ForlornSailor

I dont agree. Because those stats include the hords of braindeads, that cant dodge flak, cant drop, cant target select. If anything, the stats are a prove, how bad the rework is. Those turds are actually balancing the rework, because they give the impression, that CVs are not strong. And you see, those bad players are bad every game! Unlike in RTS, when they could atleast get damage in games when the enemy CV is bad too. And that happened quite often. Im sure, you might like and defend the rework, but this point - you can not argue about. Its a) logical and b) supported from the overall server stats. If anything, your stats only show, that good players now get even better results because they manage to raise the avarage, which is dragged heavily down by bad players. Is this the way we balance things now? We have 60% of players that are completly useless, so that there is a small group farming away and in the end we get a "decent avarage" and can point to that saying "everything is fine"?

Because the player base overall is r******! And we should be happy they are. Imagine, the majority of the players would reach 80% of the skills of el2a.While I wouldnt say that its easy to become that good its certainly not impossible. Then each round had a couple of hardcore CVs and the game would be belly up by now. And before you say, that this would have been the case with RTS CVs aswell: nope. Because they had fighters, which slowed them down massivly. Watch some youtube videos back then from fara when he played against other super unicum CVs. They couldnt strike for MINUTES because they were busy dealing with each other.

The funny thing is, that these days, high tier cruisers are the stronger ones of that class. Back in the days, it was rather the opposite. So I dont even know whats the message WG is trying to send. something like "hey, had a shitty time playing Karlsruhe? Well, too bad. Take Smolensk and start shitting on others. literally."

Nice talk. But. Did I? I didnt. Quite the opposite.

And if we do, the game is dead. Or theyll add bots to farm. Not that it would matter at some point. The irony is, that the communitys ship jesus spearheaded the pro-rework faction - out of hate for RTS CVs. And we all know, once he approves of something, all his sheeple will follow (to the holy land, that we have now). Praised be the lord. And better: the rework made BBs even stronger and more influential, while making DDs and Cruisers bend over. Because thats exactly what the game needed.

Yea there is only a handful CVs that can do that to me. gj implying something in my message that is not there. Also, you might want to think twice about your wish, that good players should deinstall. Youll be left with braindead border campers and YOLO suiciders. But if you enjoy a game like that...

Yea? Thats the propper way to play? Look at the "funny things with screenshots" topic - you will regulary see posts, where one entire team blobbs up on the corner of the map. Such awesome gameplay. Ignoring the objetives, giving up control over 95% of the map and losing the game within 6 mins - BUT SURVIVED - THANK GOD!! Seriously, if thats the direction the game is going, im going to deinstall. Waste of time.

In theory this sounds awesome. But you know as good as I do that this is not how our community works. Also, I know OP a little and he is not a bad player. So disregarding his complain and pushing it into a "l2p" corner does not cut it either. Im sorry, but at some point this has to be pointed out. Cruisers in specific are beeing shat on for ages and it gets worse and worse. I can now ride around in my masterrace BB on low tiers without beein afraid of anything. My Orion takes out the engine of cruiser at 14 km, putting them defensless and dead in the water, because their range is 11 km. The CV can do the same, cycling so fast, that there is no such thing as managing damage control. Especially since low tier cruiser have no health and no heal. Losing half your health (if you are lucky you manage to escape) effectivly ends your game. What happens if a BB gets hit by CV strikes? he just repairs. Or he gets zero damage in the first place, when RN bombs drop on you or the rockets go into your belt. gg. Can you maybe for once turn off your radio-style message "everything is fine" and admit that over the years especially cruisers have been shafted on low(mid) tiers like nothing else? Playing a cruiser (with no smoke) is hard work these days and still you live in constant fear, that a CV or BB can ruin your day in one click.

