DFens_666

Depends on the ship u are shooting probably and the angle how its looking at u. A BB nose on u dont have that many option to deal damage to him: Nose if u can overmatch it. If not u gotta hit the Superstructure. To hit the Superstructure the shell must travel above his main turrets. And with Dispersion its never guaranteed to hit what u want, so u might hit the turret/barbette. Other ships, like yamato, are plastered with AA/Secondary at the superstructure, so basicly u are farming them at the same time which might result in 0 damage pens. Believe me, u are not alone, i get tons of 0 damage pens aswell...

With the smoke changes this became pretty much obsolete. Using Radar against BB is highly situational, yes i probably done it a couple of times, either to help my teammate or to detect that BB in smoke, if he is not shooting, or detect a BB early in a Cyclone. But im hesitant to use it since i rather target DDs or RN CLs, if they are still around. For all other usage: BBs get spotted earlier, since their detection is worse, so it would need rather insane range against big targets, like 15km or so. And then again, why u would want to desperately attack a target that far away? Would make sense, but a useful implementation is not given imo.

Well, what did u do with that arguement that MM should consider Radarships? U twisted that around to "Radar needs to be removed". Talking about who is twisting arguements here... It doesnt matter if the subject is different. But the effect is similiar. U feel that ppl are in general bothered by Radar ships. Im not bothered by Radar (even tho i do get radared when playing Neptune f.e.), yet its frustrating when one team has all radar and the other has none. The same feeling when my team has 2 RU DDs and the others get IJN/US + another as a bonus. I dont really care if u see it as equal or not - we are talking about Radar distribution, an arguement YOU PULLED OUT OF CONTEXT!, and i added DD distribution to underline the importance of MM checking for Radars/DDs. I cant even follow the logic that the game is getting worse with Radar. In your world without Radar, DDs are rushing towards caps, every other ship behind them (btw why would they?), supporting each other everyone gets action game done in 5 mins or what? I think something like this is more likely: Either DD goes to cap, or DD flanks around because he wont fear ANY retalitation from the enemy, since noone is able to spot him. Two options for both scenarios: DDs in cap battle each other - usually one gets killed. The surviving DD is now free to farm all ships which might be in reasonable distance. Any ships supporting the losing DDs side are now forced to flee. DD goes to cap and wont get disturbed by an enemy DD. After capping he is free to roam as he see fits, as long as he got a general clue about where the enemy DDs might be. The less DDs and the more caps there are, the more freedom he gets. RPF becomes even more valuable at that point for DDs. Ok the other option when the DD plays selfishly from the start: He spots another DD doing the same stuff (maybe not too likely), world of DDs minigame starts, surviving DD has the ability to roam free. If he is able to flank around, he can roam free without retaliation. Only the DDs own stupidity will ever make him a target basicly ever again. Conclusion for other ships: Camp even further back, run run run and hide all the time, since spotting DDs is totaly impossible now. Once a team has less or no DDs, its almost a done deal. Hum learn englush? Obviously im writing chinese

Yes, u are always right, thats what we are getting here! Im making stuff up XD wow u are aweseome. I literally quoted u where u said what i explained how it is in my OPPINION! Cant make stuff up when it feels to me that way - u know, u cant really influence that. Ok so everyone else is saying bullcrap, and once again u are totaly right. I clap my hands in disbelieve... I gave u an equal arguement about MM not being able to distribute by DD roles - yet its like im talking about bananas and u are talking about apples. U used an arguement that MM should consider Radar ships to distribute it evenly among teams, pulled it out of context to use it for your own agenda as: Radar needs to be removed. So by using someone elses arguement, i might aswell bring in the DD distribution - why does it suddenly matter if u think its right or wrong. U didnt even use the uneven Radar distribution as an arguement by yourself! Im dont talking to u. If u have nothing better to say than "bullcrap" then its useless anyway.

Nope, its exactly what i meant. U are saying u dont have a problem with Radar yourself, yet the way u are argueing makes much more sense when u actually do have a problem with it. I dont see ppl complaining about Radar at the end of the match. I rarely see them at the start either. Only then when lately are like 10+ radar ships in the game, thx to WG pushing Missouri "sales". But ive said all the time: Those Missouris are not worth the Radar they are carrying. Ppl complaining about uneven DD distritubtion does however happen aswell. Usually its less frequent because RU DDs arent played as much as other DDs. Still the question is: When noone is opening his mouth, is it ok? Its not my fault when ppl see a DD, they think they are all equally good for capping. Thats the whole point im making: Only because u are argueing heavily against Radar, but not against DD distribution doesnt mean that one is wrong and the other is right. If u cant undestand the difference between IJN DDs or RU DDs, then the whole point of argueing is futile. MM needs to consider Radar ships, to which u respond: If Radar is that effective that MM needs to consider it, it must be removed. MM needs to consider DD roles aswell, so i can equally argue that DDs need to be removed then. MM DOES consider CVs because they are always matched, and when CVs werent matched before the other option would have been to remove them. So where is the problem in all those cases? MM needs to make better matches - problem solved. That CVs need a rework is not tied to MM. Still its better to give both teams a CV than a matchup with 1vs0 CVs.

