ForlornSailor

im talking IN GENERAL as you did too. YOU were the one talking about torping a Moskva: So it was rather you that wanted to torp though an island. wtf is this? Are we having a serious discussion or is this degenerating to kindergarden-level? If the Missouri is moving BACKWARDS and never TOWARDS you - how can he EVER be a threat to a DD in a cap? Can you please check your stories for logic before your post them? He has a detection of 12,2, radar of 9,45 km , which he can use to deny your cap but you cant torp him from 10 km, since he is in reverse - am I the only one whos head explodes from the missing logic in that??? I think, now you think you are smarter then you actually are. Shall we go into a trainingroom and you want me to burst your bubble?

A) your numbers are off. B) A moving target can hit from 12~13km without problems with 10 km torps. which makes statement wrong. Especially, since the concealment of the Moskva is 13,8 km AT BEST(!). Thus, running into Moskva radar, while trying to torp him is stupidity par excellence. Mind I quote your own post: So how come, first it is so stupid, that it will never happen (when this argument fits your agenda) and then all of a sudden that radar is SO OP? Which one is it? A DD is not a counter to a Moskva. He is the counter to you. You have already a pretty comfortable spotting advantage. Spot it, mark it for your team and if they cant deal with it - you have a bad team and are destined to lose that round. Simple as that. I presume you want to SHOOT the radar cruiser from your smoke or cover? Excuse me?

Yep, he was in the left corner on shatter :) I agree - it is a wider problem. The thing is once again: WGs decision not to communicate important details to the players. We all know from other games, where a big fat number in the style of "+1000 XP" pops up right in the middle of your screen, when you achieve something? You have this in all games. Shooters, Actiongames, hell, even Tetris tells you your current score. Why cant we know, how much XP we are gaining at this very moment? A DD capping could have a a number pop up, so he KNOWS right away "oh, that was good". Or a constant gain, when he is just crusing, spotting and making it possible for the team to get damage done. It could actually make you think "oh, I can just continue doing this. im getting actually more XP compared to me sitting in my smoke and firing my tiny guns at a 100k health BB." Making the connection, that hitting ships = XP is easy. Thats the absolute basics of videogames. But I wonder how many wows-player would answer the following question wrong: "If you hit a Kurfürst for 10k damage OR you hit a Zao for 5k damage - which will give you more XP". Thats why many people have their target priority wrong aswell. But WG once said (ill never forget that): we dont want to tell people, how much XP they gain for which action, since players would abuse it". Biggest WHAT? moment ever in this game. How absurd this statement ist, can be pictured, if you think of a business simulation where you cant see, how much money you make or currently have. And the developers telling you "hey, if you´d know, how to make money, you would just abuse that system". I need a break.

Good point... Guess we have to wait and see. Kronshtadts AA is garbage aswell tho.

Yep. Im pretty sure it will come riiight around xmas :) Also: now that Musashi is getting removed, I dont think there is a question. Get it - NOW! And one more thing: I just got myself Kronshtadt, since it will also be removed. Not impressed. Played only one round but guns are unreliable. Railguns, yes, but the dispersion... And it takes MASSIVE damage from everything.

Musashi feels very accurate for a T9 BB. Much better then Missouri, to give you a comparision, since you have Missouri. Also, you get more penetrations on BBs. Shooting at a BB with Missouri (for me) is often frustrating, because I feel I deserve more damage. (We all know the 1350 dmg salvos, right?). With Musashi, a bad salvo is something between 4k and 7k. Oh yea. Musashi is among the best BBs on T9 in my book. Alsace has some strong points going for it, Missouri is more versatile but the rest...

