ForlornSailor

Much discussion culture right there. Arguments? You two talk about arguments & reasons? Your posts got nothing. zero. If anything, you are like Trump...

Yea... thats certainly true aswell. They should have never allowed 2 CVs per side on the higher tiers, it caused a lot of the problems I think. Thats why I mentioned the parts about teamplay / cover. Sure, if the DD is that far ahead, I actually think, your conclusion is right. He will automatically be in that area, where the red CV is looking for a target and thus be spotted a lot. So this is challenging for both DDs and Cruisers/BBs. They need to actually teamplay and stay somewhat close to each other. But hey, if this change forces teamplay down the guts of the playerbase im all for it. I actually tried this today (staying close to the DD), what I would have called before "overextending" in my Mino. Maybe got a bit lucky, that the enemy BBs were so afraid and my random DD actually seemed really decent, but it worked and I managed to protect my DD by that. Also the early spotting of your CV helps, because you can now detemine much better, if you can move up or not. You now know pretty much 30-50 sec in the game, where everyone is moving. Im a little bit 50/50 about this overall. It seems to make people more passive (who would have thought thats possible, right?) but when you have that information - might aswell make use of it.

It kinda was adressed actually. AA got more consistant in dealing damage, which disallowes planes to stay in a position of spotting for a long time. This, ofc, only helps if a) the DD plays for the objective instead of wandering around the map or in the enemy spawn. No friendly can nor should cover you there with AA. b) your team is willing to support you. This needs very basic teamplay / communication as in - not go alone for a cap / move together for a cap. If someone doesnt follow a+b - you will be permaspotted and deserve to be deleted by the CV.

You quote him = you adress him. Shouldnt have done that if you wanted to adress someone else. Discussion 1x1. But if those 5 BBs cant deal with a Mino then... maybe that team deserves to lose? Yes, It sucks for that good CV player, if he loses because of having potatos on his side, but thats not a new thing in this game right? It happens to everyone of us all the time in any ship so I dont see this as an argument why it shouldnt apply to a CV. Also, to be a real threat to the CV, you need to play your Mino offensive. The 8,2 km bubble is history. Today, I was only able to protect that random Kitakaze by literally beeing in the cap with him. I cant really comment on how the interaction Mino/T10 CV atm is, didnt get to play/test enough today. The one time, I was against a Midway, he avoided me all the time.

Right now, you will be attacked for anything you say in this forum.

agreed agreed That I dont agree with (If I read you right). CVs should have roughly the same impact on the outcome of the match as any other player/class. Yea, thats freakin hard to achieve, and its super hard to meassure that impact (looking at RTS CV data) because when when an intelligent player with his 2 AA-skilled buddys meet a solo potato, then a) the outcome was clear in 80~95% of the cases (depending, how good that division is, how many other potatos are in that team or how decent the test of the enemy team is - you get the idea) b) this 80~95% winchance is not only the result of the CV vs CV interaction, but rather because that division shows teamplay and is usualy better prepared for a CV-game (because those divs bring AA-skilled minos/worcester etc). So crediting that outcome only to the CV was always wrong. But it falsified the data aswell. I feel, with the change in AA-skills / modules, you get less of an advantage out of a CV-AA-Division. You dont have these super huge AA-bubbles anymore, f.e. on the Mino. But it made the captain skills somewhat... useless? Im better off skilling RPF on my Mino now than AFT, even when doing a divi with a CV. Also, because he might not be available to perma spot some DDs for me anymore. So not sure if that was WGs intention, but they removed a little bit of the advantage of those divisions, which is a good thing imo. But I dont envy them in their job in getting this right. No matter in which direction they go atm, they´ll take heat all the time.

Indeed it is. Did they value the input of any experianced CV player before? I cant think of even one. This focus on T10 / Haku is getting annoying. Also, the forum is a mess. The moderators, quite frankly, arent doing what would be neccessary. The goal of WG was literally to make CVs more accessible. So far, they have created a short-time OP Haku, that made people throw money at them to exchange free XP (guess thats a success in their view?) and entry-level CVs that will... scare new players away.

Do you always discuss on this level? Who did he call? Again, you are very unspecific but throw heavy words around. Seeing how you are wrong judging people in this thread, I kinda have problems buying your 95%. I dont see 50.000+ people whining on the forums. And I dont see the reason for you stomping in this thread the way you did.

If he would tell the truth, that would be even better...

Who are you refering to? Im kinda allergic to those "you guys" posts, since it means nothing and everything at the same time. You can do better.

You prolly missed my last post, since we almost posted at the same time. But, for "educational pupose" you might upload the replay? Then we could check, if there are other ships inflicting damage with mid/ long range AA to your planes.

I came to think: it might very well be, that he was in the long range aura of one of the BBs or something, and the DD only finished the planes with the continous (low)damage, thus getting all the kills, creating such a weird screen. This new mechanic might create pretty weird end results if you think about it? Like when I protected a Kitakaze today with my Minotaur - I got 3 plane kills, the Kita 5. I´d like to think, I did more damage, but the shortrange, continous aura from the Kita finished the planes? This stuff is all new to us. We need to observe, how different ships with different auras interact.

