DFens_666

I dont understand the question. Since the topic is about german BBs taking IFHE, but you are talking about Cruiser, im not sure what kinda answer you are looking for. I assume you are talking about Cruiser IFHE, then the answer is, Light Cruisers with 152mm guns generally need IFHE to penetrate BB armor. On T5-7 they get 25mm pen (BBs usually have 26mm plating) and on T8-10 they get 30mm pen, but BBs tend to have 32mm plating. Cruisers can pen each other without IFHE, except T6+7 Cruisers vs T8-9 Cruisers in some cases. So you either get more direct damage with lower firechance, or less direct damage with higher firechance, whatever you prefer. Its not as clear cut anymore, as the penalty for IFHE is quite severe (halfs your firechance)

What ive been observing is, that despite taking 3 slots with a division, that our team usually has less clan players than the enemy team... which is really odd, since we already take up 3 slots. Normaly you would expect, that we have slightly more clan players, but often its the other way around. Not saying that being in a clan is any indication of being a skilled player, but that is something which has cought my eye, and i dont know what to make of it. Especially since the reality is different than the expected outcome.

Might aswell roll your face over your mouse and see what you get IFA and PT is probably overkill, but what else to take for last point (id take LS first btw). You might not need RPF if you only play smoke, but for radar Mino its very valuable. If someone wants to play it as a torpboat, you could think about the 15% extra damage... Sklling for AA is not something id do either, but can be considered if someone fancies it.

So ive killed a Belfast 1v1 in my Marblehead, that means Marblehead OP, Belfast UP. You see why that is irrelevant? Odin is also a very exclusive BB, which most people could not get. You might aswell say, Odin is almost as good as Massa... lel The problem is, Cruiser players (more like, people playing Cruisers, people who are good and play Cruisers properly actually understand that) often dont understand how to angle properly. Thats why, playing BB is so hilariously easy: Bow in = profit, hardly anything will happen. In case of Odin, basicly nothing will happen. Which is not the same for Ägir, as we already concluded. Problem is, if Ägir is properly angled, then nothing will happen, which is too hard for the playerbase. You start with 1v1s, then you say, 1v1s are irrelevant, following with quoting @lafeel saying, and i quote again So Neptune is in smoke, fine, but then Neptune ofc has someone spotting for Ägir. So i can give Ägir a Donskoi buddy to radar the Neptune in smoke and then Ägir can obliterate Neptune because overmatch. Back to overmatchable bow: If you dont fully bow on like a BBaby, then overmatching said bow gets trickier. Show side, turn in when BB is about to shoot and they will bounce on the belt. 99% of the BB players cant aim for the bow unless you point it right in their face.

And you really believe there are enough good players to match each other at all times? Usually this is even more tricky because they tend to come in 3x divs. So if you eventually get them, what happens if one div is playing Midway/Stalingrad/whatever BB, and the other Div is playing Massa/Cossack/Kutuzov. Steamroll win for the TX div, because the T8 side has 3x potato in TX ships instead, and TX ships will just steamroll over the T8 div.

Hightier DD (preferably T9 to have a better chance for a no-CV game) and it should be easier. If possible get a Cruiser in your div to shoot upon your spotting. Preferably one with smoke or one you can smoke up so he cant spot on his own Midtier tend to have a problem, that ships can spot each other, so you simply wont get spotting even if you are also spotting. But if a ship shoots, and is detected by everyone else shooting him, then you get nothing. SO best case is to have a Cruiser sitting behind an island or in smoke, which can farm upon someone elses spotting. Ranked can also work somewhat, just got 56k spotting with Pommern (or 150k with Smaland in randoms )

I think he could have just wrote the WR for all ships, since we would not be able to determine who he is. But i guess he didnt do it because there was only 1 player with >50% WR on his team lol...

