DFens_666

Well, the problem, as mentioned many times before, is that WR is not the right indicator. If only ppl with >52% WR play amongst each other, what will inevitably happen? some Ppl will drop below that value. At the same time, if players with <52% play amongst each other means, that some of them will go above that value. In the end it would be questionable how it would turn out, probably depending which side is more active (Since there are more <52% WR player around, the lower side will be more active usually). But definetely means that more ppl will go towards that value, going up and down all the time. So basicly it wouldnt change anything in the long run. The question would rather be, should ppl be locked into a "better" group once they manage to reach a certain goal? What goal is it? Something 40% WR guys can never achieve but f.e. 55% WR players can? Pretty hard if u ask me... The better option is let players make their own games, with the possibility to choose settings (maps, tier, number of players) WITH rewards. Playing trainingroom wont get u anywhere, so u would still need to play randoms...

The problem is, when u use Hydro to detect someone with a mechanic like that means, that every other ship has Hydro aswell, even when he is not actually having it. Thats why basicly for Radar it doesnt change really much, but for hydro it most likely would. F.e. i had a game in Hindenburg some time ago on Shatter, a Shimakaze was tryting to run away from me (i was close to B, he was going to C) and i was spotting him as long as he wasnt behind islands. So i popped Hydro to see where he is going, he just kept running away but hugged the islands. He went trhough the gap, i didnt. Obviously he thought i followed him, since i surpised him popping up in from of him a bit later. With him seeing me all the time, Hydro would have been totaly useless in that case. @ForlornSailor already pointed it out for Radar. - Missouri if i can Radar a DD without being detected, i will be detected once i shoot him because smoke spotting mechanic. If i sit behind an island, idc if i get spotted. Basicly its same for every other Radar Cruiser aswell, with maybe the one exception of radaring a smoked up DD OUTSIDE of the smoke spotting range (probably might work for all except moskva). In the end, will the DD profit from that? No. However who can mostly punish the Radar Cruiser? A BB... This would make Radar Cruisers actually MORE passive (as Anotherduck is always saying) since u would want to remove the chance of getting blapped by sitting in or near cover.

That reminds me of one game not too long ago on Haven. Enemies started north and pushed through C towards D in our spawn. Our flank was at B, and both flanks won their respective battles, so it was pretty even on ships at that point, alltho my team had the higher tier ships left. So the enemies were capping D (a DD) and an Atlanta behind the islands there + 2 DOYs and another Cruiser. I was at front going towards D from below B, told my teammates, we can make the stand now (i was Missouri already half dead, behind me Almost full Missouri, Full Hipper, Full Algerie; them being full HP should have told me something...). So i was pushing, but had to abort and get almost spammed to death by the Atlanta, WHO LEFT THE ISLANDS! and was inside D now, but what did my team do? Go coward at B behind Islands... Did i mention the Atlanta had <10k health, but 2 salvos on him i got only overpens... would have been easy snack for Hipper or Algerie but nooooo. DoYs turned away back C also, so they werent in danger AT ALL... Luckily we manged to win in the end, but barely. It would have been far easier to push D.

