ForlornSailor

Anyway. @MrConway how are the chances to get this 20-sec-thing removed again? I mean it was gone for a while and the community liked it? I cant remember even seeing one complaint about it (altought I dont claim to see it all). The current 3-sec-rule makes up for a much more dynamic, aggressive gameplay, giving cruisers and destroyers more chances to take risks and make offensive plays happen. And I guess thats what the majority likes?

No need for a mod. You can use a chess-clock next to your PC. shoot - hammer the clock - watch it go to 20 - move.

I will still test in Co-op or Trainingroom before I trust it

Only if an enemy obtains line of sight within the firing range of you within 20 sec after you stopped shooting. So if you stop shooting and plan to leave you island cover - you need so wait 20 sec. Because else you will be spotted. If nothing has direct line of sight to you, you wont be spotted while shooting from behind an island. That doesnt chance.

I refuse to believe that. Just no. They can not be THAT stupid.

Are you actually that oblivious to all the situations, where especially BBs profit from bad dispersion? All the times you hit a target, that actually wasnt there, where you aimed, and still gets hit, because your shot is all over the place?

Only because you didnt saw it or chosed to ignore it, doesnt mean, nobody complained. I did bring that topic up couple of times, so im "living proof" your claim is not true. Not that it would be an argument against discussing the point anyway.

Id like to solve the puzzle: they are all US light Cruisers! And we could always ask WG to put radar on the Exeter, right guys?

Holy F! this one is special

Yea right. I can see prime examples of those DD-players in the radar discussion megathread "I sit still in my smoke and get radared all of a sudden" - "I think radar shouldnt be able to spot DDs in smoke, because its their defence". Those dudes spot JACK and you know it. They dont know how to play the class and its better for all of us if they get punished so hard, that they are pissed to the bone and finaly leave this game. Alternative: they finaly learn to play, im the first to offer them advice. Usualy doesnt work.

botting? And what does he find so funny about your stats? The Murmansk? Yea, how dare you play such a blatantly overpowered, invincible ship... But yea, ive been told that aswell, that my "stats clearly show, im a filthy low tier sealclubber", despite having over 25% of my random games played at T8.

Umm. Off-topic, but I just have to say it: Your voice, @K98_Schuetze, sounds exactly like @Ubertron_Xs voice. Added the fact, that Ubertron replied first, totaly screws with my brain.

I´d like to bring another perspective in. IMO, the Gneisenau is in a pretty rough spot in the current Meta. Even in the Tiers, that Gneisenau faces, people are pretty careful these days. That goes for the greens aswell as the reds. For that reason, I dont like to bring the Gneisenau to random battles. It thrives in close combat and high speed battles. When it can make use of secondaries, torpedos and the low number of mainguns + bad dispersion doesnt matter that much. Thats why I´d tend to play the Gneisenau careful in the start. Dont overextend, wait till you have all the informations, how the enemys move, where the DDs are and so on. On certain maps, like two brothers, the Gneisenau is well able to start an early push, if you have a situation, were huge part of the enemys lemming to the other side. You shouldnt hesitate to push and win the weak flank then. The Speed of Gneisenau allows for a fast respositioning anyway. To stay with two brothers: after such a push, you have all options, depening what the enemys do. Continue to turn clockwise (if some enemys turned or stayed behind) or turn around (if your team stayed back and is about to be steamrolled). Those are imo the real strenghts of the Gneisenau. Speed and the capability to win positions in a push. Ill have a look at the replay later, when I got some time.

Not only that, but playing with VU against Gneisenau or Duke of York just feels historically awkward...

I have a couple of questions myself to you, @GBDarkAngel and they are:

Earlier today, our division had @Yedwy in our team. Despite our best effords... this team could not be carried. Our DM & Salem didnt knew they have radar, didnt knew they shouldnt give broadside, didnt know to shoot at DDs... which brings us to our 2 Kageros who: didnt knew that Hindenburg has hydro, didnt knew that smoking up and sitting in it will take the sight from your team and didnt knew about objectives. At one point, I had the enemy Yueyang and Benson open-water gunboating me, since I was the only one on our flank, that tried to get rid of the DDs. I saw, that your flank collapsed also. Looking at the performance of our team, I think it was a surprisingly close game. Well, anyway, nice to meet you ingame, till the next time!

He is better at it then you are.

Its not a mega hard nerf. With the CV rework there was no way flooding could have stayed the way it was. That was an obvious change. Either that, or the flooding from torpedo bombers would have to get an own mechanic.

I´d say, your judgement about the people posting here and the topic at hand is.... a subjective opinion without real foundations, isnt it? But at least for you I have the solution: right upper corner of your screen. You will find an "X". And you never have to bother again.