Thats really 2 different things: - a DD being able to beat a Cruiser - Cruisers dealing more damage on average than any DD The latter should not be surprising at all, because Cruisers can farm BBs more consistently than DDs can torp or farm BBs. If a gunboat DD has enough opposition, he cant just farm an enemy ship, because dodging several enemies at once gets too tricky. However, dodging 1 or 2 ships shooting you is not that hard anymore. And thats where the other part comes into place: Some ships are only balanced in 12vs12 environments. Suddenly when facing smaller modes, like 7v7, they become much stronger. Are those ships really balanced then? I dont think they are, because WG can just release anything and call it balanced in 12vs12. The most obvious class being unbalanced in smaller gamemodes is ofc CVs. Same damage output, less "counter" aka ships/AA. But a couple of other examples: - Kiev vs most T8 Cruisers Kiev has a heal, which gives it basicly as much or even more HP than some T8 Cruisers. Doesnt have a citadel. Superior gunarcs compared to CLs, which atleast would have a chance to out-DPM the kiev, but will have a hard time actually hitting it. The Kiev just needs to start shooting the Cruiser and then start kiting to beat it. Cruiser has ofc the option to not shoot back, which means another 20 secs of getting farmed while dealing 0 damage on your own. - some 27mm T8 Cruiser (US/German) vs a 380mm caliber BB While their AP cant overmatch the Cruiser, i think they still have a better chance in beating that Cruiser than the Cruiser a DD in the above mentioned example. For T8, there are so many examples on how DDs counter Cruisers better than the other way around. Incidently, T8 is also a tier where some Cruisers have a chance to counter BBs... Back in the first 1v1 sprint on T8, i was playing Hipper and faced an Akizuki ones... yep 0 chance. When he spotted me, he just turned around and started farming me. His DPM was 2 leagues above mine.

And you base that on your vast experience playing Ägir? Im sorry, i gave you the stats, Ägir is compeating with ships like Neptune or Seattle, while Odin compeats with Vladi, Lenin, NC and Massa. Btw Odin beating Ägir in 1v1? LOL are you for real?! In which world would that happen. Is the Ägir just sitting broadside or what? Neither of them can overmatch each other with AP. So best bet for both is to start with HE. Ägir has better HE DPM thanks to reload, and it also has better dispersion, so it will hit more shells. But here comes the funny part: Ägir is shooting Odin with HE, everything is free real estate over here (except the Turrets ofc). Odin can only shatter Ägirs HE on its belt armor. Meanwhile, Ägir just laughs about Odins HE, because the entire belt cant get penned by Odins HE. So you can only go for Bow/Stern/Superstructure, which will get saturated, while Ägir gets to enjoy more full pens on all parts. So how is Odin supposed to beat Ägir please? Less HP, worthless armor compared to Ägir.

What a game again in ranked... Our Benson hits W, just suicides down the center never doing anything (no wonder he has less XP than all enemies despite the winbonus ) Got 83k on Georgia on the opening engagement, my Neptune doesnt smoke up to farm him, instead is open water gunboating. Later smokes in the cap, and dies to either blindfire or being proxyspotted by the Öland. Georgia and Baltimore just sit in C-cap, while all enemies are on A with me being alone now. Helping your team? [edited]YOU, im chilling mah ballz here,dude Props to the CV, who suicided into me In the dying moment, CV started a fire with his secondaries, which ofc got me killed. Alsace was farting HE, got permafire, CV is allowed to keep on dropping me 2 times after he is sunk to get another 17k damage in on me (and breaking my rudder) - BALANZEKOV!

