle of the java sea was the largest engagement of surface vessels since jutland. American and british air support was not given or unavailable on multiple request of the abda fleet commanders. And still he performed his duty and so did the other alied ships.
  14. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    Some interesting things apeared on research on the guns of the eendracht class german KH1 KH2 designs. It seems the guns where actualy ment as main guns for a german M class light cruiser. These guns 150 mm L/55 C/28 where also used as secondaries for the; Bismarck and "H": 105 to 150 rounds Scharnhorst: 133 to 150 rounds Panzerschiffes: 100 to 150 rounds Graf Zeppelin: 115 rounds "M" class: 120 rounds http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_59-55_skc28.php When the germans invaded the Netherlands the construction of the eendracht class cruisers where in early stages of construction as these ships where roughly the same size and specifications to the M class cruisers it would be safe to asume the germans would incorperate the design feature of the M class in to the KH ships .
  15. HNMLS_Bloyesvantreslong

    Dutch tech tree

    Some interesting things apeared on research on the guns of the eendracht class german KH1 KH2 designs. It seems the guns where actualy ment as main guns for a german M class light cruiser. These guns 150 mm L/55 C/28 where also used as secondaries for the; Bismarck and "H": 105 to 150 rounds Scharnhorst: 133 to 150 rounds Panzerschiffes: 100 to 150 rounds Graf Zeppelin: 115 rounds "M" class: 120 rounds http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_59-55_skc28.php And every on knows how good these guns are as secondarys on the zepplin and battleships. When the germans invaded the Netherlands the construction of the eendracht class cruisers where in early stages of construction as these ships where simular in size and specifications to the M class cruisers it would be safe to asume the germans would incorperate the design feature of the M class in to the KH ships . as there are no real detail drawings of the KH cruisers the supperstructure would most likly resemble a mix of the dutch and german M class. German industry was efficient and wouldn lett designs and development go to waste. The main difference would be that the KH would have the heavier armour of the eendracht and 4 more guns . Here is the history and some of the technical date of these M class ships. https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/100513-dutch-tech-tree/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-2442040 http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/zplan/cruiser/kreuzerm/tech.html Early as spring of 1936, design studies for a new class of Light Cruisers started. All previous build CLs were not able to fulfill their planed task as commerce raiders because of their too short range, therefore the new CL called Kreuzer M should get an enlarged endurance. Like the earlier CLs those ships should get a mixed propulsion system consisting of diesel engines for slower cruise speed and steam turbines for high speed. In relation to their size, those ships would have been not very heavily armed and protected, compared with Allied designs like the British Southampton Class. After the first four ships (M,N,O,P) an improved version (Q and R) should have been build. Besides an slightly increased size, the heavy antiaircraft armament should have been increased and the fire control of these guns should have been improved. With a projected construction time of two and a half years, the orders for the first four ships were given on May 28th 1938 to the shipyards Deutsche Werke in Kiel, the Kriegsmarinewerft Wilhelmshaven and the Germaniawerft in Kiel. While first work started as early as November 1938, it was planed to lay down the keel for the first ship on November 1st 1939, but after the outbreak of the war, the used material was scrapped in the shipyard.
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