I think the whole smoke mechanic is not good right now. Imo the biggest problem is, that u can spot while u sit in your smoke. That was a way for selfish DDs (hey i can sit in smoke dakka-dakka now AND spot the enemies, as long as they see my team aka shoot them), Buff for BBs (since they profit the most when a target gets spotted in smoke, and a Nerf to Cruisers. Look at how it was before smokechange: U played a Cruiser with Hydro, a DD was shooting/sitting in his smoke and u could rush him down. Depending on enemy ships, u could have stayed undetected. Now its impossible to stay undetected since the DD will spot u once u shoot at him. Who is most likely to benefit from that? A BB. The DD MIGHT Torp u, but since u are running hydro anyway, they are spotted instantly. Before the change u could even use the smoke to get undetected. Now, depending on where the enemies are, u cant (atleast not in the second u enter the smoke) PA-DDs enhanced that problem because of DWTs, Insane speed, Perma smoke capability. Its the same when a DD spots a RN CL in his smoke. The Cruiser knows u are there, and u dont wanna get cozy with a RN CL as a DD. So u get punished by him. Who punishes the Cruiser? Most likely a BB. Torping the Cruiser was always risk-free and u could earn the reward yourself, or atleat push the Cruiser out of his smoke, so that your team can deal with him WITHOUT the risk of dieing yourself. Back to the Hydro/DD thing: Imo Hydro/Radar on DDs is as wrong as Radar on Missouri. Maybe even more because Hydro lasts so much longer. I think the problem with getting spotted yourself while using Hydro in smoke is, that it will always benefit BBs the most. A mechanic like that would make Hydro on DDs instantly obsolete. Even tho i said i dont like it, making it work like this would be worse than just removing it. The other thing it would do, it would make Hydro on other ships solely a tool against Torps, since i would get detected even when im NOT shooting at the target. Currently u have atleast the choice: Hydro a Ship in smoke -> Shoot = Get detected / Dont shoot = Stay undected and atleast try to torp him if possible.

ACtually DDs with Hydro/Smoke are much more I-win than a Radar Cruiser. Look at good German DD players, they basicly can kill other DDs at will. Cruisers rushing a Smoke with Hydro got severely punished by that smoke change, since when u open fire, u will be detected now. DDs dont have that problem because of the lower Smoke detection range.

In the beginning when they were introduced i didnt like it either. But they reward skill and good play, so i think its overall good. And they are high risk high reward ships, tho some ppl make it out as no risk sitting in smoke going dakka dakka. Smoke doesnt make u invulnerable. And Neptune i consider over-nerfed by the 6,4km detection. The problem with improving the heal is, when u get blapped from full health it wouldnt help if u could heal 100%. RN CLs get blapped all the time, so its not even a rare occurance. Removing the Citadel from Cruisers (as i said in another thread recently) would most likely punish Cruiser vs Cruiser and Cruiser vs DD interaction. Cruiser vs Cruiser engagement without Citadels would most likely only result in HE spamming, even when the target shows broadside. If u only remove the Citadel from RN CLs, then they would probably be massively OP against other Cruisers, some more, some less (German CA/Moskva AP still ok, while IJN/RU AP worthless, US/French somewhere in between i guess) Dispersion buff sounds good at first, but overall i hate RNG dependant mechnics. I think this game has become too much RNG dependant anyway, since skill is rewarded less and less. It wouldnt make u invulnerable to being blapped, when RNG says yes, even when it would occur less often.

So by making smoke useless for RN CLs, make the most easy to kill Cruiser line even EASIER to kill for BBs.

Replay bug Earlier the camo wouldnt show at all, but at some point they fixed that but kept the Atago name... I dont see it really as that clear. Just recently i beached because i oversteered a bit and got stuck, but managed to avoid torpedoes because of that. Sometimes a bit noobyness saves the day Well technically i knew where the DD was, i did try to make the turn a bit later tho, but didnt work the way i wanted, but still... But in general its really hard to say if u should turn now or turn a bit later. Sometimes u have to take the risk of turning despite eating damage. Because making that turn later will only make it worse.

Still remains the question: If u lose because of that play, is it still more rewarding than playing for the objective first and then dealing damage and getting a win? Since wins get more XP/Credits than losses. Getting a DD kill with torps would be far better and more rewarding than dealing some damage to a BB and being overall useless with tiny guns. It always depends on what he is saying f.e. " U shouldnt turn now because u are detected" That is actually very valuable and true regardless. But on certain other decisions u cant just think afterwards too much "what would have happened if...."