Another one, which i think shows perfectly why Secondaries cant get buffed more: Just played a ranked game this morning, where i was almost alone on the flank vs 3-6 enemies (one of them was a CV). That was after 6:45. Had 83k on the Georgia, but because Neptune refused to smoke up earlier and instead was open water gunboating while i was spotting the Georgia, he got away. CV didnt manage to hit the Georgia while he had 4k HP... Neptune is now sitting in smoke, soon to be dead by blindfire (or maybe he was spotted because the Öland came over, not 100% sure), but either way he died. Luckily, my Amagi came over to help me at some point, only to die showing broadside If secondaries would be more lethal, i could just wipe them on my own. 55k with direct damage + fire is already pretty good. And i mostly died because everyone of them was shooting HE (166 HE hits / 8 AP) which caused me to perma burn pretty much. And ofc losing one of my torptubes permanently to that HE farting. The only ship which never moved over was the Edinburgh. Even the Tirpitz just came over to my side with full HP pretty much. Then at <1k HP, CV "secured" the kill from me. Same with Georgia ofc, i hit him again, he survived with like 2k and steamed into my snoring teammates on C-Cap.

I have no idea what WGs logic was behind buffing T8+ Cruiser deck armor. To help them against plunging fire, which doesnt even exist? So the only way to make use of thicker deck armor (which gets overmatched by most BBs anyway) would be to go completely bow/stern on, so the shells cant hit the citadel or overmatch the upper belt. But oh wait, they can just overmatch bow/stern to get pens or citadels So it really doesnt do anything. Not to mention, with Cruiser engagement ranges, BB shells usually come in at a 15-20° angle or so. Instead of buffing the deck armor, they should just buff the upper belt, like with Ägir. Ägir can bounce BB shells on its midsection, but most BBs can still overmatch its bow/stern armor. Proper angling would be rewarded. If a BB can aim well, he can still attempt to hit the bow/stern and go for overmatch there. If the area is too small, they could rework the cruiser armor to make the overmatcheable parts on bow/stern a bit bigger too. But atleast it would be possible to remove the "just hit anywere for damage"-mechanic we have right now. And while it would mean, Cruiser HE would probably shatter more often than now, that would only encourage using AP in Cruiser vs Cruiser battles. I think that would be good. So basicly the way it should be is, that being properly angled should be rewarded. If you sit broadside or bow on - you should get punished for that. Currently, everything is just RNG. You can get lucky and get overpens showing broadside, or get a 20k salvo while being angled. There is 0 consistency in the outcome really. At best you can say, being angled gives you a better chance of not getting stripped of half your health. I think the most hilarious thing is, how low BB citadels sit in the water compared to Cruisers. Unless a BB sits flat broadside at mid+range, good luck getting citadels in BB vs BB fights. Or if you face a Kremlin, good luck getting citadels on a flatbroadside one even at "closer" ranges (closER - not close, in case someone is showing a kremlin devstrike driveby or something...) The moment you have Cruiser citadels sitting fairly low in the water, BB players always complain about overpens and not getting citadels. Yet apparently its completely fine, if f.e. shooting a french BB at range results in overpens and torpedoprotection hits/shatters. Nah, not complaining, just giving an anecdote while i was writing that. Basicly you ignored the point and just focused on my example in that case. Some DDs can easily outgun Cruisers in 1v1s, especially on T8. The outcry from BB players when a Cruiser is able to do that... boy oh boy.

How? Ägir has: More health, maybe not comparable armor, but extremely good one for a Cruiser, almost same range, 5,4 sec better reload with reload mod, same guns as a Cruiser, basicly same concealment, better dispersion, Cruiser hydro, slightly better penetration on the AP and its faster. Odin has: a bit more AP damage per shell, can use spotter for more range (Ägir could ofc use rangemod so it has better range AND better reload all the time), turns a bit better and has better secondaries (for what its worth). Not sure how a BB-like ship in a Cruiser slot is worse than a BB in a BB slot

Yup, atleast a place where one can enjoy secondary ships Pommern is also fun in 3v3 Brawls, hope we get those soon again. Thats why i dont really see any reason to buff secondary ships: It wont work because of the meta. I think WG kinda knows that, thats why they made CQC, so that people might atleast get a buff to their mainbattery when they have ships in secondary range.

