ForlornSailor

Do you think, you did enough yourself, so that you should have won those games? And why do you feel, you should be rewarded by the matchmaker for doing noting like with Daring? And wouldnt the conclusion from looking at matchmaker and seeing "good players with high avg damage win games" be : maybe I try to improve, get better, so that I can be on the winning side more often? Or has the whiny attitute of "I want everything now and for free" finaly completly took over in 2020? Late captain Phil Harris has a message for you: Earn it!

/edit: so now that ive typed so much, maybe you can split this off, since Id really like to continue this aspect of the discussion and it is indeed off-topic. We need to define whats "proper" teamplay. I dont expect perfect teamplay, especially not on average. But as I said, the borders between basic gameplay and what I call Teamplay, are fluid. A DD that spots in the first place, a cruiser that uses the smoke screen to get into position, a BB that pays attention to the DDs spotting and shoots on the radar cruiser - those are game play and teamplay basic mechachics at the same time. And its those very basic things, that already makes division [with strong players] as influencal as they are. When I play a DD in my division, I know I can count on the cruiser behind me to shoot the DD. Thus I can take the engagement, also because I know, in most cases, the enemy team will ignore me. See, this goes both ways. If the playerbase on average would be more focused on these very basics, I would already have a harder time playing as a DD. It would automatically reduce our impact. Also, I might not be "forced" to play in divisions, if I know, people will focus the right targets on my spotting, when playing a DD. And over the years, ive seen a steady decline in these basic gameplay aspects. It has constantly become easier to play in a division. Now one could argue, that this is because of learning curve and getting better. Although I personally think, im playing close to my peak for about the last... 1500 games / 2 years or such. Small improvements, sure, but not huge steps anymore. What changes, if for me especially obvious when playing a DD. and the CV rework played a huge role. Before, atleast every second enemy DD was halfway decent atleast. That means, it comes atleast with the basics. CE, LS and a camo. These days, I run into so many DDs without CE/LS, even on T8+, its not even funny. That makes it even easier to take out this target and already a few mins into the game, our division has pushed the chanes of winning highly into our favour. And bothering about teamplay is another good point. Now we all know we play in an environment, where damage is everything. And thats part of the problem I suppose. But contrary to believe, spotting & capping does get rewarded - its just not that well known among the community. Also, as I noted earlier, spotting is fine and dandy, but someone needs to act on that. If nobody shoots on your spotting, you dont get spotting damage and thus no XP. Maybe that is already wrong and sole spotting should be rewarded. Then again, we have no clear info, what and how things are rewarded exactly which is... another part of the problem.

Yep, thats what im thinking too. Funny enough, I hate to think about Arms Race in the same moment, then I see the next post: Actually I see it the other way. Arms Race is better imo, while still not beeing awesome. or good.

And thats not a point against divisions, not at all. As I said: when playing divisions, I do it to get away from bad gameplay on my side of the team. It has nothing to do with the enemy team. You think, people that play in division, dont want decent opposition? That makes no sense. Then they would play T1 all day and the group of people, that do this, is super super tiny. Your division does not influence how the enemys play. Everyone has the same oppotunities as the division. A division doesnt do any magical stuff, which the enemys have no chance to counter. 2 DDs spotting each other are spotted for both sides. Both teams have the chance to shoot at the opponent DD. Thats the first good argument from my PoV in this thread against divisions. Point taken, have to agree with it. One solution might be: limit T8 divis to 2 ships, while you allow divisions of 3 (or even more?) on the lower tier side. On the other hand, we have the problem right now, that not many people play the T8 side and clans with enough players manage to count in with their T8 ships, bringing up to 5 ships (so all of them) into one game. Ive tried it once aswell, we were only 2, but we got in the same game right away. Doesnt work with the lower tier ships tho, since they seems 1000 times more popular. And in general, from the couple of games I played, I took this away: A coordinated T8 side has no problems winning. Like if you bring 5 guys from your clan into one game by counting in, it seems rather easy. In all other, completly random games, the T5/T6 side seems to have a quite destingtive advantage. Thats why 12vs5 is gone, atleast I assume, after the first days. Sheer mass was beating the better ship almost every time. But detailed stats in a meaningful number are only available to WG.

