Hugh_Ruka

I rest my case ... you really don't understand basic logic. Somers is a specialty DD not widely available, Kleber is a better Khaba (which we are trying to tell you). So you've basically proven the point of the OP ... THANK YOU !!!!

I see you cannot draw proper conclusions from what you saw, same as Flamuu is unable to evaluate some of them. Ocean is the best map for Khabarovsk with reduced rudder shift because there are no islands you need to clear where the nerfed rudder will put you at a disadvantage. And he still has 10km torps to herd the enemy ships ... so comparing to a 6km torp Khaba on a map with islands (which is literaly any other map than Ocean) is pointless ...

Popularity is closely tied to performance. If a ship performs well in a wide range of circumstances it will be popular. That's a basic concept you should be able to understand. If a ship performs in a very limites set of circumstances and there are other ships that perform in the same situations equally well and have something on top in others, then the popularity of the former will decrease. Just have a look at the YY vs Gearing situation for a perfect example. Kleber (or Harugumo) vs Khabarovsk are the same. Hello even a Grozovoi can perform in the same role as the Khaba now and much more.

No it does not. Unique ships like f.e. the Atlanta or the Flint are not easily powercrept because their appeal is in other aspects as well .. Just have a look at the Tirpitz for example ... The Khaba had some of that until the Kleber appeared which is basically a pre-nerfs Khaba (Khaba heal was one of the latest additions to the ship).

That's why I follow a wide range of CCs and streamers. I need to see the ships I don't have to know how they behave so I can counter them ... Khaba is about the least played T10 DD in my following list ... Oh yes, I forgot your first point. No it is not my opinion. Just compare Kiev to Khabarovsk. They suffer the same issue (bad concealment) and can carry the same loadout (heal instead of smoke) yet the Kiev is much more versatile since it has more range and torps that match the concealment so it has a much higher efficiency at torping targets other than island ambush or suicide yolo.

And since when is the Nikolai a tech tree ship ? Apples to Apples ..

Can you give me one CC/streamer that plays the Khabarovsk regularly ? I follow about 4 CCs and some more streamers regularly and the play the Khaba once in a blue moon and only on request while they play ANY OTHER T10 DD regularly ...

I pretty much figured that out some time ago :-) He fails to see that the Kleber is everything Khaba was pre nerfs ... long range guns, high speed, manouverable, decent concealment (better than cruisers) and could stealth torp (10km quite hard hitting torps). Then it got nerfed and nerfed. The only saving grace for the Kleber is that heas peak DPM output is only due to the MBRB.

You see ... I had a look at EU stats for last 2 months on maplesyrup ... purely T10 data: Khaba is the least played "normal" DD ... only YY is worse both in battles played and number of distinct players. Kleber being rather new is a step above SOmers but that will change over time. Even Z-52 is more popular. Harugumo more than double Khaba numbers in players and battle count. Sorting by number of players and then battles played, Khaba is the least played T10 DD except Kleber (ignoring the SOmers). Even the Benham nad Friesland are more popular ...

You see that was the mistake ... the proper nerf would have been turret traverse like the Kiev and Tashkent (18 seconds). that way close range you cannot keep guns on target while that does not impact long range. rudder shift impacts both as you cannot dodge close range or torps (and hence smoke is a useless option) and on top you cannot dodge anything other than USN shells at long range (well 13km is not long range). so the rudder shift nerf actually made the ship useless or bad at both ... it went too far ...

They do not love CVs but they cannot admit a mistake publicly or heads would roll ...

Ranked CV season .......

Translation: we have not thought about that and have no concept of the gameplay interactions yet besides the shiny new graphics ...

so basically not play the game ... going by the last sentence ... angling does not help against torps because you always take some damage on impact, you have to actively avoid them. angling helps against BBs because you can actually bounce shells so they either don't penetrate or don't do citadel damage. also a static angle is enough here, no active manouvering is needed (depending on the caliber to armor combination of course, but that's again something that's not a factor with torps). I don't want to see what a T10 sub will do when both pings land ... just seeing a T6 reducing a BB to 5% HP with 2 torps is too much ...

and you angle towards the undetected submarine rather than towards the detected enemy BBs right ? RIGHT ?

No, positioning of the CRUISER ... since you started the "BB deleting cruisers" argument ... if you cannot keep with your own arguments after 2 posts well ...

Sure, but positioning helps against shells while it has no effect on torps, torp hit angle is much less important ... range being a factor here ??? the more range the more time to dodge in both cases ... so no, not relevant ... also range dramatically alters the penetration properties of shells while again has no such effect on torps ...

Oh yes ... those BBs with homing shells ... oh wait ...

from what I have seen, RPF will suddenly become an important skill for every class, fleet DDs may be coming back .... you know those that stick to the large ships and screen for enemy DDs/subs ... I liked to do that in the ruskies back then (Kiev, Udaloi) when smoke firing penalty was not yet a thing ... Edit: I noticed one strange thing while watching a few more vids ... if you are proxy spoted by a sub that's submerged, you DO NOT PROXY SPOT THE SUB BACK !!!! Why ? proxy spoting works through ISLANDS FFS !!! This asymmetric [edited] with base mechanics has to stop ....

This is pure entertainment and I have not played a single battle since 0.8.8 :-)) I just hope they fix the sound before the Birthday event finishes ... I'd like to get some SCs but I value my ears and sanity more than that so far ... The dual purpose sliders look like UI not talking to sound and one finds that the other cannot accommodate their request for controls while having planned for having them and the result is the mess that we have now (this sentence including) ... I do wonder what genius OKed the update. I guess the same one that OKed 0.8.0 ... I hope he/she's not in charge of submarines ...

And even for an emergency patch you have changed my port AGAIN ... CAN YOU ALREADY STOP DOING THAT WG ???

How to put this politely ... you have no clue that I do know how rare those ships are. That's exactly why the chart is irrelevant. If a super rare ship is ABOVE a supposedly OP tech tree ship that anybody can get than it is not a chart about how often you can encounter it which is one of the relevant points. Imagine a ship that nukes everything in sight but you cannot take it into anything other than a training room ... is it OP ? Hell yes ... is it a problem for the game ? NO !!!!

or lower torp damage to 60% of current ....

Iwaki Alpha and Arkansas Beta being in the top 5 in the chart just proves how irrelevant that chart is ...

Once subs reach Randoms, I will gravitate to game modes that don't have them. It is a basic principle of game design that interaction between elements from different dimensions cannot be balanced as each element has only limited ways to influence the dimension they are not part of. We have seen this with CVs and subs will be another example. I still wonder why don't they implement attack planes in WoT ... I mean they were a reality in WW2 and I am sure many people would like them. The would play the same as a tank just above ground ... sound like a good idea right ? At least as good as submarines in WoWs ....