LOZFFVII

I'd say yeah, sounds about right. The Japanese are similar (aside from the DDs...they're an exception), which probably stems from them both being the first lines in the game. The USN cruisers' major weakness (as @Panocek has already elaborated) is that from T6 up neither the CLs (ending with Worcester) nor the CAs (ending with Des Moines) have torpedoes. Meaning you don't do yolo rushes and your opponents can do yolo rushes on you without fear. However, they make up for this with excellent firepower and AA defenses (and access to radar at high tiers). The only T6+ USN cruisers that get torpedoes are the T7 Atlanta-class premiums. This reminded me of a rule I always stick by: Do not purchase the next ship unless you have more than double the credits needed to do so. This ensures that you have a comfortable margin of safety for purchasing upgrades and for the first few battles where you could find yourself losing credits per battle.

Max limit break, South Dakota's oil cost is the same as all other max limit break SR BBs at 15oil. Compared with Nevada's 12, she definitely still costs more. Which is kinda a given when the game actually has an English localisation with events going on. I mean, Kan Colle has an event going on, but absolutely no-one besides those actually playing the game are discussing it. Why would anyone else discuss it? Besides new shipfus. Speaking of which: Janus is cute, but a part of me likes her abyssal version (Anzio Hime) a little bit more. Must be the way she pops her arms out of her outer shell to scare you. Obligatory Hugh Janus joke. Mikura is a cinnamon roll kaiboukan, which means I wanna adopt her. Must protecc. Also, pudgy Mikura is my headcanon. Duca degli Abruzzi is...a thing. With big things. REALLY big things (might be bigger than AL Zara's). Grecale is dangerous to pious Teitokus. Approach with caution. Godammit Jiji.

I stopped reading. Care to take another look down that wiki page for Shimakaze and tell me where it says she has torpedo reload booster? @Purnylla take this as evidence that Padds has no idea what he's talking about.

*Double-posting because on my drive home, I remembered the advice I wanted to give RE: CVs* @Sir_Sinksalot my advice to you to help you cope with CVs is simply: "If you can't beat them, join them." To elaborate: CVs only feel super-powerful to you right now because the T4s have recently had a bit of a buff to make them more appealing to new players, and the trouble with the T4 CVs is that they encounter ships that frequently do not have the AA firepower to effectively counter them, which means any sort of buff can make them overpowered. Essentially, I'd put money on those CV players causing you problems being high-tier players coming down to the newbie tiers to stat pad (or seal club, a term I'm sure you're aware of). Basically, the best counter to something that seems uncounterable is knowledge. By gaining experience in playing CVs, you get an understanding of what they can or cannot do, which you can then apply back to playing surface ships in order to more effectively counter them. If you make your way to T6 (don't rush, by all means take your time), my recommendation is with Ryuujou. The IJN CVs are a bit of a tricky beast, their focus is in how much better their torpedoes are than other nation CVs, while their dive bombers only have a single AP bomb attached to each plane (unlike the USN DBs or RN Level Bombers, both with multiple HE bombs) and their rocket attack planes have very few rockets (with low damage and low pen, but a very tight aiming reticle). Their planes are fast though fragile, and Ryuujou in particular has low reserves due to being smoll. The reason I recommend Ryuujou is not because she's super-powerful, but rather because she is probably the most balanced CV. When played right, she's really good, but she punishes poor play more than most other CVs in-game (I have been effectively deplaned in RJ a few times, and every time it was much earlier than other CVs like Kaga or Shoukaku). Also, I recommend her just because she's one of my favourite historical CVs. As well as one of my favourite characters in Kantai Collection and Azur Lane.

@Purnylla Don't listen to the chap above me. At 1916 battles played, my bet is he's rushed through the tiers and does not have the skills to mitigate torpedo attacks, so he just comes on here to moan. I don't have any advice to give beyond what @ColonelPete and @Verblonde have already said, I just felt like pointing out that if you can learn how to cope with torps, you'll be doing better than ^ this guy.

Also, did anyone else notice the title of the thread changed?