Thats 8 out of 10 games i played with those ships in ranked (4 georgia / 6 Pommern). The other 2 i didnt take screenshots, alltho i recall one of them i think i didnt get to use my secondaries at all or only very little (complete roflstomp loss, team suicided). so not really cherrypicked, when in almost all games i got to make use of em, is it? edit: oh wait, its actually 8 pommern games... still 8 out of 12. No 9 - found one more with Pommern.

We just need to look at T8 or T9 Clanbattles, where good clans are playing Kievs or Mogadors... if Cruisers could easily counter that, then noone would play such a setup. That Cruisers cant counter DDs well, even with radar, gets shown by this. Reminds me of playing Donskoi in CBs, while radaring 2 Kitas and a Jutland... lets just guess who died lol

I think it depends too much on the lineups to make a definit call on this. Lets say, you only have 1 DD, then throwing that one DD away to kill a BB is probably not that smart. On the other hand, if you have more DDs than the enemy, you might want to trade a DD for a BB.

We had the pleasure of CVs last time aswell ... i think Bismarck/Tirpitz are better just because they have more HP. Odin will die faster against everything. Not to mention the smaller caliber would be an issue against all Cruisers.

I agree with this. After playing only Bronze league in ranked, i feel im pretty lenient in which people i actually insult. If id insult every bad player, id insult my teammates 24/7 because they basicly always have sub 50% WR. But with some people, i just cant help myself. The worst are those, who are actively NOT playing the game. Who wants them anyway? And noone needs them either... Reminds me of that one guy in ranked, who kept ramming my ship from behind and using his horn, shoving me into torps and prohibiting me from angling/dodging shells. Calling me lil sh*t and complaining why i dont move full speed. Called him an ape - i think thats fair. The funnier part is, that he was a newbie with 500 battles played. And he thinks, he is the mastermind who has it all figured out. "What, someone else is not moving fullspeed like a window-licker? Ill better tell him what i think of him"...

Secondary french BBs got burried anyway

well you could get almost everything you want, except IFHE (unless you dont take AR). But IFHE doesnt make much sense except for T7-9 germans (except Gneisenau) imo. The 105mm german secondaries get 32mm pen with IFHE. US secondaries only get 26mm pen, which is almost useless for Massa, Georgia and Ohio (assuming you would want to play them secondary build). It makes a bit more sense for Massa, if you get T6 MM, because you get to pen T6-7 BBs and also T8-9 Cruiser plating. But i wouldnt take it on US BBs really.

The problem i see, if you would just make those skills cheaper, you could basicly get everything other BBs have aswell: - some 1pt skills - 2pt secondary range - 3pt Mansec - CE/FP/extra repair party/CQC (which ever 3 you prefer), since you dont camp you dont need Deadeye anyway (and since it probably gets removed/reworked..) Then you can still AR. What does a non-secondary BB get instead? Well he can take turret traverse OR PT instead of sec.range and then BoS instead of Mansec. BoS is not necessary anyway and i think turret traverse and PT are mostly QoL skills, which you can also do without (unless you cant play without PT, then you are fugged or you take IFA) Meta just wont allow for proper secondary builds (in randoms). WG could buff them so much, and people would still camp. Then you rush in with your secondary monster, and you still die before you get into range

Minimap 3:30 into the game. He basicly annoyed us both the entire game. Luckily i had Smoke (plymouth) so i could still do something. But at times he also just torped my smoke lol... instead of doing something useful. Basicly it was 5+CV vs 4 of us (our CV ofc didnt help us ) I dont recall when Hindi died, but he somehow managed to do that. As i said somewhere else about this very same game, its a loss-loss situation: CV is wasting his own time, cant even get damage in, and we dont get to have fun. Such awesome concept

Havent played that many games yet (4 Georgia, 6 Pommern) but i got use out of the secondaries in 8 out of 10... kinda (depends what one thinks about the 10k on the DD, because i didnt do anything that battle anyway, except hunt a DD with my BB lol). 2 Games could have been better, but my team decided "nope, you are not gonna kill the enemies with your secondaries"

He had 2 more with him