ForlornSailor

No.. its you how isnt reading, or better, understanding. And not only what we say but what WG says. What you describe is literally what WG wanted to achieve with the rework. CVs need to carefully select their targets - CV need to have a lower impact - CV shouldnt be able to attack any target. Those are near quotes from the various Q&A sessions. I dont really care if you take my word for it, but you cant ignore, that thats what they have said. So you expect them to do a full turn because... you want them to? And you say im trolling, when im trying to make you understand, whats WGs goal of the rework? btw: teamsupport when out of the window when they removed fighters. Again, blame WG, not me, just telling you why its futile to whine like you do. Its here to stay - deal with it. Thats prolly the "make CVs easier and more accessable" part working as intended. You need to recheck what "trolling" is. You have it wrong. More and more people are going back to play RTS CVs. Watched a live stream this morning. Good times. Yes. But you forget one thing: Fighters. Before, the fighters stopped you from just flying in. The sheer existance or the possiblity of their existance stopped CVs from going in at free will. I paied special attention this morning, when watching RTS CVs face each other. 18:07 first red ship spotted. 18:01 : 4 ships spotted. Then nothing more for a long time, since he engaged in striking a target. Compare this to now: After 30-45 sec you usualy see 8+ ships on the map. Why? because the CVs start faster und fly in unchallenged. You pay for this fast and unchallened gameplay by flying into heavy AA. Thats what WG wanted: remove the interaction between CV-Players so that the better CV player stomps the bad CV player. Now they "can" (in theory) both go and impact the game. Is it bs? yep. Was it noted by the community before the rework went live? yep. Bottomline is: you cant change that with the current approach. The RTS CVs "insane striking power" is/was limited by the sheer existence of the enemy CV and the time it took the CV to cycle through his attacks.

Every CV can perfom well and contribute to the teams performance. The time of carry CVs is gone, weather we like it or not. Haku has the most problems atm tho. Tho it shows what IS possible. Its still very decent and with a WR >80% (I think mostly solo) showing, he has a huge impact on the game. and thats why its kinda useless to talk balancing right now. Nobody knows, how this change will actually play out. 2 floods for a duration of 20-30 sec actually deal more damage then 1 current flood for the same duration. - Edit: on a BB - Also I expect the flooding coefficient to be changed, so that we will see more floodings. But anyway, whats obvious (and ive said this from the start) is, that DoT of the new CVs and current DCP mechanics dont work well together. Thats the reason WG stomped flooding chances to the ground. Imagine you´d get the same number of floodings with the current CVs as you did with RTS CVs. It would be complete bs. btw: do we get an sincere appology now, after you checked those posts of dfens? mine are in there aswell.

Because Fighters are gone. As simple as that. Before, the counter to strike planes, have been Fighters. This role is completly on the surface ships now. Server stats: CVs still top damage on high tier last week. Server stats: CV top spotting damage by a long shot last week. Happened to RTS CVs aswell. Happens to many other classes aswell all the time.

He is right tho. You can never argue about balancing by only looking at your own numbers. And especially not by 1 game. This has never been and will never been accepted in any community. For a reason. Else I would need to argue, that Neptune needs a HUGE nerf - a lot of people would tell me, I lost my mind. Also, rightfully. Or, I could field this and say, T8 CVs are way too strong. Which I wont do, since what I said above applies. Well then how about we wait and see about next week? Also, please dont say "fall in damage even more" when the reality is, that all T10 CVs on all 4 servers increased in damage the last week - and by a big shot. About the comparision to other ships: Not sure why exactly you pick Des Moines as a benchmark. Couple of facts before we start discussing: - CVs are the fastest "ships" in game. They have the possibility to reach any point on the map to deal damage. - CVs are topping the score on spotting damage. You can see here, that this is very hard in favor of the CVs: http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190223/eu_week/average_class.html They produce almost the same spotting damage as pre-rework - can check here: http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20181208/eu_week/average_class.html Lets move over to drawing conclusions: So, we have a class, that provides spotting superior to the class, that is advertised as spotters, the DDs. They also have, in theory, the advantage in picking targets over DDs. The only thing, that DDs have in favor, is contesting objectives. DDs in return deal low damage, because of their stealth (goes for CVs aswell), speed (goes for CVs aswell) and spotting (CVs are better at it). On top, CVs are superior in survivability. Connecting the dots, CVs should rather be closer to DDs in the damage numbers then to cruisers. The thing is, im sure you will attack me for that. But all im trying to tell you is this: You obviously think, CVs should be superior damage dealers, as you are not happy with the current numbers. You think, Haku needs to be a lot better and even Midway should deal more damage. Thats not how WG sees it. Theyve said it multiple times. They also have access to much better numbers then we have. So, think about it: why did we see 0.8.0.3 the way we saw it? Because WG still thought, CVs are too strong. So dont get your hopes up in thinking, that class will be buffed.