No no no no no. Stop! What you're doing here is selling a high skill floor line to a newbie. @Sir_Sinksalot while Verblonde might be correct about the KM DD's AA specs (I don't know exact comparisons), he's completely missing several weaknesses of the line: They have poor HE performance compared with ships of similar calibre (low damage and pen). This means you need to have the skill and knowledge to know when to swap to AP in order to maximise your damage. They are sluggish and fat, meaning they are not especially fast or manouvrable. That and they have the propensity to take full-damage AP pens. They have the largest surface detection range of all generalist DDs. Compare T7 Maass' 6.9km minimum to T7 Mahan's 6.6 (and then remember this is a ship that can face T8 Kagerou's 5.4km). Also note that Maass' detection range is equal to T7 Minsk, an RU gunboat DD. Their smokescreen is the worst in class. We're talking a) short dispersion time, b) short duration and c) long cooldown. All of the above cumulates into a line that is not beginner-friendly. If you want good generalists, then you want to play the US DD line. As Verblonde said, from about T6 up to T8 they have an optional 'C' hull side-grade that drops a gun turret for more AA and the ability to equip the "Defensive Fire for AA" consumable instead of Engine Boost. For the T9 Fletcher and T10 Gearing, they get the option to swap speedboost for DefAA without needing to drop a turret. Also, the US DDs have better agility than the Germans. Finally, the US DDs have (debatably) the best-in-class smokescreen, with long dispersion time, long duration and an average cooldown time (the only reason this is debatable is because while the RN DDs have short dispersion and short duration on their smokes, they also have very short cooldown and plenty of charges, so they have smoke almost on-demand).

I've retrofitted both, mainly because I don't intend to use either. That, and I want to complete my retrofit collection. Currently I'm missing York, Exeter, Jintsuu and Sendai. York and Exeter are both Level 85, and waiting for the final upgrade to change their art. That damndable Sandy retrofit bled my gold cruiser blueprints dry. Jintsuu I'm currently grinding 10-4 for, using my Iron Blood cruiser fleet to grind EXP for Roon, and when she drops I will be rushing my main story-mode fleets through chapter 11 to 11-3 to try and get Sendai.

I got 5 SCs from my 5 T10s. I got: 50x some camo. 100x some flags. 100x some flags. 1500 Steel 2500 Doubloons. Steel was nice to replenish some I used for Smolensk (before you say anything: are you sure the current offerings in the armory for steel are worth it more than Smolensk?). Doubloons I can always use for something-or-other, so always useful. In my free Sam Cat Box I got the mission for Bismarck, although I would've preferred Ark Royal, due to being wishy-washy about buying her or not. Also the fact that I already have Bismarck and I'm more likely to keep using the Varg camo than the Sam one. Hey, at least it's a free 11m credits!

As @Zemeritt said: Poi is from KanColle. Azur Lane's version is Awoo.

Yeah, and at the distance where Cossack or Lightning is chasing you, ballistics are almost identical anyway. And then Lightning has two guns forward with the rear turret having 360o turning (so it doesn't have to go the long way around under heavy maneouvres) with a mere 4.5s reload compared with Asashio's 7s. Asashio is outgunned. Cossack has four turrets, her reload isn't quite as good at 5s and (afair) no 360o shenanigans, but still with a fast turning rate. If Cossack is allowed to give a full broadside salvo, Asashio is dead meat in the dpm race (let's not forget that Cossack has speed boost AND british handling, meaning she loses less speed while manouevring than Asashio). Uhuh. And you're suggesting my team (especially the BBs) won't be trying to sink your crappy little one-trick-pony? I dare say (assuming either of our teams can be relied upon) that they'll relish the opportunity to sink an Asashio. Removing the vacuum goes both ways, y'know. Hell, I bet a CV won't particularly want to let an Asashio escape, not when they are one of her only viable targets, and it's not like Asashio's AA is Fletcher-tier... Love it when guys like you try to make Asashio sound like something that isn't a one-trick pony. Okay, fine, so Asashio is the best at killing enemy BBs. It can work at a cap because of stealth and...? What? It can't flush any DDs out of the cap if they're smart enough to keep to their side. CV in game? Guess you'd better smoke up or leave if he comes close. If you smoke up, enemy DD will flush you out with his torps. It doesn't have hydro for self-defense (or even for offense). So...the only thing it has going for it is stealth rating...which is equal to Kagerou, Harekaze and Yukikaze, all of whom can torpedo enemy DDs. The stealth is also functionally equal to Lightning/Cossack, which both have better gunpower, torpedoes that hit DDs AND hydroacoustic search! You wanna know something else? Even the T8 Pan-Asian gets access to RADAR for flushing out DDs in the cap! So, remind me again how Asashio is a "package that can work at the cap"? Also, I don't need to remind you that sending Asashio's DWTs towards enemy BBs approaching the cap is just asking for them to be spotted by DDs/CLs/CAs, all of which I stated earlier are targets that Asashio is simply useless against. And a fee reminder: it's the fact that Yuudachi can sit in the cap and can send its torps towards the approaching enemies and can still hit DDs/CLs/CAs that makes it better than ing Asashio. It's not the fact that it WILL it's the fact that it CAN. QED.