Words cant express. Same about my "fantasys". If you´d pay attention, I said in my post to AnotherDuck, that both things happen, which I never disputed. But go on. You seem to be uncapable of understanding or unwilling to discuss. And thats one of the problems / fears I have in general with the changes, WG is implementing: that it makes it easier for players with low skill and takes away the things, good players have learnt, thus taking away their advantages. Ah maybe a little to be fair. The core of the statement still stays: a lot of bad players complain about mechanics, because they havent learnt how to deal with them and/or dont understand the mechanics in the first place. Well... if you pay attention, how some people play and then check, what kind of XP they get... the conclusion isnt that far fetched. If it wouldnt affect me, I wouldnt care either. But it does. People play bad but its a viable tactic for them, since they generate enough income. The thing in wows is this: the longer you survive, the better is your income (or your chance to get a decent income). There are even HE-shooting GKFs these days, sitting at their maximum range. The weird thing about this is: By not using their full capabilities, they actually have the potential to gain more XP/credits. Ill explain: That camper is shooting HE from the back all the time. Meanwhile, the team is holding the enemys at all cost, so neither can advance. The Camper is profiting, because he is getting perma fires or fire damage from people, that dont DCP the first fire. They dont care, since they know, they can repair that damage. The longer is goes on, the more damage he can leech from one ship. Since XP is generated based on the maximum HP of a ship, it will generate much more income to leech HE/fire damage over time, then to just one-shot something with AP from close range. Remember the round, where we played Missouri, you Jean Bart and Dfens was Kronshtadt? The Saint-Louis in my back? He got 80k damage on me, he was the top scorer - so im sure he thought "man, I did so good, but my team sucked". While actually - he was totaly useless? I even told him that! All the HE and fire-damage on my scoresheet is from him. But he was so far away, that I had the concealment advantage. If I would have wanted, I could have gone silent and would have been undetected. But there was no need for that. I didnt even want to shoot him, since we had much more important targets in the middle of B f.e. In my book - the Saint-Louis was camping and leeching useless damage on me. What he should have done was this: Use his speedbost, relocate in stealth towards B and help his team there. Would he have gotten so many XP? I doubt it. But he might have won the game actually...

My cat always activates my consumables.

I was asking myself this very same question. And I asked many people, that I know. I ended up with pretty much 50/50 advice. In the end, I got Musashi (just couple of days ago actually) and so far im happy. It even makes credits in coop. My clanmate did the same and we´ve actually been playing randoms with Missouri / Musashi combo. Musashi is stong. It cant handle DDs and CVs, but when you protect it against that - which Missouri can actually do - its slapping enemys left and right. Which makes playing Missouri easier. Good combo. And with the way, the T9/T10 matchmaking works, you always bring a set of T10 guns extra for your team, nice advantage. I´d say get Musashi.

And thats the problem right there: I´d say 80% of the playerbase is simply not willing to do this and/or doesnt understand the benefit of it. Everybody is just thinking "MUH DAMAGE". I personally have focused myself on two things: hunting DDs and defending against the threat of CVs. I "pay" with having a pretty low avarage damage and a low PR on the stat pages - but my WR tells me, im doing the right things. This game just focuses way too much on damage and neglects teamplay. And when you look at the end of the round on the scoreboard, you understand, why the backlining, useless BB or the DD, that circled the map, never spotted or played for the objective but torped some useless ships in the back, think, they are the greatest players this game has ever seen. What is stopping you from playing the same as the two AA-ships of the CV-division on the other team? You can communicate with your CV aswell. I -always- do this, when there is a CV in the game. I let him know, that im AA-build and that ill happily support him against enemy fighters. So whats the advantages a CV/AA-division has? Communication, teamplay and they are build for AA. Nothing you cant do yourself. Its even more rewarding when you make it work with a random person you´ve never played together with before. Just happened to me in Texas last week. I did my usualy "CV ill go here, im AA build, feel free to fight near me", to which he replies, that he´ll do. Then I do infact shredd the Fighters of the enemy. Later in the game, the red CV makes a last run and tries to sink me, while im low on health. So im hitting the "need AA-backup" and I see an "affirmative" popping up a few secs later. Even better: his fighters are moving in and save my [edited]. Thats some teamplay right there - wows can be so awesome. Its these moments, that keep me playing, I guess.