Thats not a general answer. Just because the better players are able to make it work doesnt make the situation fine and dandy. You should know that we need the average player aswell to fill the games. Its not even about having fun - have you thought about, how the economy looks like for a DD player that goes down 120 sec into the game with 0 dmg and 180 XP? And with all those low tier CVs, a lot of them clubbers, this is a common situation right now. And your solution for people, that cant deal it (blobbing up, staying behind etc what you suggested), is horrible! Is THAT the gameplay we want to see? All ships reversing, turning 180° at spawn, developing a "you go first!" mentality? Because why would any other ship go first then if nobody else moves? If you havent notice, players are often like sheeple in this game. Some just follow other ships in their vicinity. And if they lead them to the mapborder, then thats where the trip is going! And the problem is: we actually have this mentality already. Its visible on T10 where nobody wants to move ahead anymore because they are afraid. But maybe you like this kind of "I sit at A9 behind the island because I can" gameplay. Thats what im getting from your posts here. Other then that - if Id like to play a low tier cruiser/DD and im dependent on the rest of my fleet to move perfect so that I have a chance (!) then the question: why would I play a DD/cruiser is definatly in place.

Play masterrace instead. Seriously.

Block dutch IPs from buying any containers that the law defines. People from Belgium cant buy any of those boxes in wows since the law is in place. No matter how old you are.

As above - was pretty much introduced the same moment they "removed" stealth firing. I made a video back then explaining it.

I wouldnt buy / have more then 1 year premium account. Its pretty much 100% guarenteed, that atleast one per year you´ll get a chance to get some cheap premium time. Plus you might have access to premium time through other means, like supercontainers / missions or even clan wars at some point. So rather invest in a ship, because that gives you fun right away. There are a lot of really good ships available, but it all comes down to what you like to play. I enjoy DDs recently so T-61 is a must have in my book. But yea, thats my personal opinion.

Only more then a decade? I already played World of Warships back in 1936 - using my Yamato ofc! @Tvardilivadi do as adviced above and if problem still is there, post screenshots of the error message. Because im not sure at which point you are getting this message.

Thats exactly what I was hinting at. Im not even sure if this qualifies as skill. The hardest part about it was to figure it out. And thats not really a tough nut itself. Its an "I win and there is nothing you can do about it" style - and those are always wrong. Its also the speed of those HE spammers AND the mass of ships using it. I will now voice an opinion, that so far has been laughed at: BBs, focusing on HE, can be more effective then using AP. Ive been effed a couple of times now, because I was under HE spam + CV focus, which itself still was managable but then there came one or two BBs firing HE on top of that, and you are left with 3 perma fires. Nothing you can do. The "fire damage is 100% repairable" is a mere fun fact, when you already used your DCP to put out 2 fires and a flood and have your heal on cooldown, because you let the first 2 fires ran through.

Thats only true if the Smolensk are driven by strong players. They would have prolly steamrolled your team with other ships aswell. 3 noobs in Smolensk are completly useless unless your BBs are even more stupid - in which case, its hard to argue, that your team should take the win... Other then that: This however is true. Smolensk and alike wage sort of a "psychological warfare". Some people are already frightened just be seeing the ships name on the start screen - not even thinking, that there might be a total newb in that ship. So on that point, I will actually agree - ships like that are bad for the game. Not primarily because of their strenght, but of the way they fight. But for me, thats just another reason to avoid T10 (or anything starting T8, since mm) more and more. Which is a shame, since the ships are awesome and offer so much diversity in gameplay. One of the reasons, last clan brawl was a nice experiance. I dont even find playing Smolensk myself fun. Most people play it as a BB farmer, harvesting tons of (somewhat useless) damage. Thise people miss, where Smolensk really is OP - shredding DDs. I should prolly not even mention that fact...

lol. You havent realized the full potential of Bourgogne then.

Perfect description of an OP ship.

Because even what he makes up there is so one-dimensional and ignores 75% of thats going on - its hilarious.

Where is the enemy team and your own CV in your big picture? Missing? aah ok.