- You dont bring a DD without atleast 10 point captain and CE to the battle. Its an absolute no-go these days. - Starting a line on T8 is another bad idea. As you should be able to tell from your own performance.

And I thought I was the only one that noticed. But take a look at f.e. the "radar discussion megathread" - there are people, right now, saying, it is impossible to play a DD. When you in a top-clan already notice this - think about how its looking at the levels below you guys. Wow, cant tell how happy I am to read this from another experianced player. Ive been saying these things for over 40 pages in the radar discussion thread and all I hear is "you are wrong, you know nothing, you are a radar fanboy, go try play a high tier DD". Its true. Radar is not a counter against bad players. You dont need radar for that, they kill themself. And the BB AP change was a joke also. People did not understand, that a BB has a slow reload and thus has to deal more damage with one salvo. But yea, it made DDs really strong and good players profited the most. So will this group of people profit from the radar delay, while the braindeads will... die as always. I said before the BB AP change, that it will make good DD players unstopable and I knew, im going to enjoy this time. Which I am. WG is actually creating unbalance, not balance.

Allright, fair enough, I agree. Lets take a step back and slow down with making assumptions, what our discussion partner is about and rather ask, if we are not sure. Ill try to give you another view on my position and why I think the way I do. I dont like to think in boxes, like some do here, labeling someone as a "DD-main" or a "Cruiser-main" or even a "Radar-fanboy". I draw conclusions from peoples stats, because it tend to show, what they like to play. Although, Ill admit, this can be misleading, as I know from my own stats. Especially true for old accounts with loads of ships. Recently, my favourite class is DD. This might be surprising for some here. Its my most played class in the last months, and the only reason, why its close to cruisers still, is, that im always playing in a division. And they want to play DDs themself from time to time, eventho I like to claim that spot for myself. And we never bring twice the same class. Because I play in a division, I might also have a different experiance then others, I will admit to that. But core elements of DD gameplay are the same, regardless if you play alone or in a division. This includes radar-counterplay, picking a position, spotting for your team, these kind of things. I do get a lof of help in fighting other DDs and targeting radar cruisers, I will admit that. But these are not my main objectives anyway. But that brings us to one of the core problems of these days gameplay: People dont know what their role is or straight up refuse to fit into it. Its the job of Cruisers to get rid of DDs, the job of BBs to get rid of (radar) Cruisers and the job of DDs to fight for the objectives and give their team the spotting advantage. And reducing the effect of radar starts with doing your job right. Also, it amazes me often, how easy the enemys make it, to get the advantage by so obvious missplays. Kageros giving up their biggest advantage, the concealment, because they come without CE against my Benson. Or a Shimakaze firing his guns against my Fletcher. DDs smoking up, sitting in it, because they are spotted for a second from my Z oder RN DD, effectivly concealing me from their team, while I will just Hydro them. Those are things, that I really wouldnt need a division to take advantage off. Thats why I criticize them. And the guys, coming here, complaining about how radar makes it impossible to play, while its so obvious from what they write, that they missplay, Ill offer help first. Ill tell them to think about their gameplay or ask the forumites for help (as you can see above). Often with little success (as you can see above aswell...).

Ever concidered, they might be right? Ever concidered, it might be someone with 5000 games and 65% WR in DDs? I do go for the cap right away, hardly ever had a problem. And im yet to die to a radar on my innital contact with a cap. As are many other DD-players. How do they manage and you dont? Ever concidered, it might be your fault? Your missplay? Again: how do other DDs manage? If you lose because you let your team down (looks like it, if you are getting moaned at. Im not getting moaned at, im collecting postive Karma when playing DDs), dont you think it might be your fault? The enemy team has DDs. Why do they win the game for their team and you dont? Since you ask: I do & did. 100% Winrate so far. It shows again: you have no idea whats the do´s and dont´s in a DD. Torping & attacking a radar ship. Rofl. You deserve to die while doing that. I give my smoke to my division mates. Guess im not a proper DD-player. Thanks for enlightening me. Nice assumption (a couple of forumites just made fun of people throwing assumptions around in another thread, just FYI). And btw: if a DD is sitting still in his smoke, while beeing radared or hydroed - damn right I reserve the right to fkk him up. And I gladly will everytime. Wanna guess what happend to this guy?

Sometimes, I literally feel like Michael Scott on that gif, when reading the forums and finally you find one guy, that understands, how things really work, after you went through pages of bs...

Equivalent? When you look around in this forum, assumptions beat facts by a long shot. You feel like Don Quichotte fighting with sense, reason, logic and facts against the hords of uneducated people that spill their non-sense. And 5 minutes later the next guy comes and throws the same stuff again at you.