I agree with that assumption.

Yes, indeed. How do I know If I still have to improve to get a notch up...

Its true. In situations, where you see a ship slowing down while smoking up, and you are moving, it is the best I guess. I still usualy keep the aim manualy on spot and look for gun bloom, to adjust where I shoot.

That one is truly horrible. If I have to tell, how long it took me to notice SHIFT+X, I´d have to give an astimate in years...and it still hasnt made it in my routine, eventhough its so powerful in certain situations.

THATS a good point. Hey, everyone and their mother did buy T8 premiums by now. The mine is harvested, might aswell throw it under the bus. Still playing T8 premiums? Well, look at the T9s/T10s arent they shiny? arent they powerful? Open your wallet... you know you want to...

Yea, I still remember that "Oh, look, there is a nice cruiser broadside, lets get some citas...booom, BLUB_BLUB got him. okok. no problem. there is the next...BOOOM... WTF?!" Thats a good point and very true. Sometimes, some enemy makes such a dumb move, that it will actually get you killed. I remember a Donskoi rushing full speed through the cap right from spawn, detecing myself in Donskoi aswell, while I wasnt yet in the position I wanted to be. It actually got me killed. Him too, but that didnt help me much.. I think, its what so often refered to as situational / map awareness and positioning. I have developed some routines for maps and ships or maps and ship-combinations. Also, this is influenced, by the matchmaking. CV around? Am I top or low tier? How many DDs? I basically have a checklist, then I go through during the loading screen, which helps me decide my early gameplay. My mid-gameplay is usualy, that I react to what the enemys do. I try to look for oppotunities, how to create advantages for my side. Late game, when many peeps farm damage, is where im the worst at, my personal observation. So I will not give any advices there . Now, I checked the replay. What my checklist tells me first: Toptier & CV in the game. Since your AA isnt the best, that makes it kinda tricky. I wouldnt have gone to the far outside of the map. Between B and C would have been a good idea I guess. Your Lyon is actually headding that way. You might have used your spotter plane at one point, to get some shots out, when you had nothing in range. But that moment tells you "hey, im too far away from the battle, something is wrong with my position" (its the same observation I made for myself). The funny thing is: this kind of careful play can even get you killed easy. If f.e. the CV would have flown around the flank - he would have sure attacked you without help. Or after you side collapses, maybe because you didnt support enough or your team got focused to hard - then its your turn. This has happened to me often, when I started to play slow BBs. I found myself raped by a bunch of enemys, until I noticed "dude, its your own fault". Its also whats happening in your game. Your backup was already sunk and then the enemys turn all against you. Now, could you have won this round if you would have played any different? I doubt it. CV doesnt do enough, your guys at A... and B is just given to the enemys for free. Lost game.

Funny thing is: if you have a non-braindead-team: Its so easy to deal with that. Just yesterday I had all the enemy BBs resorting to that "tactic". I mean one was an Izumo, the other a Musashi, granted, for them its ok to do so, especially when the other 3 BBs are doing the same . I had fun watching in zoom, while our DDs torps travelled 10km towards that GKF, blowing it out of the water. Well, a little bit sad aswell, since I just had my BB positioned on his broadside. Best part was, that the same volley took out a transgender Zao (he thought he was a Worcester obviously), camping stationary at an island, spamming me with HE. #HighTiers Maybe try to look at the games, where you did high damage and compare it to the games, where you didnt do so good? Ask yourself: What did I do different? Ive done this kind of analysis myself, since my stats were telling me, that I usualy deal too low damage. I came to the conclusion, that I have a problem of pushing aggressive enough, when most of the enemys are retreating. Thats why I often have a couple of minutes just travelling full speed over the map, to get to the next enemys. Its not a big deal concercing winrate, since it usualy happens, when games are already won or extremly campy anyway. But muh damage... Anyway. Looking at 1 or 2 games only isnt enough (havent looked at your replay yet, will do for sure), its a longer process. One game can give you a wrong impression. Have to ask yourself constantly and question your decisions. Not so easy. Maybe the hardest part of "git gud". Learning how to shoot and to aim is easier - I know for a fact you know how to hit enemys, that cant be the problem. Maybe it also helps to watch some other players in the ships, you usualy play. Not super unicums like flamu, but rather some decent players with slightly above average stats. I personally find it easier to spot mistakes or learn something there. When you watch flamu play, its hard to gasp why he does all the things that he does. And he cant constantly explain them, else he would be talking about nothing else.