Ahah. Ahah. Ahah. No. Remember I specifically detailed Lightning and Cossack? Two DDs with only 100m worse consealment than Asashio, Hydro Acoustic Search and better guns? One of those two even has speed boost coupled with RN handling characteristics, meaning Asashio cannot outrun it. I'm not underestimating Asashio, you're overestimating her. For the record, I only treat Asashio as 'fresh meat' in T8+ DDs. I never treat any T8 DD as 'fresh meat' in any T7 DD. The concealment mod is simply too powerful to do that. Although, hilariously, I did in one battle have to chase down and kill an Asashio in my Minsk (but that was because the rest of my team were too dumb/cowardly to do it themselves - I even remember chasing her into her own smoke and torpedoing her, just to drive the point home).

I used Leander, Sheffield and Aurora. Worked fine for me. Obviously, with QE on backrow.

I don't have Asashio, and I don't care for DWTs. The lack of being able to hit such important targets (such as DDs) is inherently a flaw with the weapon design. I am a DD main, and my first response to seeing an Asashio on the enemy team is "Mmm, fresh meat". It's really easy to shut down any damage she does just by being where I need to be - in front of the BBs. Hell, I've made sport out of spotting all of her DWTs using my Cossack and Lightning. "Don't torp like a moron"? More like "Don't play Asashio, she's worse than Yuudachi".

...Except if Asashio's torps go near a DD or CL/CA, they will pass harmlessly underneath and be perma-spotted for the entire enemy team until they run out of juice. Meaning that only the dumbest of BBs/CVs will be hit by them. Meanwhile, if Yuudachi's torps go near a DD or CL/CA, that ship had better effing dodge or they're going to get hit. Take a look at the first game I had in my Yuudachi (the replay is available on the previous page). What was the thing I made sure to do that I couldn't do in an Asashio? Clear smokescreens. Also, there is a point part way through where one torp hits an undetected target: if you check the results screen, you'll see I did damage to the enemy Helena, despite never actively targeting her. The torps are fine and the detection range is nothing more than a necessary drawback.

Not directly, but I do mention shipnames in my summaries underneath, which wouldn't take a genius to work out who's who based on the screens. Then again, I also gave the replay files, so maybe even that's a moot point...*shrug emoji* (there really needs to be a shrug emoji)

Oh no. Her dance is doing finger guns. Oh no.

In one game earlier I had my entire AA suite knocked out after a Ryuujou spent an entire compliment of rocket planes trying to sink me (he didn't, but still hit me with two waves). Pretty bad then, I think.

Welp, I've had some fun this evening. EDIT: I just realised I should have edited the screenshots to remove names, but I'm too lazy to go back and do it. 1st Game. 2nd Game. 3rd Game. 4th Game. So, I'll just leave my first four battles here to let others be the judge. Feel free to critique my own play, I'm only a casual, but I like to think of myself as a casual player who's willing to improve.

And is a cruiser with only 6 8km torps (of which only three can be launched per side). Meanwhile, Yuudachi is a destroyer that has 8 15km torps that can be launched at either side. The only other DD that gets Yuudachi's torpedo set-up is...that one. The one that can't hit DDs or cruisers. (Monaghan only gets 9.2km torps, which is good...for a non-japanese DD at T6).

You missed a bit (I edited the comment to clear up something): Also, I'd just like to clear up that the reason I don't use TRB on mainline IJN DDs is because the smoke is too important for survival against certain enemy ships/classes.

Hey, if it's stupid but it works..! But seriously, after the removal of airplane torpedo spotting, it became much easier to hit targets even with torps with terrible detection ranges. You'd be surprised how many high-tier BBs stay almost completely stationary (or reversing very slowly) eating torp after torp. Had a match a few weeks ago in Shimakaze, where there were four shimas (two on both teams) and it was pretty obvious we all had the 20km torps. I managed to nail an Alaska and a Yamato in that one, as well as supporting other ships with my smoke screen (it wasn't like I needed it) and scored pretty high (can't remember if top or top-3). Again a few months ago, I was being harrassed by an Audacious, only for him to get spotted (briefly) by ally CVs' planes at about 16km away - launch torps towards where he was/was heading and managed to sink him!

Yeesh, way to piss on someone's parade. You cought me just-in-time too, as I had just gotten home from work and was about to log into paypal... I still think the combo of being able to use smoke and TRB in separate slots is overpowered. Especially when the TRB affects torpedoes capable of hitting DDs and CL/CAs.

What did you expect? Only someone of your generation could think it's acceptable to call someone "Boris Johnson" in this day and age! That is completely uncalled for!

We almost had one without Spood Beest (Yukikaze), but they backtracked on that pretty sharpish. On topic: Yuudachi is a pre-nerf Shiratsuyu with 15km torps. In short, she's a buffed pre-nerf Shiratsuyu. Coupled with being one of the best characters in KC/AL, basically means I will be getting her, regardless what the naysayers say. Poi!