DFens_666

I dont think they will fix the X on the minimap, since they made a statement about unwanted "mods" after the X was introduced into the official modpack. And since official modpack is good and safe u to use, i dont see them removing it....

-> Good point, i wanted to mention that, but forgot it then. Also sitting behind an island is "skill"? Or lets force ppl to use the X on the minimap, which requires even less skill. I think it was good to punish Island campers...

I didnt interpret something into your words - i was just pointing out my vision of this, yet u turned it completely around Hmm i see, there is no difference if a DD sits in smoke being able to spot ships, or him not being in smoke, where he is detected much easier... as long as they have something to shoot at, u can spot them. If u cant understand how that can translate into different options while playing, then we dont have to discuss anything anymore. U have your point - i have mine. Lets be done with it then.

Probably the most crucial part of this is telling ppl to look at the time/points/caps in between. Somehow many ppl cant understand this. Ive had a ranked game this season, where a dead player yelled at us to CAP, even tho we held both caps... I told him that, and his answer was CAP again... Ofc this is a really unique example, but in general many ppl dont understand when u HAVE to do something, and when NOT to do something.

Why is it one of your priorities to interpret something into other ppls words? Its not about being spotted when u shoot in the smoke - im fine with that. But when u sit in smoke yourself, then i think u shouldnt be able to spot ANYTHING. Even a BB sitting in smoke can spot something outside the smoke when the other one is shooting. Thats why sitting behind an island IS different than sitting in smoke. And it a big difference in that regard.

Yes, but u made it sound like its not a big deal.

Sure they could to some degree. But i dont think WG wants to. Look how games used to be 10+ years ago. U just couldnt suck your way up, if u wanted to beat the game, u had to "git gud". Now especially in WoWs u dont have to really. Game tells u, u did good, so whats the point? There is always someone else to blame...

Or Smith. But on the other hand, with that low gunrange (what does tachibana actually have?) which isnt much more than concealment range, id let them get away with 8 sec gunbloom.

If i can sit in smoke with my neptune (or any other ship, DDs would be more suited) and spot a BB 12km away when he is shooting at my teammates, and he would otherwise be undetected because of my smoke, then it is most certainly different than sitting behind an island.

Pretty significant difference id call that.

No more BBs with Cruiser consumables, its bad enough already. I agree, that speedboost is pretty... uninspiring. But we dont need more BBs with Hydro, and i definetely dont think we need BBs with DefAA. Crazy AA BBs are bad enough already, but DefAA would put it over the top. BBs with good AA can be dropped by CV, but with DefAA panic mode they become pretty much immune to CVs then. Basicly we have cptn skills for that already. So not sure if that would be a desirable consumable, or balanced at all, when combined with the cptn skills. Well, looking at French Cruisers i think thats why? Same with the Aigle who will come soon, and gets a better speedboost with 45 kts topspeed then

U do remember that before smoke spotting change, noone was able to spot while sitting in smoke?

We could even argue if its working as intended. Detection range is tied to my gunrange when i fire. So i shoot 20km with Hindenburg with spotter plane. My shells are in the air, spotter plane lands, im still detected by 20km even when i cant shoot that far anymore. If anything, the gunbloom shouldnt stay for 20 secs in that case, dropping it immediately down to maxrange might be bad too. So i think 10 secs would be fine, thats close to most reload on cruisers and shell flight time isnt that much more either. Also that would be the way to fix that gunbloom thing in total -> If nothing spots me, gunbloom gets lowered immediately.

Imo the worst thing about the smoke spotting changes - u shouldnt be able to spot anything from your own smoke. I guess that was easier to implement however, so they did it that way. I see it causing trouble with Cyclone. Probably u gonna say that Cyclone + Radar is BS blabubb, doesnt matter, it works like that currently. Also i rather punish BBs with my Missouri in Cyclone, because radaring a DD would be easier when im spotted anyway. But lets say, it increases detectability individually for each ship, so i could spot BBs in cyclone much further than now, which would make it totaly OP then. Overall, if the enemy doesnt expect me when im pushing his broadside, does it really matter if i use Radar against him in Cyclone

The other way it sometimes work, when u are steaming from behind an island, and u shoot, u are not detected, but the gunbloom stays at maximum for couple of sec (which is more now than what it was some patches ago! after looking at some replays), it says detected after that but gunbloom still drops down to normal spotting range, getting u undetected. Has happened a couple of times for me. Its also nice when u use Spotter plane, and your detection stays like that for 20 secs even when u cant fire at that range anymore when the spotter plane gets destroyed or the action time is over. Which is wrong too imo. I think that whole detection range = shooting range has caused of lot of stupid things. In general yes, for smoke no. Maybe its logical from a mechanic pov, but still is pretty stupid. Gunbloom shouldnt stay at max range when noone is there to spot me - afterall it doesnt do it when nobody is spotting u when u hit the trigger.

Its not really about that. U cant carry every game - neither should u. 3 Ppl cant win every game - neither should they, and it would be totaly wrong also! I rather question the total inability to do anything right. They dont understand points, they dont understand time. They dont know when to push or when to play cautious. U tell them anything, they do the opposite, because reason? I dont get it. There are so many examples.... Those are simply things. I dont expect that everyone is able to win a 1v1 engagement, but i expect 6 ships of my team to push through a cap and kill that 1 ship rather then to let him have the cap and run away. Often enough when u have the majority of enemies on your flank, and u can hold them back for a while, meanwhile u check what the other side is doing... making little picnics at the islands probably There is a difference between doing basic stuff right, and being able to use game mechanics to your own advatange.