Thats totaly different since they have no other option. The problem is WG not making tutorials that something like this exists. But its not rewarding bad play in that sense. If i sit in a DD in my smoke all day, not capping and spotting, THATS bad play, or if i sit behind an Island looking at Trees is also Bad play. Also u have to differ between getting rewarded and getting MORE rewarded for bad play. BB HE might be the case for that one. If i have a CV in the game, it might be helpful in the longrun if i strip that Montana off his AA so that he cant shoot down my CVs planes. So even tho it might be not optimal right now, but it might be good in the long run thus rewarding your team with a win, coz CV can do more.

Pretty much how i feel. Its stress when u have to go to insane lengths to get the win and its frustrating at the same time when u see total idiots who should play Coop because it simply DOESNT MATTER for them if they play against humans or Bots or better: should play Cruiseship Simulator...

So it is also about being Famous Thats what i said^^ Last match i just played i tried to be as helpful as possible: Rushed towards cap on Two Brothers to support our Harekaze. He was a noob ofc, dieing instantly to Radar. So i had to sit there a bit since Chapa and NO pulled their radar consecutively, Hindenburg tried to rush me, luckily i got some support, and got away barely (15 HP and got hit by Chapa, i popped heal in the same moment luckily^^). After kiting away, the enemies just stopped in A, so i could go Dakka-Dakka again. Meanwhile Z52 sits next to me in MY smoke and goes dakka-dakka and refuses to spot after they disappear... What did i get for telling the Z52 to spot? reported Did u think he would have used his smoke for me then? ofc not. Moved away from me and smoked up again...

Well, when u actually see proper BBs angling/tanking and supporting a cap, and then get completely bend over and fucked in the [edited]by your own DDs, then u dont have to wonder about it. And ofc u cant change your playstyle because sometimes it happens, thus becoming a potato. But its not always that easy...

Ive been thinking that reports from the enemy team should be awarded as Compliments, since it means u did something right WG should do that secretly and not tell anyone tho Also making it reward only 1 compliment/person (even when they "report" u 7 times) so it would be less obvious. Im raging at ppl who play like BS also, yet do i get complimented? No^^ Usually i try to be helpful at first, saying sometimes SEVERAL times what they should do. But at some point ill just go nuts on them since they are potatoes anyway. Lately ive watched his stream and many times i see him report ppl^^ Rarely he compliments someone, alltho it does happen yes.

Actually i like showing broadside in a BB at long ranges. U can [edited]with their minds when u slow down or speed up again, and u got also enough time to turn in. I always think its a nice way to get pressure of my Cruisers early on, so they rather shoot me and probably miss (and even if, i can take the couple of k damage, only gets my AR going ). Depends what u play i guess? F.e. thats how i react as a BB: - DD is at a place when i will most likely hit him, or in a position where i have to shoot him, ill shoot him First - Cruiser showing Broadside usually 2nd target in my row - BB showing Broadside If there is no immediate threat otherwise. Me Cruiser: - Always DD first Then it depends: Can i hit a Cruiser reliably? take him, if not, take a BB. Any target showing too much broadside will ofc attract more attention overall. Also some/many ppl are so focused in their binocular view that they might keep shooting the first target they spot all the time unless it gets undetected.

Out of curiosity: Why/how would u want to improve the potential damage? I mean, it would need the enemy team to shoot at u, and what are the best ways to do that? Showing broadside = bad. Getting closer which always leaves the possibility of overextending, which might get u killed faster, so u get less potential damage. Also i rather kill the target which is shooting me rather than tanking it for too long. Improve Damage dealt (especially against high value targets = DDs f.e.), try to use Radar more often, thus improving your WR. Imo those stats matter more.