Well, he is only having such a high WR in CVs, because as everyone know, the average CV is just plain useless. So he aint really good himself, he is just farming his WR unjustified on the back of bad CVs players, which he forces on the enemy team by picking a CV himself. Indeed, using his logic, he should only be matched against El2a, Saiyko, Bear, Helmut, Warfarin and alike.

No its not. If you think so, I strongly encourage you to leave this game and play some solo game. Its a TEAM game. Each and every ship, every class is build around teamplay. This playerbase is just mentaly not capable of exercising this. And THAT is the sole reason, that good players in 3x division reach winrates in the region of 70 to 85%. Its not them beeing that good - its the rest beeing this bad. I dont play this game solo anymore, because im sick and tired of having to deal with the majority not beeing able to understand basic mechanics and ideas of this game. You play a BB? nice, your teams DDs vanish in 3 mins or sit in their shima-smoke trying to gun a Kremlin down, occasionally spamming I NEED INTELLIGENCE (data), because they dont even spot a BB 10 km away. You play a DD? nice, you imbecil team is t00 st00pid to shoot any round at the broadside radar cruiser you have been spotting for 3 mins now, while paying perfect attention to his radar cycle and range. Naaah, they are too busy, beeing tunnelvisioned shooting AP at the bow-in Yamato 20 km away, bouncing every shell. You try to smoke up your radar cruiser so we can tag team the DD thats in front of you in the cap, which is obvious because its turning red? naah, brainic rushes through the smoke, never uses his radar, panics because he is spotted, turns broadside because MUST RUN!, rams an island and BOOM oneshot from a BB in the spawn. THIS is the sad state of the game and people like you argue, that ACTUAL teamplay is BAD for this game? Are you even serious? You want this game to go even more down the drain, with each and every player doing tf he wants? I have no words.

Unfair? Did I carry out the lobotomy on those 3x BB with 40% WR? Did I force them to go to A1 and shoot HE? To h*** with this unfair whine, seriously. Nobody is forcing people to suck beyond believe. Only thing bad about it is, that they ruin the game for the other 9 people that have the bad luck to be with then in one team. And thats the reason you should division in the first place - to get away from such braindead monkeys. Damn sorry, shouldnt insult monkeys like that. Remembered a documentation I saw about them actually excersing teamwork, in order to get food. 40% wows players do fail at this each and every time. They would also starve to death in such an experiment. Within 2 mins of the scientists leaving the room, so they´d go "how is that even possible?" on return, when they actually wanted to start the experiment.

What you dont understand ist, that "beta tester" is an award given to players, that joined the game in the early beta stage. They have nothing to do with developing / balancing of the game, neither back then nor then. But nice strawman & personal attack, jumping his throat by drawing a conclusion & connection, that doesnt exist. How do you feel now with that information? Thats the state of the game right now. Ofc not. And neither actually. Stomping teams like full of super bad players is equally bad as beeing caught in one of those teams. You either know you gonna lose no matter how hard you fight or you know the game is already won and you scramble to get anything done, because you know, that else its low XP & low credits. Most people here agree with you, I know I do. And now the question: what are we gonna do about it - what CAN we do about it? All we actually can do, is, to appeal to WG to stop this madness. But it might not be in their interest. Those poor players throw more money at WG then we do, thats the hard truth. So its valuable customers to them. I dont agree with catering to this part of the playerbase but I can understand why WG does it. Thats the reason why balancing is done the way it is. Why torpedo DDs getting nerfed, AA is getting nerfed and BBs are getting buffed. Catering the playerbase, that fills their pockets.