COMPLETE OWN GOAL! A) we are not in the US. Using US-problems to try to prove a point in Europa is bs. B) If you´d wanted to talk about real problems : THIS is one! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_States

Oh no you didnt XD. Asking for something like this might go wrong - VERY wrong. I already know, what such a camo would do to my ships funnel...

Actually - they are: While you even try to tell me, that I couldnt behind an island, while I show a screenshot, where I do exactly this. First, this: Second: Where do all the complaints from BBs coming from, that torps are OP, CVs are OP, cruisers (!) are OP and so on. So, I can tell you where these kind of complaints come from. It has to do something with this: I rather think your argumentation is collapsing, thats why you get so defensive. I havent seen you contering any point of what was brought up, that shows the situations, how current radar gives DDs information that saves them. Yet you try to argue against them. Its an example. Its valid. So many times someone (not you, just to be clear) comes in this thread screming how unplayable the game is for a DD, when there are 4 radarships per side. I just wanted to show: its not unplayable at all. Nothing more, nothing less. Its the same reason I am here. At this moment, I think, it will be problematic to discuss the radar-topic due to the upcoming CV-rework. Mainly, because we dont really know, how it will play out. Maybe we will have 2-3 CVs per side, even in high tiers? I personally dont see it, but that would increase spotting that much, that radar* would actually be an overkill. Simply because: the only mechanism for a DD to defend against such a massive spotting/damage thread would be - to smoke up. And then a radar cruiser could just move in and remove that last defense the DD has. *the number of radars in high tier matches, simply due to the fact, that so many ships nowadays carry radar. On the other hand: Maybe we wont have that many CVs? Then im especially looking at low/mid tiers. T4 to T6 has a very healthy CV population. Games without CV are rare, many games have 2vs2 CVs. Spotting DDs is pretty common, unless your CV(s) are suffering from the picture posted above. The CV-rework might change the balance on these tiers in favour of DDs - if the number of CVs decreases. I personally dont like the CV-Rework exactly because of how it mainly has the impact, to change the interaction with DDs. It can go either way and either way very badly. Someone already brought up the idea of introducing a light version of radar on lower tiers, if spotting will be reduced. Kamikaze sisters could benefit hughly, if WG screws the CV-rework up, we might have a complete new side on the discussion. However - this is all futuretalk. But I hope WG keeps this in mind, that if they change one side of the game so drastically, it WILL impact the game in other parts.

Exactly, CAN be done. Here is the thing: Some people have not that much time and still would like to get that the stuff. But you are restricted to play certain ship in those couple of games you can do per week/day. Need 35 fires? 500 main battery hits? 10 torpedo hits? And so on. And you got only a couple of days to do these. So if you only log on for 2-3 games in the evening (which is already close to 1 hour of playing, mind you), the game tells you pretty much, what ship you have to play. As you mentioned free XP ships: Im completly free to pick the ship/gamemode I like, to get it done and im not on a schedule. In this case: There was no real need to make weekly missions, that even have 4 stages. With the need of getting 7 stars on each stage in OPs, this could leave you even with the need to play 8x (min!) OP, unless you manage to unlock the next stage without playing the OPs. There could have just as easily been a mission, running for the entire span of the RN Quest that says "Get 50 stars in Operations" - right? And for that, you collect one Guinea. I´d be much more free in deciding, when to play and what to play.