Yes, i just wanted to point out, that ppl get reported and not chat banned when they have a good game (I didnt want to write it twice, thats why i out both of u in). Which might indicate they are more often unfriendly otherwise imo. Or they are playing the "wrong" ships too often Did u read the rest of my post about the abusing stuff? The way Flamu is acting in chat/stream he doesnt deserve to have any Karma imo. Yet he has like i dunno how much exactly 700 or so. Also i dont get reported as often for raging in chat (which i would expect then), as when i actually say nothing and still getting reported because i had a good game. Having a good Game in certain ships (CVs, RN CLs, maybe others?) will trigger the enemy so hard that u can taste the salt at your own end... Spamming from smoke is triggering most ppl so hard that u get reported - having a good game amplifies that, meaning u get more reports because u pissed off more ppl.

I think what Anotherduck meant was, DDs cant contest caps, which makes them play opposed to their role (avoiding caps, flanking the enemy for torps) thus getting "rewarded" because he can farm damage instead of dieing in the cap... Weird logic, but atleast thats how i understood him. Thats exactly the problem with the logic. Good player will still do the right thing instead of doing the stupid thing for their own sake. Bad players will do stupid things no matter what they are up against (thus the Video i uploaded on previous page). A Good DD player can try to permaspot a Missouri, and at some point u just HAVE to take the chance of radaring him - or not. Which means a good player wont get radared, but most likely will trigger his Radar (even when he doesnt know it) but that doesnt need to be. Being permaspotted is always bad. Bad player however will try to get as close as possible because they think they have the right to torp ANY ship from 6 km range, to make the torps hit, because they suck at torping. Know a familiar logic behind this? BBs whining that they get stealth torped, ISland HE spammed, rushed by a tanky Cruiser and getting killed, Planes... Because they drive mighty stronk BB, they think they can farm any enemy ship, espcially Cruisers, at their own will without retaliation...

Im answering to both of u, since it kinda fits: I have been reported for playing well, but no, ive never been chat-banned. Obviously salty enemies report u when u kick their buts. Likewise carrying the team to Victory RARELY ends in getting complimented. (I get more compliments for playing Operations, because they are easy peasy...) So with the current system there is just no way to "reward" or "punish'" someone for getting compliments/reports. Look at Flamu, he has like hundreds of Karma because he is "famous". Yet, he is an [edited]in game lately (look his stream, basicly in every match he is insulting someone in chat), he is insulting in his Stream... Ppl only compliment him because they know him and wanna kiss his behind...

Im agreeing with @ghostbuster_ on this one: If Radar makes DD players better, its good. All in all it teaches u Map awareness (something very crucial for any ship), and what to do/not do at certain times. The problem is, everyone is rather whining or blaming others for own shortcommings.

Eh, yes there is. Having 3 Donskois is not better than having 2 Donskois + Neptune. If i could choose, id always choose the 2nd. But i get u just want to press your own biased oppinion over me, because otherwise it wouldnt fit your agenda anymore. Just a recent ranked game as an example. DD misplays, gets out of cover unprotected. After that even smoke himself up, so he wont know that im coming. I dont even need Radar to punish him. So i guess remove Hydro + Torps on all Cruisers because imbalanced! Oh and Remove guns too, they hurt as bad as torps Im not afarid of DDs. Im pissed about stupid DDs who inevidably end up on my team aswell, screwing the whole team over because they are too dumb for everything. This includes playing Gunboat Shima against Several BBs, Rushing a BB shooting him despite having already won and losing... list goes on. everyone is crying about Potato BBs, yet if u dont have 5 of them, its somehow managable. Having potato DDs will lose u the game more often. Just yesterday had a match where 3 enemy DDs got all the kills (i think all caps at some point) while our morons did play cruiseshipsimulator close to back camping BBs. And no, the enemies didnt have radar ships! I was a MIssouri, but i couldnt get into Radar range because the DD was already fleeing. But our Shima was a coward after we got the enemy shima half dead, and he still managed 2 or even 3 kills in the end (not sure exactly, enemy DDs had total of 8 kills, rest of us were alive), because our shima decided NOT to help us... If Radar is a Git Gud mechanism, i think its awesome. CVs need the same stuff apparently -.-...

