ForlornSailor

Concealment Expert. Always Concealment Expert.

That, however, is not the defition of gambling. Else, paying your social security would be gambling.

Yea, its basically the same thing that has been discussed quite often recently. Are the requirements hard? ofcourse not. But you need to put a lot of time into it, to get it done. Personally, I dont have this time in december. Especially with Clanbattles around and the progress not counting there.

Nope. Because it would have been then "The person I quoted before I quoted you and before I replied to you". But keep digging your hole, you think I take you more serious now? So your is complete bs, since at that point you infact were enganged only with Dfens in a conversation, that went back and forth 4 times in total. You were obviously just looking for an easy way out, since you got no arguments left. gun, foot, shoot and you know the rest, right? Since you replied to that, anything before that, especially what someone else said, is completly irrelevant. Be careful were you are going with your argumentation, or I will throw things at you, that someone else has said to Dfens during the chain, claiming you must take that into account. This is what you are doing here.

Yea... like you said: only under perfect conditions - and not to a Musashi, like mentioned in the OP ^^.

Which cruiser deals 30~40k raw HE damage in ~25 sec? Seriously, I need this ship.

"The person I quoted" was also @DFens_666. Everyone can look it up, like I did: And he was infact talking about the 3 high tier cruisers. So wtf dude? You quote him, ramble something completly unrelated, and when he tells you, he isnt talking about Leader & Fiji, you ramble again. What is going on with some people in this thread? Have you completly lost it? You think you get away with blatently telling lies, while everyone can look it up? Why? What it your goal in that? Maybe you can also admit, that you straight up put words into my mouth, when you concluded after your stat-analysis of Leader, that I was asking for Leader-Buffs. Only reason I mentioned Leader, was to tell, that I dont want to talk about Leander and from my PoV OP was clear, that he isnt talking about Leander. Since he used the workding "ESPECIALLY HIGH TIERS". For the super-smart CP, this somehow meant, that OP was talking about all RN CLs, especially Leander and Fiji and under so circumstances Neptune. How he comes to this conclusion, is obviously his little secret and quite frankly, a secret for anyone with basic english reading comprehension skills. Anyway. Maybe we can end this back-and-forth, non constructive rambling here and move on. Its a new day after all. I did also look at the survivability of Neptune a couple of months ago, @Culiacan_Mexico above me posted some nice data on that aswell, which shows, how the survivability has been going down. I did put the following graphic together earlier, comparing DD vs RN CL survivability. This is data from 2 weeks in august, so prior the BB AP change against DDs. I guess DD survivability has/will rise slightly again due to the recent buff. Would have to look it up again, but its quite a logical conclusion. Lets look at this without emotions and only with the numbers in mind: Neptune is (the stats from the last 9 months) the worst T9 Cruiser in the relevant statistics. It used to be the best in WR and it lost 4%, which is nothing more then a landslide, right?. It has also the lowest survivability, lower then all DDs with the exeption of Ognevoi. WG justified a lot of balancing with the argument, ships were under- or overperforming. Also, there is a trend of lowering the maximum damage, a ship can take per salvo, for BBs and DDs. (BB AP vs DDs and the trend of removing citadels from BBs). And thats why Im asking for a survivability buff especially for Neptune. We all know, Cruisers are the doormat for everything these days. I just wonder, why in every thread, where we talk about buffs for Cruisers, there are constantly things brought up like "not everything has to be easy... it has a high skill floor and thats ok", yet especially BBs and recently also DDs get pampered into some kind of easy mode. In an ideal world, I´d go the other way - nerf the others to strenghen the position of Cruisers. But we all know, this isnt going to happen, right? We all know, WG wont give citas back to all BBs, so that theyll get punished for showing broadside. So we have to go another way for the cruisers. Im not going to ask for more damage potential. One COULD from the stats even form an argument, that the damage output is too low, since its below all other Cruisers. But since RN CLs inflict raw AP and torpedo damage, this has another value then say Worcester, which is heavy HE and fire focused. Also, keep in mind, that Neptune (and Minotaur) are most likely going to lose on of their extreme strenghts: the AA-capabilities. Its contributes a lot to their strenght, to their XP gained and also to their WR. (CV division, games, with CV in general, where the team with a Neptune / Minotaur has the AA-advantage). This is speculation, but based on what we see in the testing, it will remove the AA-specialist-role of the 2 Cruisers. And it will impact the performance of them further. Neptunes already lowest WR will then go lower again.