That however is completly in line with all changes over the years. Back in the days, you could literally smoke your entire fleet as a US DD and go ahead of the smoke to spot for them while they oblierate everything. A lot of people whined about that, because they were too stupid to make use of this very simple teamwork themself. btw: WG removed the heavy influence of CV-AA-Divisions together with the rework - by nerfing the captains skills into the ground. Im 100% positive that this was done to stop Midway/Worcester/Minotaur or similar divisions. To be fair: Bad CV players wont touch your french DD on T4/T5 (if you know how to dodge as a DD). They are fast and you can manouver with speed and rudder a lot. Ive played the Jaguar twice, bouth 2x CV games and had no choice but to push for the CVs, since they would not leave me alone. Eventually, I did to them was they did to me - perma spot them for my team to shoot. And down the drain they went. Was hardly fun for me tho and talking about economics, which is a huge factor for most players in this game - those two games were not viable, as you can guess:

And thats exactly what I keep talking about. @Kutfroat think about it: this system is build and balanced around guarenteed attack runs. The better the player, the more often he can strike. Ofc beeing so good, that you know how to dodge flak and which target to strike then usualy goes along with beeing really good at hitting the target and select the right type of attackplanes for each target. IF the system would be balanced, that there is a huge chance for not getting ANY attack through, there would be only one way to reach his: increase AA. Or, well, to be precices, you could also lower planes health. If you would do this, you might aswell delete CVs because they are useless. This is the absolute core problem of this rework, im pointing it out since day 1. CVs should and need to do damage to be effective. There is only one way to stop them from doing that and thats the surface ships AA. The other thing is learing how to play the CV, which comes down to target selection, knowing how to dodge flak, learing how to drop the different weapons correctly. Positioning and cycling as fast as possible is already fine tuning for super unicums. Well, there is spotting but from the stats, we have access to, it only affects Winrate, so ill leave this out of the picture. So, you see @Kutfroat its against the very basic concept of these new CVs, that they would lose (many) planes before their strike. Yet many CV players still manage to throw away their planes because lack of skill. And it looks like WG is using this lack of skill of the general playerbase as a tool to balance the class. There was a learing curve during the first months, which saw avg damage of CVs increase. Thats normal and to be expected for a new class. So each time WG buffed the AA a little to balance it out. I have to say, its such a stupid approach. If you would apply this to other classes/ships, Wargaming would have to increase the reload of Bourgogne to 58 sec or lower its health to 35.000 because that would also be balancing around the playerbase. TL;DR: If you take away guarenteed attack runs, CVs become useless. Even raising the AA by some degree will only throw off the worst players over the cliff - those are already right now no threat to any player. And the best players will work around it as long as its viable to use it. Its not balancebale because it needs a third factor. So in the core, what Kutfroat is asking for, is to shut down even the best players so that they cant stike any longer. This is equal to a request of deleting the class.

For a good player, T4 / T5 is no real problem right now, thats true. And a real sealclubber will make your life hard in any ship - which was kinda my point aswell ^^ I actually had insane games in Isokaze against double CVs. But that also due to the lack of skill on the CVs side, skilled players overall, experiance of those players and also lack of high skilled captains. btw: I actually prefer to play Kongo these days instead of Cesare, the bigger health pool, higher speed and huge range makes it easier to push down a CV if thats needed. Like here:

What actually is funny, that you chose to pick me and try to make this point. I for one am very vocal talking about both ends of the CV rework. I mentioned it many times over the last months, but I will do it again. CV rework increased skill gap. This is visible in the stats of the worst players. Here we have - once again - the worst RTS Midway players: And now we look at the worst players in the reworked Midway: No kills, no damage and big surprise: they make their team lose as hard as before! Actually, its even worse. One guy has 1665 avg damage in 99 games. Thats 164.835 in all 99 games combined - you know what? Thats a staggering 50k+ short of what the best Midway players do in one game. And why is that? Because the rework is two dimensional. There is no third factor anymore. Before, that third factor was the enemy CV with his fighters. A bad RTS Midway facing a unicum CV player was shut down, having a shitty game. But in return, he had games against other bad RTS CV players, where he could attack, because the enemy was bad at using fighters. These days - a bad CV player is always shut down. Because they dont know how to dodge flak. And if you dont know that, any ship will shred your planes. As the stats above show. And you cant balance that. I said this from day one. For those guys at the end of the stick - AA is horribly overpowered. And they whine in the forums from time to time. Yet for the best players, AA is a joke. End of story. So next time you quote someone and accuse him of cherry-picking arguments to make it fit a narrative - make sure you chose one, that actually suit that picture. Because it sure as hell aint me. thank you.