Are u talking about Chapa or Belfast now?... Ofc its a Gimmick for Belfast, since no other T7 ship can slot the Concealment Module! They cant really justify nerfing that concealment, because its more or less in line with Fiji and Edinburgh. Was just a general conclusion because u said which kinda implies it might still be OP even when u take one out. To a certain degree. Its hard to say if more accurate BBs would punish DDs more or less. I rather think it might be the second. Usually the amount of shells + dispersion is what makes BBs hit the DD almost guaranteed at close-midranges. If the DD turns in the wrong moment, he will get hit + getting most likely penetrations because overmatch. That does happen even when not aimed correctly. Aiming correctly might punish them more, but at the same time, might punish them less also when not aimed properly. And with the (hopefully) changes to BB AP, this might be irrelevant either. Im waiting about the "BB HE IS OP" threads from DDs afterwards tho... An example from today: i was playing Missouri, a Shima was ~10km away. I shot at him, he made a ~90 degree turn in that moment. I still hit and dealt 8,5k damage because 2 shells overmatched his bow. Without him turning he might have received something like 2 Overpens worth of damage. Hell even 4 overpens would have caused less damage.

To 1. Ye been mentioned by us/in other threads several times. But then u get ppl like Anotherduckling implying that it means Radar is broken because it needs to be balanced between Teams To 2. Not necessarily true. Depends a bit on the ship, but once u have a DD vs your Missouri keeping u perma spotted OUTSIDE your Radar range, u know u have a good DD against u. Radar punishes unaware players id say. Good players know where radar ships will most likely go on which map, thus can play around it. To 4. Im not on the side, that DDs are actually punishing BBs that much. I dislike matches with 5 DDs when i play hightier Cruiser. In general 5 BBs, once spotted, cant relocate that fast, so u can have them on your "radar" more or less. With 5 DDs however its highly unlikely that they all get spotted, so u can never truely know where it is. If im spotted by something, then my team still wont know that somethig is actually nearby, unless i tell them, which i sometimes do. But then again, your team does rarely tell u that they are spotted, meaning u cant know for sure where the DD is. To 5. Id say lowtiers have more probs DD wise than hightiers...

This arguement works basicly against Everything? Saipan is more valuable than Ranger. In a Game with more Cruisers, Montana is more Valuable than Conqueror/GK In a game with CV, every Cruiser with DefAA is more valuable than one with Hydro. Hydro DDs are more valuable then the others. ... where does it end? If u could choose between having 1 Radar Cruiser or none, ofc 1 is better. The question is: when would other Cruisers be more valuable than more Radar ships? F.e. having a Neptune instead of another Donskoi? Or having a Musashi instead of another Missouri, especially when there are no Yamatos!

Yet Fiji is worse at fighting DDs off, because no Radar. Also less damage because no HE, which means angled DDs can even bounce it. Not to mention angled BBs/Cruiser where Belfast isnt losing out on damage because HE... And even tho (i think) it has floatier arcs, HE doesnt lose out on distance like AP does, so shooting targets at maxrange is also dealing more reliable damage. Combine those 2 and it makes more sense. BBs/Cruiser at higher tiers are more powerful, but mostly against each other. On lower tiers, BBs arent that strong against DDs. But DDs also got more like YOLO-Rush torps, so they are spotted easier. Also Maps are smaller, which means getting into a Cap from stealth is easier, u can surpsise a DD. Higher tiers its harder, and u can get punished more. As i said: It doesnt matter what the torp reload for a single strike is. If a Mutsuki throws 2x3 Torps at me rushing him, i have a better chance than Shima throwing 3x5 torps at me. So id say Radar is making up for: More torps (despite u saying they dont have more, which isnt my problem but u ignoring facts), Bigger maps with less cover in the caps, and arguably stealthier DDs. Not every low-midtier DD has CE on the cptn. Yet on highertiers basicly EVERYONE has it. Even when they COULD have it, doesnt mean that they necessarily have it all the time.