Finaly u admit it atleast: Ppl have problems with CVs - no arguement there. I think they need a rework, but removing them is not possible anymore. Heavy uneven distribution of Radar ships is a problem for MANY ppl - needs changing. Uneven distribution of DDs (Torpboat/Gunboat) is also a problem for some/many ppl (usually the same ones who are argueing the same way about Radar) - needs changing So here is your point: Obviously YOU have a problem with Radar, but u wont admit that, still u want it removed. U have no problem with the DD distribution so its fine. Even tho, they can be equally game deciding as the uneven distribution of Radar ships. One of them fits your Agends - the other doesnt. Still u are totaly ignoring that from a view of balanced starting positions both are on the same level.

Oh forgot to quote that earlier: U know its perfectly possible with 50mm plating? Thats why f.e. German Cruisers have an advantage over shooting Khaba, since their HE penetration rule is 1/4 not 1/6. So every HE shell will penetrate it, as 203mm guns from other nations wont.

No, u didnt get the point. Since u were saying its fine to a certain degree. 1 Radar more or less wont be that game chaging, but it happened often enough that one team has 3 or even more radar ships when the others got none. Thats why i brought in the CV example. But there are others aswell. 3 DDs f.e. US/IJN/IJN vs 2 DDs both RU. This is not fine and needs chaging aswell. Or are u saying that DDs need to be removed aswell because MM cant handle it properly?

Yes i understand its frustrating, its so for me aswell. And i dont think its right that u "damage" something which belongs to the ship, but has his own healthpool (Guns/AA/Secondaries) yet the ship doesnt lose any health. A hit to the turret not incpacitating it should just deal normal penetration damage. Often enough i get 3 penetration ribbons on bow on BBs, disabling a turret but in the end i get 1 penetration worth of damage...

U hit f.e. a main turret or the barbette. If the damage caused is not enough, u will get a penetration ribbon but no damage. If u incapacitate the turret, u will get a symbol for that (but still dealing 0 damage). If u hit the barbette im not sure if u can incapacitate the turret, but u will certainly deal 0 damage. Other modules can be hit aswell like AA/secondaries which deal 0 damage. So it doesnt matter if the ship has 100% health left or only 10%. Bouncing shells: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration#Armor-Piercing If Armor * 14,3 < caliber then it will get overmatched beyond autobounce. F.e. Hipper (27mm bow armor) can tank a Bismarck (381mm caliber) bow on without getting damage to the hull. But he cant tank a Nagato (410mm) f.e. as 27x386,1 is less than 410mm, so it will get overmatched thus dealing penetration damage, or even continueing to hit the citadel.

Hah should have seen my Coop game when i played 1v4 Bots and they gangbanged me like 4 super unicums 2 of those just casually killed 2 of my teammates basicly driving by, and my other 5 teammates got wiped by the other bots... Okhotnik passes by infront of me, lays a smoke screen. Gnevny follows him, goes into his smoke, all the time me getting HE spammed by both. Since the Okhotnik continued towards our Cleveland (which i thought, well he might handle him, but cleveland went coward behind island and got killed by torps ) I tried to Hydro rush the Gnevny, he is all the time kiting away from me, not staying in the smoke constantly pounding me. Suddenly Furutaka and Nürnberg pop out behind islands 4km away from, i manage to dodge first torp volleys. They turn around Nürnberg throws torps, i dodge, Furutaka is like, "[edited]u eat my volley" -> Dead me. Never seen anything like that. Did i mention they angled perfectly to not get citadelled to death?

Ye... not worse than teammates. Today on Shatter, i was flanking with my Neptune from A towards B, where an enemy Edinburgh was retreating from B back to his spawn. Got some Citadels when he passed some islands, he had like 12k HP left at that moment, when he got undetected in his smoke. I was constantly going same speed same heading, when a Chung Mu sailing 2 km next to me decided, hey im gonna torp that almost dead Edinburgh, [edited]that neptune between me and him... Couldnt evade those torps, weird thing i didnt die

Met @jamesscott1969 in Coop. Thx for the headsup Yesterday met @Exocet6951 also in Coop^^ Both times i was only doing the campaign missions - first kill a BB, and today kill a Cruiser. Was so frustrating when all the Cruisers are running away from me