How would that make ((them)) use their brain more tho? By that logic, you just have to catch all the braindeads in reallife, lock them up in one facility and after one year, you unlock the door again and a million Einsteins run out. Might sound harsh but in all honesty: you can only learn something, if you see the possibilites. A parallel universe-gameserver with only 40% would be heaven of HE-Spamming Yamatos, which would be concidered the god level play. Among the blind, the one-eyes is king etc.

Wow I got lucky then. Played quite a few games with eco signals, took a short break for lunch, kept the game running, came back to find myself disconnected and thought how that could be... So yea, something did happen.

Well, it was one of those "even a bad play can have some positive aspect". ^^ Your analysis of what he/we are trying to say, is right. I understand your point, that less experianced players will miss judge this and then miss play by using the guns too often / in the wrong place. Point taken. Its kind hard to make it very clear, like "use guns then / dont use guns then" because there are literally a million situations evolving, depending on so many factors. Also your own position matters so much, so 2 players in the exact same game even only very little appart from each other can have complete opposite results while using guns. I dont know, its prolly something, that everyone needs to find out for himself after all. There is so much situational awareness evolved and right now, when I think about those moment where I decide about using guns on a DD or not - so many anecdotes pop up in my memory. Like right now I recall, how a red afk DD got me killed because I used my guns. He was in his innitial position at the spawn, never moved. I had everything covered - only not the possibilty, that there is a DD, that never moved. I couldnt figure out, why I was spotted and got blapped. Only when I saw the endscreen with a 0 XP DD, I knew what happened. Long story short: it might just be impossible to somehow put it in writing here, how & when to use those guns. Matter of personal learning experiance. But the starting point after all is: you have guns for a reason. Oh, one good advice I can still add: For staters, its a good choice NOT to use the researchable upgrade on the gun range (as well as not picking AFT) for non-gunboat DDs. It gives you better chances to fire unspotted or get dark faster after dealing with the red DD. Unlike someone else stated, you are not guarenteed 20 sec spotted after shooting your guns. It all depends on your gunrange and if there is someone in range. I can go dark the second my shells hit the target, if I kill it with my first salvo. So we are talking about beeing spotted a couple of seconds (defined by flight time of your shell, to be precise)

Absolutly not. But its their fault, if they dismiss your & mine input. I can just tell @Migantium_Mashum, (no need to try and teach the other dude downvoting every post here, he is a lost cause anyway) that ive asked @Bear__Necessities several times in the past for input, on how to play DDs in general or a specific DD. And these days, I concider DDs my favourite class and I perform best in them of all classes. Just because it sounds wrong to you in the first place, dont dismiss it right away. Think about it, try it out and see for yourself. Honestly, that has always been my attitude, especially when its obvious, that the guy stating those things, is performing well. And this approach has served me well. Exactly this. The counter argument for not using guns always sounds like a lone Shimakaze is pushing straight into a Daring, who has 10 Smolensk and 2 Worcester sitting 2 km behind him. On Ocean map. Ofc thats not what we are talking about but it should be obvious, right?

Shimas alpha is scary. Can be underestimated very easily. One recent occasion, a Shima gunboated my Gearing on the start - quite frankly, he did suicide with that, but more important: he took 1 of my torpedo tubes permanently and quute some health. This gimped me so hard, that I couldnt carry the game anymore. lost. Another occasion I remember (I have this game on yt I think, atleast on my HDD) is where Im with Fletcher in the very endgame against a Shima with lower health. Due to his spotting advantage he gets the first shot and almost kills me because of that. When both DDs are low, the on-paper existing lower dpm hardly matters, if you dictate the engagement and are a good shot. In that Fletcher-Shima engagement I was more then confident and searched for the engagement, just to be scared during the last shots, that its gonna be me, who goes down (would have been a loss then).

He refers to ALL DDs ofc. Only if you dont understand how to use those guns, when to use those guns, against what to use those guns aaand dont understand how spotting in this game works & dont pay attention to matchmaking aand last but not least: lack the understanding to compare your own DD vs. the enemy DDs. Big difference indeed.