Erm. Well. Its obvious, you hated the RTS CVs. But... I think you let your hate for the old CVs blind your judgement on how bad the new CVs are for the game overall.

Nah im at T8. But thx for asking.

So many angry claims - and not one is true - amazing . That PS thing was a) 4 games if anything and b) and avg of 189.421 after patch 8.0.3. #details btw: CVs highest avr damage last week http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190223/eu_week/average_class.html

Here is a new theory: Making a rework that suxx > cheaper then giving cash refunds for premium CVs when remove class.

For someone, who is so critical of other peoples post by downvoting them, you sure write some bs yourself. Quote me where I said that. You cant. kkthxbye. Thats pretty much where we came from with RTS CVs. And I agree with you. I think its wrong, that the new CVs invade the territory of DDs so hard and counter them at the same time. I never saw anything wrong in the way RTS CVs carry out their attacks. It took them time to prepare and they had to watch out for the enemy CV and his fighters. Now - CVs pass by each other 30 sec into the game, while the pilots of the planes pretty much wave friendly at each other. This is once again the result of what i call "hero or zero" gameplay, that was introduced with the rework. You have to look at the broader picture. When you say, we are missing the point, then thats not entirly correct. I get what you say and I dont even disagree on the general direction. Like seriously, how could you disagree, when the key argument pretty much is "skill needs to matter". But with the simplefied mechanics we are down to 0 or 1 as the result. Lets play your example through with a RTS CV. A skilled RTS CV player could drop a mino. It was hard but possible. So he could win. A not so good CV player - not so much. Especially when he didnt knew about manual attack, the Mino could dodge. Also - it did matter, how the Mino was skilled. Without AFT/BFT, the chances for not so good CV players to get through, was higher. Same if the Mino player wasnt good. He might not be able to dodge the torps. So the outcome wasnt that clear. I can speak from experiance, since I did face some of the best RTS CV players with my Mino and eventhough I knew what I was doing, they were able to get damage through on me. Lets change the Mino in the example with a DM. Then the picture becomes even clearer. With def AA, the DM had the advantage. In theory. The CV could always bait the def AA, retreat, wait for it to go on cooldown and then attack again. Bad DM players were easy to bait into using def AA. Just scratch on their max AA range, check if they activated and escape pretty much unharmed. Now. Better DM players waited for the right moment, so let the CV get into his range, when returning isnt possible anymore. Also, bad CV players might now be aware of all of this. So you get very mixed results depending on the skill of both players. Ive seen really interesing mind games, where a CV would try and bait my or my divisionsmates def AA quite a few times. It even went so far, that we started to chat while doing that. Sometimes I won, sometimes he won. And thats totaly ok. This is all gone and i think it hurts the game. This "grayzone", where the skill of both players comes into effect, is gone or better: turned into 1 or 0. Which brings me to: The problem, from my point of view, is even before that. The mechanics of the rework are so one-dimensional, that it doesnt allow for encounters, which will be decided upon the skill of the players. There is pretty much one thing left, that matters, and thats how good the CV player is in using the tools he has. If you check the stats: there are some people around doing the same thing with the new CVs as the best RTS CV players did before. Even more. When someone manages to get an avg of 246.000 damage, 2,31 avg kills and a WR of 83,33% in Midway over 36 games then I have to question, what exactly are we taking about here. Those people obviously have figured out, how to play with these new CVs. You lower the AA - those people will even have more of a field day. So thats pretty much confirmation, what I say: Once you figure out how to play around AA, how to select targets - nothing is stopping you. If you dont figure this out - even ships with lowest AA and bad players will shut down a CV. On the other side of the stats we see people, hardly getting 20k avg damage out of the Midway. Before, the absolute worst player ever recorded in Midway has an avg dmg of 27,5k. So we are setting records at both ends at the same time. Hero or Zero anyone? So, instead of closing the skill-gap, we are seeing a wider skill-gap. The only way to adress this (my humble opinion), is to lower the frequency of the attacks. This will also attack the spotting, which is problematic in the eyes of many people. In return, you could either a) raise alpha damage (as you suggested in your first part of the post) or b) make attacking easier. Will WG do it? Guess not. Their remarks about "CV gameplay needs to face paced and full of action" seems to imply, they are happy with the fast waves, that the new system allows. And, to some degree, we would be moving towards the direction of old RTS CVs again. Which I personally would absolutly welcome.