How come, that in these kind of make-up-reality is always looks like this: - the radar cruiser is COMPLETLY untouchable, nobody can harm him, because there are perfect islands for him all the time from which he can cover all objectives? Also, the red team is perfectly covering that radar cruiser, making it impossible to counterplay it. - the DD however is totaly helpless. There is no cover, no island -and if there is an island, everyone can still shoot over it- , no backup and 11 out of 12 red ships have not only direct angles on him, but will shoot within 0.0001 sec of him beeing radared. Stop. this. fantasy. And before you say, you didnt say all that in thar quoted part: You know damn well its a summery of all the things you´ve said before. Dont make me quote it all, its already in this thread. Oh I do remember you saying that, dont worry. Its pretty much the reason, why I picked that phrasing. Two things about that: WG wont change the meta, I think this is obvious. They wont introduce hard caps. They did it to DDs, logic would have called for a hardcap on BBs much earlier IF WG would oppose games with 5 BBs. And just to be clear: this is not my opinion, this is just an analysis of what is happening. So WG is fine with 5 BBs per game but isnt with 5 DDs. And yes: Its a big reason why Cruisers can not go in the open. It has almost become impossible to play aggressive with RN CLs and smoke for the same reason - some BB just will try his luck, because he might hit the jackpot. Its worth more then shooting at another BB. The other thing: We actually need to have a real balance in mind. You dont like CVs, you dont like Radar and you dont like BB overpopulation. And with that CV-rework obviously coming at us, it will change the interaction of all these things again. So, actually, at this point, I´d think it would be wise for WG to go and test balance-changes with the new beta-CVs. Which they ofc dont do. Whatever they decide to change about radar (or even other things for that matter) - you´d need to keep the new CVs in mind. Personally, I think we are in for a bad surprise. Not sure how much you looked at the new CV-gameplay, but imo: its going to be dard days for DDs. The CV will be at the cap faster then you are, AA seems utter worthless as of the moment and real fighters, that could help you against the red CV spotting you, are gone aswell. I dont see myself pushing in the cap as the first DD on my team, to be fair. Let someone else go in, take the attention and then lets see. And I´d like to end this post with something general on topic: I actually had a game with 4 vs 3 radars today (granted, we influenced it by bringing 2 radars ourselfs). Pay special attention, how well our DDs did. I actually ended complimenting them all. The Kagero on our team was smart and pulled the Radar of Seattle and Buffalo on B - also, because I gave him the information, where they were positioned (I could track that, since I pushed A from the middle and wasnt detected). So Kagero then tells us: their radar is up - which he couldnt have knew with LoS-Radar. After their radar was on CD, he went out to spot, tracked the Yugumo, forced that to smoke up and then it was my time. Something similar was happening on C. The Jutland constantly played with the Moskva and later the Seattle/Buffalo, once they repositioned there. He had 4 ships from our team right behind him So intelligent DD-players have no problem with the current radar - but you need to support them.

Bad players do bad in any ship. Ive literally seen a Stalingrad burst into pieces 2:30 in the game. Dont ask me wtf was going on with that guy.

Yep. Sims is very good. Mahan/Farragut work too. I have my Mahan specially set up for Dynamo, this is how it looks like:

Sure, we can (I belong to the group of @DFens_666 farming Dynamo). Currently, we are saving up signals again for that OP. I´d advice you to do too. Save all Oureboros / Hydra / Red Dragon / Leviathan / Hydra / Basilisk. Dont ever use them in random or even co-op games. Same for the best camos. The ones with +200% XP or very high combinations of XP and Free XP should only be used for farming. Once we have more then 10 signals of each, we do a complete day of Dynamo. Its gonna be a while now, until we have stocked up on signals. Prolly around Xmas again, if nothing crazy happens. So you have time to stock up on signals again. If you got a set of 10 signals and camos, you can do 200.000~250.000 free XP in one day (you wont always get 30.000 free XP, thats an outstanding round). btw - we can do some training rounds, if you dont know Dynamo yet. Its important, that everyone knows exactly, what he has to do.