ForlornSailor

No, im not presuming it, I know it. The stats show it. There are people, doing 80 to 95% WR in Midway f.e. with constantly beeing between 150k und 250k damage. Playing solo, mind you. So they know what they do and how they need to do it. Unless you have another explanation for those people, ill stand with my conclusion. About the economics: Ive already agreed with the facts you presented on that part and added more proof to back you up and marked MrConway for you. That WG doesnt want to act (now), eventho the facts are on the table, is hardly my fault. Yup. Called it & nailed it.

The stats, that we have access to, paint a different picture. Especially when I look at the lower end of the stats: Couple of weeks only and the bar is way lower then it used to be. 3000 damage on the Lex, for a class, that can attack quite often without anything from preventing those attacks itself. So we can only assume those people fail while attacking. Why? Is it still too hard to control CVs? hardly. But it makes sense. Those people, that do not know how to play around Flak, how to select targets - they have no chance on the high tiers. Do you (as in WG) plan to adress that, if yes, how? I can only see this done via reducing flak-damage and in return increasing continous damage but I somehow get the feeling, CV-players (the good ones, to be more specific) would be very unhappy about this.

I dont think they are suppose to reach the same level anymore. But imo, looking at the average damage doesnt tell the true story. Not only because of the ongoing changes, that throw the balance back and forth every week (which is already one reason tho anyway) but also because we have a huge skill gap atm. There are so many people face rolling in their Midway, dragging the avg dmg down while at the same time, some guys rush from one damage record to the next. WG should somehow adress this first, before doing anything else, also, since they specifically made this one of their main goals of the rework. This has so far failed.

Well, not neccesarily. But in his case - yea. But what if I tell you also, that he is actually talking about... coop ? Thats right :) But he has some guts. Calling 13 505 avd damage in coop "playing well".

I already answered that:

There are way more options than those two. I bought the GC so I can division up with someone, who plays Marblehead. Now you can argue all you want, if GC has no probs at T8 or does, but I dont think you can deny, that I will not be able to division up with said player anymore. Unless you think bringing a Marblehead to T8 and constantly throw it under the bus is a good idea.

Well. My sound is at times gone. Was just playing half a round in silence.

Uh...yea? exactly? Did you quote the wrong person? It fits as an answer to this:

Not true. Well if you want to be correct, there are players with 94,44% solo WR in Midway. True, thats not 80% solo WR. Can we please stick to the facts and not try to bend the narrative or sweep things under the rug, just because we might not like what the facts show? Skill gap is bigger then before. Its just a fact. Old Midway didnt enable people to have such a high AND low average damage. Some people fail completly, others are unstoppable. Skill gap.

Sorry to tell you that, but Ive been in Division with him, when he broke 200k dmg with new CVs. Couple of times actually... Your remarks are down right insulting. Ive enjoy playing against RTS CVs. Ive made a unicum Kaga cry and flame with my Benson, since i ruined his game. A few people in my team where actually cheering on the expence of said player. I always ran AA-builds on my cruisers and DDs. I ran C-Hull on Farragut, Mahan and Benson and hardly ever had a CV in my division. Can you gasp the fact, that I enjoyed playing against RTS CVs? And that there are others like that too? Because the entire concept of RTS CVs did fit more into this game then the current one. Thats what dfens example about the CV resetting his Worcester was about - you didnt get it tho. Saw Fara play CN server last week. A Schorchs was capping his base. He couldnt reset it because his planes took too long to cycle AND the red CV did send some fighters to slow down his bombers. But you will just react snarky again. And? A BB can do it. A DD can do it. Hell a Cruiser can do it, I effin blabbed Cruisers with my Moskva on max range 2 mins in the game. Whats your point? Idiots get deleted. You filed this in the same post, as an argument against RTS CVs, when you mentioned "gitgut" to other people??? wtf? PS: RTS CVs deserved to delete any idiot. What arguments? Is this an argument: If you think so, then you dont need me to shut you down, you do fine on your own. And you dont seem to read any of my nor dfens posts. Else you would say such bs like "Come up with something that could better the gameplay for everyone". I havent seen you write anything else then "gitgud" and the above quoted non-sense recently. Which part of your post is constructive? When you told @Besserwisser3000 he lives in a cave? And newbs dont have Midways? LOL ! Did you copy that argument from a Stalingrad-thread? How do you explain this? https://wows-numbers.com/de/ship/4179605488,Midway/?order=average_damage_dealt__desc&p=4 17k avg damage. Man he really is something compared to Montana-players! The facts are correct (thats in the word you know, fact). You just dont like em.

I noticed that today aswell. Im just too tired too make a fuzz about all of it anymore. Go on WG, do w/e you want. You do it anyway. But dont expect me to fund you anymore.

That all you got? Marking my post as boring and claiming false stuff? Im playing them just fine. Told you couple of times. The one who is biased seem to be you. You insulted someone, who stated facts (!), that he is living in a cave, just because you didnt like what he had to say. Is this the level you are "discussing" now? You havent reacted to any of the facts presented, all you do is react snarky. Besides the point: its completly irrelevant, what someone can do or cant. With the same logic I can tell you: go and shoot down 100 planes with a Benson, because you claim AA is so OP. You cant do it? you dont play Benson? Well then you have no right to talk about anything AA-related. So that is a problem how? Or doesnt count for other classes how? How many games did I lose because my torps were on reload and I couldnt kill them all? This is a way too egocentric view. The fact, that we are discussing this point shows, that CVs are treated very differently. We arent talking about the numbers of torps a DD is sending per game or the number of BB salvos, somewhoe justifying their existence. Why? Because they do not survive 80% of the battles and have means to influence the game between the timeframe 19:30 to 00:00. This is seriously something, that only CVs can do. To be more specific: New CVs. RTS CVs couldnt.