From that distance, with Alaska shells, you can not reach the citadel of Jean Bart. Nothing to do with all the research you have done (btw, its correct what you find out, but indeed the physics ingame are altered to deliver a more playable gaming experiance). You get pens because you have enough penetration to go through the side armor (whereever you hit) and the shell then arms/detaonates in the regular space above the citadell.

They have completly different roles in the game. You need to play them in a different way. Maybe you just personally favour gun boat DDs more, since they suite your gamestyle. You´d agree that Chung Mu is rather a torpedo DD, right? Thats my result from last weeks. I did enjoy those games. Also, dont mind me saying that, but your stats show, you have problems with IJN DDs in general and more problems with high tier game play. So when you take out Yugumo, both combines and its just logic, you have a bad time. My suggestion: use the forumus to get some advice on how to play (torpedo-) DDs, go down again to T6-T8 and use the litter bit slower pace to get more experaince in how to play.

So you think its fun to lose against Bots in Operation? Interesting. Back to topic: Another thing this mode is missing, is decent rewards. It feels like XP are very weird calculated. I got a DD that did nothing but die 3 mins in get 700 XP, while my 116k damage, full duration fight got me 950 XP? wut? Same as here: 75k damage on higher tier ships + cap + spotting and I got a really mediocre result actually? A game like that in randoms would be easy 1800 XP with T-61. Whats the highest we have seen so far? something in the 1500~1600 XP range? anyone actually got above this?

I second that. Also, I dont understand the logic behind this: When there is a CV on the low tier side, they get 9 ships (so 8 surface ships). When they DONT have a CV, they get 12 ships (which ofc means 12 surface ships). So that is WG telling us? A CV has the game influence of 3 to 4 surface ships? are they actually admitting that? Besides the point, how much "fun" it is, to fight against 12 ships when you are 5 on your team. The focused HE spam is totaly insane and impossible to deal with. In my game, even the BBs understood to shoot HE. How do you tank that? 8 fires, 110k took damage... Give T8s the ability to division up to 3, then it might be possible for good players to beat the odds, with teamplay and focus.... Nah, change my mind, just scrap the gamemode, I dont see the fun in that.

Within 2 weeks the game couldnt start any matches anymore, because everyone has everybody blacklisted :D (id blacklist everyone below 47%, even if it takes me 7 months to click through - worth it!) You have any proof, that super unicums have no life and spend all their time in he game? tbh, its just a bitter, envious opinion of the ones, that dont make it into the small group of top players while wishing so hard for that. Its something you hear in each and every games community. Ill give you some inside: I refuse to play this game solo, because some years ago, the last day ive played alone, the lack of understanding of team-/ gamemechanics and straight out refusal of players to execute any form of teamplay made me swear, ill never do this to myself again. If the majority of players just would be able to community and teamplay - there would be no need to division. And divisions would not have such a big impact on the outcome of an individual game. As with many things: blame the bad players in this game, not the good ones. Its all their fault, seriously.

There are 12 players on one side. 12 players on the other side. Explain to us, how its possible to rig the game, that everyone loses 75 % of the time? Shall I answer this or do you really want to take a try... Leander is one of the strongest Cruisers in the game. So what are you saying? You think you are much better then what you stats show? Better then some of us writing here, just because for some reason, you think it gives you a moral highground, that you play solo? So there are only lunatics and bad players on your team and never on the other team? Whats the vendetta of WG against you then?

confirmed: Edit: check how he fired em straight into 3 of our ships

Easy, because the army of honking m***** is annoying like nothing else. Ive done the same.

Before that change I was so looking forward to her. But now... Granted, the innitial package would have made her (close to) OP, atleast if you know how to make full use of those guns.

Started the Chung Mu grind - such a nice change, coming from the Hsienyang. Highlight game was this, especially the moment where I reverse around an island while smoking, cuz there are 4 BBs camping behind - that was almost 100k damage in less then 20 sec and 4 really pissed BB players ^^ - and ofc not a single kill for me -_-

...which means, you are effectively locked out from creating new elite commander XP for the time beeing. As we all are.