Well, its easy: If your logic, that you expained wide and long, applies for the stats of the Leander, but the exact same logic then doesnt apply for the Neptune - you are a Hypocrite. Its pretty much up to you. Oh and btw: Neptunes WR IS the lowest. Can you for once stick to facts? One game in the big ocean is as meaningful as a grain of sand in the Sahara :) Also: wrong ship. Good catch, Culiacan So, within 15 months Neptune lost ~4% WR. Thats a landslide-loss when you put it in context, which is most ship beeing between 48% and 52% global WR. It went from the top-dog to beeing the loser at T9. Seems like my observations, that Ive shared, were right after all. And nice to see, that Minotaur isnt effected that much. So we can draw a conclusion, that the detectability when firing from smoke and most likely the base concealment aswell is too harsh on the Neptune. Has been mentioned several times in this thread, and yeah, those people were obviously right. @MrConway can you guys please take a look at these numbers and your internal stats aswell? Ive bugged you with Neptune a few months earlier and I did took your advice but the trend continued and the global stats aswell as other peoples observation point in the same direction.

Dont get me wrong: I wasnt disputing, that Worcester is OP. But he is making yet another excuse to justify the bad performace of RN CLs on high tiers, you cant do that. I think, we both discussed Worcester in another thread aswell, so you should know my position on that? I mentioned it is this thread aswell earlier. And yes - Worcester atleast should not exist in the way it does and it impacts RN CLs. Its not only the US CLs tho. There are actually so many more factors, that have made life not only for RN CLs harder, but Cruisers in general: - Kronshtadt & Stalingrad - Legendary module for Yamato & Moskva - Special captains, like Yamamoto & Halsey These are all things (in addition to what has all been mentioned before), that have over time little by little chunked the performance of RN CLs.

Two days ago we played Cherry Blossom with 6 people. There was talk before, if anyone knows about this bug, that prevents you from getting 5 stars and if its fixed. Apperently, it is not. Bug: The liberty ships Secondary-task doesnt complete, even everything was as it should be. @MrConway Reproducable: Obviously yes. We didnt try a second time, but when it happenes on the first try, at least it looks like a high chance of happening. Quite a dissapointment to get only 4 stars, when you are there to farm and have you best signales mounted... Base XP was lower as it would have been with 5 stars =/

You know where to find me. One of my favourite OPs, ill play it anytime. (Who am I kidding, I like most of the OPs)

l0l. How am I responsible for what other people say? I said high tier - Neptune - Minotaur - (Edinburgh) dozens of times. You either reply to me and my points, reply to the other guy or SHHHH. How about you work on your own discussion skills before unleashing out at others? Jesus christ what a guy... Again - you are turning in a circle and you dont take into account what has been said. You are looking at overall stats. For the 4th time now: Things have changed! I have listed all the things twice now, as has @Aragathor. Why do we keep losing information that has been gathered in this thread and have to go back? Aragathor also posted recent stats of Neptune and its is the worst cruiser. lowest WR, lowest dmg, lowest k/d. So, your own logic, since you say, ships that perform bad in stats would qualify for a buff --> Neptune qualifies for a buff. Thanks? Can you people now finaly stop to make up new reasons, why that ship doesnt deserve a buff while even after your own logic, time after time, the conclusion is : BUFF NEEDED. Extra LOL for that.

Confirmed. Did it a few days ago, 5 stars, the supplyships count now. I dont think the fix was mentioned anywhere tho. Or I missed it.

Was just waiting for that. You shot yourself in the foot dude. Bad stats --> has no idea of the line / l2p issue --> cant ask for buffs Good stats --> line is already too strong --> cant ask for buffs So sorry, but you have just disqualified from the discussion. I said i HAD 75% WR after 110 games, that was ~early summer 2018, when things were still ok. well deserved Winrate, as I performed the max out of the Neptune. I explained - many times and in detail - was has changed since then. And thats the reason, they need a buff.

Well, best Cruisers imo are Fiji/Belfast/Atlanta/Indianapolis. That leaves Helena and Algerie and I think Helena is still the better pick, because you want the DPM against the DDs. Thats just my 5cent tho. I always pick Fiji or Indianapolis. Anyway, when your BBs are bad, it doesnt really matter which Cruiser you take, you are screwed either way...