Usually there are less DDs than BBs in a match. So the DDs that are there, must to their Job, more so the less DDs are in one match. One DD out of 5 not doing his job wouldnt be that bad, 3 DDs out of 3 doing nothing is not manageable for the team. Borderhugging BBs usually exist in both teams, so it doesnt matter that much. And its easier to manage than your DDs playing like selfish bastards. Its not about if they want to cap or not - they deliberately sail around the map, avoiding all caps, yoloing into several BBs/CAs including Radar ships, accomplishing nothing and dieing like a total moron. So they are perfectly fine attacking radar ships, but not capping because of Radar? Doesnt make sense now does it. Well, there arent enough CVs. A discrepency of 1 Radarship can usually be worked against, one team having 3+ more radars than the other is not fine anymore. How about one team gets a CV while the other has none (with current setup, not some old BS "but there were times when it existed!!!11). Would that be fair? Playing 3vs0 Radar feels the same way , when they know what they are doing. Ontop of that u might get 1 less DD (which might not even be a true DD) and the game gets totaly down the drain. As a DD player u should understand that...

Good players can deal more damage because the rest of his team isnt dealing that damage. When suddenly everyone has high avg damage in one match, noone can remain that high standard, atleast technically, since the maximum health floating around has a hardcap. Sure, some ppl will have a high damage in each match, but overall it would drop down. Look at changes made within the last year and u realize that WG is moving away even further from teamplay... I dont know why, but obviously they think everyone should be able to play by himself

I agree that the influence on a match is CV > DD > CA/BB as a general rule of thumb. There are differences ofc, a Missouri has much more potential influence than an Iowa. Still i think BBs should use HE to fight of DDs, because HE is designed for lightly armored targets. But i think those 0 damage pens damaging modules must be gone also. Had an incident of Missouri vs Tashkent, when i had loaded HE for another reason but was forced to shoot the Tashkent at 4km, and did 6 HE Pens for 3,6k damage, which means 2 HE shells did damage (4 at most when saturation is somewhat in place), thus leaving me with much less damage than 6 Overpens would have given me, since overpens will ALWAYS deal damage no matter how much its saturated. Btw it is ofc not a given that when a DD has more influence on a battle, that its true always. Your team needs to harvest the influence u give them id say. And then Cruisers can shine too, or BBs. If your CAs/BBs are good, its enough when u spot as a DD. This effect is more prevelant the less HP the target has. It doesnt matter when u do Pen+overpen damage to a BB when he has 80k HP. 5k seems bad in general. Same thing if u deal massive damage f.e. 2 Citadels + Pens+ Overpens, u cant even calculate that fast how much damage u should have done, so u wont realize it. But hitting a DD with 1-2 Shells dealing huge amounts of damage is something u will realize. I think weird damage numbers compared to ribbons happen to all ships equally for me. Best one so far was having 2 Overpens dealing 11k+ damage on a Hindenburg

Was an immense buff for DDs, but few ppl actually understand that. And i dont mean spotting a RN CL in his smoke... this is dumb and would be a nerf. This got worse with the PA-DD release and their ability to perma-smoke. Play a Radar ship and use the Radar for your team. Unless a specific person is in danger by that DD (RN Cruiser are different in that regard due to their squishyness, everyone likes to shoot them for free easy damage/kill), they are hesitant to shoot that DD. Been playing a lot Missouri or Missouri/Moskva division. And the moment u realize noone cares about Radaring a DD is pretty frustrating. If u are behind an island, u probably cant shoot him. So i like it as it promotes teamplay. If i should only use Radar when i can shoot myself, then its like smoke for DDs now: Why smoke up a random teammate who will get him spotted anyway? I understand that for some ships Radar is pretty strong (i.e. Belfast). But if u could spot EVERY Radar ship outside his radarrange (since it wouldnt work through islands) radar would be pretty much obsolete. Unnecessary risk and gain nothing. Pretty much like Missouri, but without the armor to withstand the heat (comparing Radar Cruiser here as if they would need to act like missouri). If they think its fine going as close as 7km in open water - eat my shells, u dont have to. U are just greedy and think u can torp me from minimal detection. Being perma spotted is usually a bad thing for any ship, thats how i would try to act as a DD vs Missouri. But when u see DDs going into a Cap and smoke up, then its a free *bing* for the Radar ship. u wont see him coming, and u told him exactly where u are, so he can position himself best to shoot u. Wouldnt help if he needs LoS in that regard since u dont know he is coming.

Probably u are ignoring those BB whine threads. Also they are nicely hidden nowadays... They like to pull the realism card for CVs/DDs/CAs but not for BBs, and then its not that obvious that its actually a BBaby whine thread. If sometimes ppl complain about DDs/CAs, they usually seem not to be lost (tell them what they do wrong and they seem to understand it more often) - while telling a BBaby to "git gud" (or even giving him constructive critisism!) results in more whining and flaming. Latest result of BBs are broken and WG not admitting that is imo the RN BBs. They start fires like no tomorrow, destroy modules/AA guns. So WG, instead of balancing the HE, reduced fire duration on DDs and CAs... This cant be a coincidence, since they even said RN BBs do most of their damage to BBs. Then why would they make the change some time after the release of RN BBs? HE was always around.