You are not suppose to attack a Mino. Why do you try? Its like DDs attacking radar cruisers. Part of the rework goal was to lower the impact of CVs on the outcome of the match. So WG create ships, that you cant take down on your own. btw: if your team cant deal with a Minotaur, literally the easiest to kill ship in the game, then your side doesnt deserve to win... and if you are in a 1vs1 situation left with him: why do you think, you must win? tbh: you will win most of 1vs1 situation, if you are left with your CV against some other ship. Its completly ok, that there are certain situations, that you dont win.

Thats the way to present facts. I hope you took notice @Zlaraki. You start with facts and then build an opinion based on that. Not round the other way. Now lets dig into, what we see: All CVs avg damage rises on all servers and pretty steep aswell. Thats what Ive said during the last weeks: people need to learn this completly new class. Some need more time, others are already pretty decent at it. Its hard to tell at this point, where the celling is. You´d expect, that once you figured the controls (super basics) and how to dodge the AA (advanced gameplay) out, you can start to perform decent with the class. If your dont master those two however, you will fail misserably. Its actually visible, when you look at the top and bottom performs. Some players are setting new all time low-records... which actually makes me question, if WG isnt missing the mark on making the class more accessable for new players. But do not ask me, how to change that. Ive always critized the rework for beeing very "hero or zero" in that terms. Either you manage, or you dont. Tweaking the AA-values down by a couple of percent will change absolutly nothing about it. The bad / new players will still fail as misserably as they do now. In that sense - the RTS CVs have been more "newcomer friendly"? Auto-attacks (as much as I disliked them) yielded atleast somewhat of a success. And now I will go into prediction mode: Since WG must have based the recent adjustments on the same numbers (I expect them to be more detailed, ofc) that we are using, and we all know, how the last hotfix looked like - expect the Midway to be nerfed somehow. The reason? Damage and avg kills are rising. When they stated before, they are "pretty close" to the final version, I was sure, we would only see small adjustments with the second hotfix. So it came. Also, I was pretty sure, they´d rather nerf CVs, while a lot of people were hoping for a (massive) buff. Dispite the nerfs, people managed to raise the numbers. So with the development of the numbers in mind, I expect Midway to be nerfed in the close future. Before anyone hates on me (as when I made the other predictions): this is not my opinion. This is what I see WG doing. Im just telling this, so that people arent too dissapointed, when the opposite of what they hope for, will happen. The number of games played accoring to the same source @CptMinia was using, for the last week is this: Midway - 17968 Hakuryu - 6976 So yea, Midway it he go-to-CV atm. But the numbers are in no way paining a picture, that Haku is completly useless. If you were into looking at server stats a while longer, you´d know that. Want me to show you something? Have a look at this. Also, last week: Z-52 - 3838 games - damage: 36668 Shimakaze - 27191 games - damage: 47424 Gearing - 10724 games - damage: 42499 So, I invite you to join me in pushing for buffs on Z-52. The state of that DD, compared to the Midway/Haku-case is much more worse. Since you care about balancing, this should take you attention...

More and more games end like this. 2 days ago we had such a stalemate and I knew with 4:30 on the clock - we lost. It was our divis CV alive and the enemy CV alive, both full health. Red team was ahead with 80 points or something. We watched the time go by and nothing happened... The result of creating a class, that has low alpha and is very well protected from each other. This is actually created by the rework, it didnt exists (to that extend) before. I wonder how WG will adress that...