True. You notice in Co-Op, when the bots have a Minotaur or DM and you go with something like a Takao. Theyll rip you a new one so fast, you think a couple of super unicums have replaced the AI.

Good that you agree, that good players with good stats in a line have a decent view on the status oh ships. Well, and here I am. RN CLs work perfect for me. They are my best line infact. And I went with them all the way from the start until now. So I can judge pretty good where they come from and where they are now. I had a WR of 75% in Neptune after 110 games. Neptune needs a buff, there is no way around it. The concealment is horrible. And both Neptune and Minotaur are too worthy targets for any BB and BC because of their citadel.

Who would have thought, that there are obviously random people constantly forming divisions for CB, and they are raging at each other, because the game doesnt start? Seriously, its news to me. Then again - we are talking about wows-players so... Well, obviously you can not form a division, since you cant start a game? Maybe WG could have disabled the option to form a division, but I guess they thought, that CLANbattles would be enough of a clue? I have to ask you again: why are you in that clan? In my two clans, that ive been part of, we have direct communication outside of the game. We know pretty much when we play, we see when someone is online and we form divisions all the time. So yeah, if your clan is inactive or incapable of communicating, you will obviously miss out on clan activities. If that bothers you that much ... get in an active clan? Get involved into communicating yourself? These things dont just happen by itself you know, its needs you too.

You cant form divisions with random people / people from different clans. They need to be in the same clan. And only the clan commander or someone with similar rights can lead a division into a clanbattle. Thats why your battle button is always disabled. If that is the case and your clan isnt interested in clanbattles, while you are - you seem to be in the wrong clan. There are a lot of well organized clans around, that put their lineup together already a couple of days before the next clanbattle evening is happening. There is a forumsection, where people can look for clans or clans are looking for players. Maybe you find something there.

Lets just agree to this: I need you in your Lyon and you need me in my Fiji or Indi.

The guns are amazing, thats true. I only have Musashi myself, but it also does things, my other BBs cant do^^

Yea... you have a point there. Its just the times we live in, I suppose. When talking with friends or family, I often make jokes about all the stuff the PC-police is missing on their crusade . I personally am just upset with the money grab, WG is attempting with the Missouri/Belfast/Kamikaze thing. And since I play with some guys, that only picked up the game in 2018, I know how horny they are for those "forbidden fruits". Which brings me to: ... I suspect the same thing. Also, good post @Bellegar!

I never claimed my memory is good *edited* *edited* *edited* So. now we are getting closer to the problem. There are some good observations. As ive said before: A year(+) ago, you could just push in the open, smoke up, and dakka. This was the style of the RN cruisers. Now, as you say yourself, you hug islands, because RN CLs are target number 1 for many people - spotted or not. Then I ask: where is the advantage of Neptune (Minotaur) over the US CLs? They can spam HE from the very same position with almost similar range, which is more effective. During that phase, smoke is often not needed. Your torpedos are of no help aswell, since you are behind an island. Thats why more and more people are running radar-mino. Which is, imo, not a good thing for the game. We dont need more radars, because if one round starts to have 50% ships with radar, DDs have a hard time fighting for the objective. I know im argueing in the radar-megathread for radar, but at a certain point, we reach a situation, were we simply have too many ships with radar around. Also, the US CLs beat Neptune in concealment. All of that combined leaves Neptune where... Then, looking further, what kind of survivability buffs WG has given BBs and DDs in the recent history: Most BBs had their citadel made almost unhittable. DDs got a buff with limited BB AP damage. Its not inline anymore. You throw a salvo BB AP at a spotted DD, you get 5-6k if you are lucky, often less, in very lucky occasions a litte bit more. You throw that same salvo at an unspotted RN CL in the smoke - it can be anything really... So I dont think its unreasonable to ask for a survivability buff for high-tier RN CLs. Actually the opposite - its time to give some love for the cruisers in general.

With great power comes great responsibility

Im not exactly sure, but I think, the bots do spawn closer to the harbour now, isnt it? I had the feeling right away in the first game, since I was able to shoot with my Leander before those green forts went down and spotting was gone for a moment. Before, you could only reach them with a BB? Or have the spawns of our ships been altered? Need to check some older yt-vid of the Operation I guess.