Wrong. THEY had the crap team aswell. No division would do ~590k damage, get 3 caps and hardly has a scratch themself if the enemys had any brain at all. The exeption were the 2 other division mates of the CV and well, we took them out of the game so... Dont try to turn things when you were not there. http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190302/eu_week/average_ship.html Nothing he said is wrong. Everything he said is true for the last week only. Midway has more avg damage then Montana. Compared to DDs: 3x the suriviability - 2x the spotting damage - 2x the damage. Id call it a zero risk class. Sorry to say: but for the abilities, this class brings, which is: - Attack any ship at any time at any place - Be the last man standing because your hull is out of the danger zone (dont dare to mention idiots, that throw their CV away by either rushing ahead OR dont move at all) - Still the superior spotting class - stats are very clear on that they need nerfs. Or a complete change of the mechanics. The damage output is too high. Nobody would argue, that a Gearing should on avg deal more damage then a Montana. Because his stealth and speed is his advantage so he has to pay for it somehow. CVs need to pay for their advantages. I´d prefer to limit the range of the planes. Make the CV move into the danger area. No reason, CVs shouldnt have a survivability rate between cruisers and BBs. With that, the rest sorts itself. Nothing more bs then having 4 CVs at the end of the game, which happens all the time now!

Most likely Discord :) To be fair: Some sort of voice communication is good to learn and crucial for divisions, if you want to teamplay. You dont even need to talk that much if you dont want, I have a lot of random battles where I hardly talk at all - atleast about that round. Also, some clans dont requite you to be in voice comms every time you play together. Thats how we do it. If someone cant or dont want to for some reason - totaly fine. But if you never want to use voice comms, that thats a no-go for many clans, thats true.

Nothing was wrong with it. Thats why it had to go. At some point, all the maps will be the same and play the same. Its like the Okinawa change - sure, it wasnt the best map but it was diverse and different at the same time. In the early days, I disliked Okinawa. Until you knew, how different ships excel on different positions. Now its like most other maps, which makes the game, well, boring and repetetive :|

Yup the flooding chance should be raised and adressed seperatly. But this wont make you get Liquidator any easier, if you think about it. Like the math for the cruisers wont change at all, with the small exception of CVs, since their alpha could be that low, that they actually could farm it. And as a DD harvesting a BB for a Liquidator... the torpedo reload comes into play aswell as the alpha strike. So realisticly you´d need atleast 3 floods on 2 occasions, both of the times the DCP needs to be on cooldown and you still need the 40% BB Health to farm, so nobody else can deal that much damage inbetween. Will be really hard. Maybe in the endgame if a DD combos with a CV, no other HE-spammer or BB is around, and the BB uses his DCP against the DoT of the CV, yes.

I pretty much got an extra salvo from the +5 sec longer radar, that Moskva got now. In combo with the longer range, that made it possible to kill the DD. I couldnt have killed him before the change. And yes, as a bonus, the Moskva reload synced pretty nicely with the radar of the Mino. Its less than a sec wasted, since the reload is actually 9,1, so it all sums up to 39,3 sec within the 40 sec timeframe (to be fair: in only noticed this fitting so well, when I put the numbers together for this post. In the game it was just a gross estimation "I think I should do it now")

Thats not how it works. People gather likeminded people around themself. Also they influence each other. Thats why within a group you will have likeminded people = not representative. You want to come to our Discord? You will be close to a 100% "bring back RTS CVs".Thats why you make public polls and prestend them to everyone. Public poll > opinion of friends.

Its not the question that I care about. But obviously, if you need an answer: not enough?

Not really. Couple of things more: - Our division scratched on 600k dmg in that round. six - hundred ! All enemy surface ships with the exeption of the Worcester and the Kurfürst, that where in the divi with the CV, were utter potatos. - Some CV players have 80% WR. solo. SOLO. I dont see anyone in RAIN with a WR in new CVs as yours. So you are the better Player. And won. Thank you for proving my point I guess?

I went to play one round of coop after reading this topic. This is what happened...

With the expetion of DDs this is pretty much the same as removing it. One things is really amazing tho: So WG didnt know that is possible? And/or didnt knew that is a thing ever since... Minotaur was introduced to the game?

Yes, I had those two things in mind when gathering the infos for the OP. But I didnt want to make it overly complicated. But those are even more reasons, why Liquidator is almost impossible to get now. Whats WG thinking about this anyway? @MrConway? Will the achievement be corrected as in made easier or totaly reworked?

@DFens_666 and @MortenTardo well first I can confirm the CV resetting dfens, because I was there. I had to rush into the cap aswell, to finaly secure it and help dfens with AA so we might have a chance to win (me beeing Henri). Leaving the discussion aside, what a CV should do and not or what a Worcester should do and no: Skill gap between the CVs won the game. Nothing else. And WG said "we want to reduce skill gap between CVs and reduce their impact on the outcome of the match." Yup. worked perfectly. So far, in the rework, I lost every CV game, where my CV was the worse player, from the stats. So you know from the start, which side is going to win. Rework failed.

Its at 199k during the last 7 days now. Cant argue with that.