Sadly, dealing more damage is not the right indicator. Dealing it to the right target is, and noone can answer that besides u. Focus DDs. If u see a DD spotted within reasonable range, id advise to shoot it. Many ppl nowadays just seem to refuse to shoot em. So if u want to win more, its up to YOU to do it.

Yep, thats why i think they introduced Radar. Maybe their "Stats" showed, that Cruisers did too little damage towards DDs (aka farming BBs) so they thought, how to change that? Radar! Still i mean, there is a difference in Roles between CLs and CAs, and imo ships like Graf Spee/Scharnhorst/Gneisenau are even between CAs and BBs, known as Battlecruisers. And as i said: The more different lines they introduce, the harder it gets to make specific roles. Since suddenly when i have a specific role, and the class im supposed to counter isnt in the game, then what? Thats also a reason why Cruiser need both DefAA AND Hydro! I can choose to go AA but wont see a CV for several matches then what is it good for? All the time having to play without Hydro which could spot potential torps coming my way. Or even rush a DD down in his smoke. On the other hand i can division up with a CV, go full AA and farm planes / prevent the CV from going where i am, which is equally bad imo. Im not sure if Cruiser vs Cruiser action is hurting the game. Thats why i brought up CAs and CLs. As per definition, CAs are best and killing CLs. Yet how would u make the game that CLs arent punished by BBs as heavily or even more? Look at Neptune/Minotaur. A good BB salvo is all they need and they are finished. They might survive a little bit longer vs CAs, depending how they are playing themselves. If we would have 6-7 Cruisers per side/game, this game would become better instantly.

Yep this is very much true. This game is exhausting over time when u actually play for the win. And then u get assholes on your team who sail at the border of map saying " I want to relax"... Go play Coop ffs! If i would care for nothing, looking at the nice water and islands, shooting once every 2 mins MAYBE, then yep, probably one of the most relaxing games out there

Does charging in with a Hindenburg and Kill that BB count as being wrong? Technically we have to look at CLs and CAs differently. CLs are better at killing DDs, f.e. RN CLs. Yet those are heavily punished by CAs and even more so by BBs. When we say, CAs shouldnt engange BBs, then they should engange CLs. But with the game being as it is (like today 5 BBs + 4 DDs most of the time) what are they supposed to do? They have to engange BBs. A Hindenburg has no chance at hunting DDs, its slow and the HE is mediocre at best, also no Radar. AP is not good enough since DDs can bounce it, unlike BB AP. The more lines are introduced, the more they have to move away from that rock-paper-scissor stuff obviously... + all the gimmicks doesnt help.

Try to go for Flag Containers or if u feel lucky then TYL Containers. 1. might give u XP-Flags or PapaPapa for extra FreeXP. 2nd might get u a Supercontainer which can contain large amounts of FreeXP. And if it fails, sometimes u get 750 FreeXP of 4 flags which might also be PapaPapa. Other than that: Do as many Missions as possible which gets u flags/Camos. Sometimes using 100% XP-Camo is better than the Permanent Camo from Premium ships (dont know which Hood has?) Also advance in the Campaigns, Yamamoto gives u supercontainers f.e. Finished the NC-Collection today and got 2x10k FreeXP from the chrismat boxes u get for completing the collections. Other option is to play ranked, u get flags from there ( i think u get Papapapa aswell?)

C Cap seems better balanced now when spawning in the south. But A Cap is even more useless now, was the coward cap always IMO. I hate it when ppl go there and sit all game long doing nothing. I Rarely ever see anything coming good out of it when some go to A. Either they die or they are too slow to help at B. Even when spawning south its very easy to shoot into B.

I think the best option is to not play solo. Basicly what u said yourself. But currently i think its the missions what makes ppl play to the absolute worst. Since the 5th stage of NC-Campaign its been horrible. And i can understand when u play solo, your options are limited. I think if i would play solo, id try to hang on to a division, hoping they are somewhat decent, utilizing each other kinda. Best example today when we played Moskva/Hindenburg division. ANd we got OMNI ElegantDeDk (however he continues, cant remember^^) and Ivath in enemy team - and our team went instantly "Ok its lost". We told them, its certainly not and better change your attitude. Yep we won, coz our team worked well together. Not too many ppl made stupid moves. Had to check afterwards if they were streaming and watched the Video - they were making fun of our lemmingtrain on Loop to A and how they would farm us soon... well, we farmed them.