Yea... you are right about all of that. Sadly. Because I really, honestly believe, the game is much better, if it would support different approaches to be (economically) effective. Ofc this is not easy to achieve either. But other games / genres manage this aswell. Think of (MMO)RPGs, where a healer would constantly receive the lowest rewards because... he didnt deal much damage. So its possible, if WG would want it. Their actions pretty much show, they dont want. So im argueing with a brick wall, and im even aware of that. By no means - this should count for all classes. Ive been preaching this on behalf of DDs forever. The rework would actually be a good time to push the game into that direction tho. For a couple of reasons. First and foremost - we are in a testing phase anyway, as stated by WG. So they could test with the XP-multiplier for spotting at the same time. I mean, they removed rewards for shooting down planes and achievements, since they need to get the numbers right first. So we are actually getting less XP atm then we "deserve". Also, since a lot of players are learning / playing around with CVs, and thus dont perform that good (yet), there would be nothing wrong with increasing reward for spotting, right? And, last but no least, it would be a way to ease the effect of beeing 2 tiers low for CVs. We see a lot of complaints about beeing in T10 games as a T8 CV. And since WG doesnt want to put +/-1 mm in the game, no matter how much we ask for it, giving more rewards for spotting would help, right? I mean, if you are in that situation and on top of that the enemy team plays it smart in the current meta (aka blobb & lemming around the map), its hard to get decent results in terms of credits / XP. So you increase spotting rewards, you make these games atleast economically viable for those players. That would actually fall in line with WGs statement, that in these games, CVs need to adjust to the situation. This way, they actually could adjust, be usefull AND go home with something to show for.

I actually had to do this once. While I was constantly insulted from one guy on my team for beeing a newb... @zengaze ranked is just a toxic gamemode. When you are still in the area, where you cant drop that much in ranks, its somewhat acceptable. But lets face it: most people dont play ranked, because its fun, but because we want the rewards. Thats why you feel you are waisting your time, when you play a couple of hours and have actually lost ranks. And it kinda is waisted time. So if you make your peace with that, then you have a somewhat better time in ranked. Or, you are like me, and cant get yourself to play ranked at all anymore

Rumors have it, I cant count to 3. Wonder where that comes from

No - im telling you: if you want to have a serious discussion, you use honest statistics. If I compare my yearly income with statistics from african countries, I can claim im super rich. If I change the statistics and use numbers from Luxemburg - I can claim im super poor. Neither of that has any impact on my daily life tho.

I think its pretty safe to say, that im right and you are wrong when you call a damage increase from 65.212 to 70.304 "sinking pretty fast" and I say its round the other way. That happens when you are busy taking care of your cat at the same time. I corrected the 26 to 16 btw right away. You would have saved time to look it up yourself. Your guess is wrong - my stats are correct. they always are. http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190216/eu_week/average_ship.html http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190223/eu_week/average_ship.html

Taking about coincidence: Isnt it funny, you picked the 2 out of 4, which show the highest difference between Midway and Hakuryu? We all know what happened: You wanted to push a narrative and looked for the numbers, that suit your case. So you checked all 4 servers and picked the two, that fit your story the most. Do you really think everyone here is stupid? But not only that. There is more wrong with your story. Ill quote: 23/02/2019 : - Hakuryu Winrate: 48.59 Dmg: 70 304 16/02/19 - Hakuryu Winrate: 47.56 Dmg: 65 212 Hakuryu is actually up in WR and damage. Unless that means "sinking pretty fast" in your words.

You? prove me wrong? lol. When did that happen - in another forum maybe? Just face it: NA und Asia stats are irrelevant here. You know nothing about the meta there and the stats from there dont change a bit here. If you want to discuss asia meta - open a forum account there. They have their own forums. I wont be "meddling" with your threads there. Just dont post EU stats there to try make a point.

You simply cant compare old CVs and new CVs. They are different classes. Besides the name, they have nothing in common anymore. You arent comparing your stats from DDs to BBs and focus on looking at the damage, right? Also, skills from old CV to new CV did not transfer. You might have been awesome with the old CVs and only mediocre with the new CVs. That doesnt say anything about the two classes. Some people are awesome with DDs and suck in BBs. Doesnt tell anything about those two classes either. So we have 5 classes. DD/cruisers/BB/old CV/new CV.

Psst. Dont destroy his nice fairy tale. He needs to push his narrative. Now whats the describtion thats missing here? Anyone can guess?

I agree with @wilkatis_LV and @ColonelPete - this looks normal for Missouri (Iowa). For what you can tell from those screens. Play some Normandie and you will kill for that Iowa-dispersion. Needed 4 salvos yesterday to kill the stationary König with 2k health in the OP. And right before that, my back turret missed one of the onshore installations completly.

Oh I am blaming them. But at the same time im trying to gather people and make them see, that there is a better way to play this game - if WG finaly agrees with that. So lets all gather in our crusade to get f.e. spotters the rewards they deserve. Here are some pitchforks.

100% on the money.