Look, there is the data : https://wows-numbers.com/de/ship/4179605488,Midway/ knock yourself out. I was actually interested in the numbers, so I checked a lot of players / CVs. And the data was obvious. On top of that - as you say, you have to take into account, that a lot of these games have now 2 CVs per side instead of 1. Taking that into account, seeing that players of those TX CVs, that show stats for both the same reworked and old CVs, have often a higher maximum spotting on the new CV - is putting weight on my side of the argument. You can hardly claim "oh yea, he has more spotting damage now, but there are 2 CVs which share spotting damage, so you cant compare it" now can you? If you dont want to spent the time to research yourself, thats fine. Im not going to spend hours in linking the profiles or creating a huge database just for you. The players are all listed there. Just dont claim im talking bs, while clearly im not while you refuse to look up the numbers yourself. This isnt a court where i need to present anything and neither am I fighting for something or need your approval to make those numbers a reality. They are already real, no matter if you acknowledge them or not, it aint gonna change anything. Anyway. What we have talked about yesterday is already... yesterdays news. The situation has shifted again. It is now possible for AA-cruisers to guard/protect the DDs and hurt a CV that is out for spotting / attacking. It was day/night today, when I could actually force the enemy T10 CV to widthdraw from my cap, simply because of my presence. It lowers the spotting at the same time. Unless we would roll back to the situation from yesterday, the data in the stats are now useless, because - as of now - you can not do the same anymore. Its a shame the stats wont be reseted again, because it makes future comparisions - especially when looking at absolute values like max damage or max spotting - useless or will lead to wrong conclusions. One thing about the spotting in general: the new CVs provide very early spotting. Thus it can be an advantage for ships, that need to know, where the enemys are. Those are DDs and some cruisers. Then, during the match, the spotting gets updated usualy in very shot invervalls, because the CVs cycle so quick now. I could actually use this today to my advantage. Also, an AA-Cruiser can now deny the enemy this "perma spotting", because he will get hurt. Still he gives an updated position on the minimap, which can be used by the team, if people are able and willing to utilize that information. I kinda liked the gameplay today. Teamwork is up, AA-cruiser can now effectivly combine AA (which wasnt really the case before), you get spotting info constantly, not enough to deal damage at will, but enough to give you information on how to act, CVs cant pick any target at free will and Haku isnt broken anymore.

Or... you just fed your planes to the DD to have a nice pic or the forums

this dude... But yea I see you speak from experiance We can only guess and say: thats prolly that WG wanted. They mentioned skillgap and too high influence of the class as problems with the old CVs. Certain combinations should be strongly in favour of one ship or class. How about you explain to us, why you think that a CV should attack ANY ship and win the outcome? No - you demand an explanation why ONE OR TWO ships should be safe from drops from a CV. This is a pathetic question.

Man and I really thought with my hint you would understand. I overestimated you, my bad - wont happen again. See above... sigh No. bad players die to the flak. Because they go straight towards the ship, they want to attack, without maneuvering. First: Doding does matter. Looking at the balance, this 1/3 claim you make, seems pretty much in place right now btw. Second: Also the ship and the setup of the ship itself + the captain should matter in terms of AA. Which, until yesterday, didnt.

No s.... If they would know what targets to select and how to drop - they wouldnt be bad players. Last time I checked, continous damage is still a small part compared to flak... so you example is totaly polemic and wrong. You could argue, that a BB would deal 2k damage, even if he misses, that would be a closer comparision. Please, if you want to discuss, be reasonable. Not true, because then we would see every CV player do equally. Which isnt the case. btw: the entire thing, you are talking about, comes from the changes with the F-mechanic. The solution is easy: dont F your planes while beeing in AA-range. There are only a few people, that are on my list of reasonable guys, which I take by their word, on what they write. Here is one of them:

You absolutly want IFHE. The decrased fire chance doesnt really matter. When the right moment comes, aka you see a juicy target has used DCP, you use the reload booster and almost always get one or more perma fires. Double rudder is an option. In randoms I switched back to the Concealment Module tho. It makes it so much easier to disengage and reposition. I found that a little bit hard without the better concealment, Henris concealment is bad as it is.

Just FYI: (not that it matters) you are wrong. But that might be too hard for you to gasp

What chance??? The Planes are dead before they attack with strong flak. With continous damage, they´ll atleast get their payload off and actually deal some damage. So which one is better : deplaned and 0 damage or deplaned and 25k dmg. We need to decrease skillgap, not increase it. Its actually one of the original goals of WG (look it up in the devs blog) and by the looks of it, they share the view of things with me?

So that bad players still have no chance, better: even lesser chances and decent players, that know how to dodge, can get away unharmed. Nah, you are 180° wrong on this one. WG is actually right with the shift towards continous damage.

There is another option - support your DD and play super aggressive. Me and @DFens_666 supported a Kitakaze today, we just rushed with him into the cap (Minotaur /Worcester), each on one side of him. Glorious. It was a joy to see, how the CV tried to get to that DD but couldnt. After a couple of minutes the CV went "gg enjoy" in open chat. Granted: you need cruisers with some balls and just a little brain, when playing a DD. Or you bring a Division. I got shot at from a Yamato, while moving in the cap, but hey, you see that coming and got plenty of time to dodge so... Right now, its actually Ok. You dont need the entire team, 2 ~ 3 ships (talking high tiers) are enough. Thats pretty much enough to take all the objectives, if this teamplay prevails. And adding up AA is actually, what I always wanted to have in this game. It was so stupid before, like when a Minotaur was near a DM, that activated Def AA, your Mino hardly shot down any plane. Now, these two will form a much more dangerous AA-bubble. With a smaller range, since we dont have 8.2 km range anymore, which is also good. That part of the rework is actually good and deserves a thumb up.

But at the same time, you know as good as I do, that GC sold much better then those 2 ;)

Im sure they could implement a mechanic, that will reverse to 8vs8 games, when there is a bot on the human side. That would solve that problem. But yea, I know, coop is too hard for some people, so even 8 humans vs 12 bots might end badly ^^

On most BBs, for me, thats still a Yes. 100% for US, RN and IJN BB. German and french - you might think about speccing into secondaries more. But also the french BBs profit from CE so... 50/50 on that one. Whatever suits ones playstyle I guess. @Leo_Apollo11 add a vote? would be easier to see the overall opinion.