Haha, we did that just today in one of our matches. It was pretty tight, but we had Roma and Lion basicly avoiding conflict all game long. Ofc at some point, it did catch up to them. Even perfectly knowing that they are useless, and the reason we lost in the end, we still tried to give them helpful advice. We first told them, NOT to show broadside vs Amagi/Missouri/Roon. That didnt work too well ~~. We told them to stick together. What happens? Roma charges, Lion goes coward. Afterwards, we told the Roma why it was wrong, and his response was "i had 3 fire anyway and couldnt stop my ship" Totaly wrong! He had a choice, but he choose to do crap and not improve, after that he just responded with sarcasm that we are gods, not everyone can be as good blablabla... Lion never reacted to anything, i called him a pussy in the end, so what? I tried multiple times to help him - nothing. Try to help them - which only seem to work in 1% of the cases. Only WG can force teach all players, but they choose not to. So usually after helping comments fall to deaf ears, its no wonder why ppl are raging. And yes, quitting the game is a good option when it gets unbearable. Why should i have to play with players who are actively avoiding the game? They arent playing ffs, they could be placed on Ocean (maybe 4 times as big), with constant spotting of all ships and they would probably never do anything. I dont know what their goal is? Not play the game? There is a reason to play this game - shoot enemies. The problem is, that those players arent punished at all in this game, they even can survive till the end. Playing a FPS in a fast, closed environment will get u killed no matter what. But in WoWs? U can sit all day in the corner without ever doing anything....

I think the question is rather simple: should a ship, which couldnt see u shooting, detect u after he enters your detection range even when the ship which caused the gunbloom is either dead or left your detection range? And then it doesnt really matter if u have smoke or not, but when u pop smoke as a defense action, then it gets kinda useless. Your gunbloom doesnt stay when nobody spots u shooting, why should it stay when nobody is there to spot u afterwards? So once detection switches to undetected, gunbloom should be erased and normal spotting / proxy spotting for smoke should kick in.

Why accept that the majority of this game is played by really bad players who dont understand anything? WG could force teach them atleast a little bit. Why are some ppl playing PvP when they seem to have no intention to fight? Why do ppl play like they have lost from the start? Just an example from this yesterday on shatter. We spawned in the north at C. Enemy DD tried to flank, but our khaba was doing the same, so khaba wins. Meanwhile we get C and fight of an enemy Saint-Louis. Where are the BBs u ask? somewhere 18km BEHIND C! Yamato was playing stationary fort in his spawn, shooting probably from 26km + maybe spotter plane . At some point the Saint-Louis reached the map border in the south, accompanied by his 3 BBs... Needlessly to say, they all died doing pretty much nothing.... So yes, not everyone is supposed to be Unicum, but atleast play the game FFS.

Yes, has been for some time now id say. Weekend teams dont exist anymore, its equally bad on all other days aswell. Who wonders when WG is constantly lowering the bar and making everyone as bad as possible?

Technically it did change, because before the change the proximity spotting was 2 (3) km, so u would have been undetected before, even if your gunbloom was full before entering the smoke. I think the spotting mechanic should change, when u kill the sole target spotting u, then the gunbloom should be immediately changed to proximity spotting, because thats the way it works when u are not detected. Smoke or no smoke.

Its not about the change in general, there are just some aspects of it which, in my mind, are pretty stupid and should be questioned as to why it is the way it is. Neptune as a specific ship f.e. Nothing wrong with getting spotted when u keep shooting from your smoke when an enemy gets too close, thats somehthing u can easily work around.

Literally on this page someone said, good DDs would do that. And ive seen ppl do that. Doesnt matter if intentional or accidental - the most profiting class is still BBs. Since there are usually 5 of them, its a high chance someone can shoot the cruiser in the broadside. But also BBs rushing a smoke are far harder to counter than a Cruiser rushing your smoke. U can take a Cruiser 1v1, get closer to achieve a guaranteed torpedo hit. With a BB u need several torp hits - sometimes more than RN CLs actually have (looking at Fiji, but especially Edinburgh) So they cant deal any damage with guns anymore, because everyone gets to have Auto-Hydro against u. Still, i personaly never seen this as a problem. And most likely a Division would be doing that stuff, so its safe to assume that they are good players anyway, which can deal with the changed situation now. I rather WG would work on a more teambased gamemode, and let Randoms be truely random, rather than force balancing everything which does hurt teamplay.

Not my fault when u cant grasp the effect it had DerpyDerp DD think its smart to spot a RN CL in his smoke by going close. Random BB 15km away sees a more or less stationary RN CL usually broadside. So clearly the one profiting from it is the BB, not the DD. Before the change torping the smoke was fine, but the CL was also undetected. So the BB couldnt shoot them as effectively, many ppl wouldnt even try anyway... As i said, BB sitting in smoke is pretty dumb. Ofc its debatable - but i dont think BBs should be played like that. So they got "nerfed" when they were trying to hide in smoke - which still works, but they cant deal damage then. Angled BB is able to eat substential amounts of incoming fire, so a good player will try to draw fire on his BB, if the BB is in smoke, he cant do it. Also Torps? BBs sitting/hiding in smoke were target number 1 for torps..

They cant get nerfed because they never had smoke to begin with. If anything, teamwork got nerfed, which means a DD wont blast his smoke for a BB anymore. Divisions however will STILL smoke that BB in order to safe him. U just cant deal damage in that period. Why do ppl pull that arguement anyway? it was never a problem for me, and ive seen it rarely. Cruisers cuddling up in smoke happened far more often. So a class which doesnt have smoke, as in ever, gets "nerfed, but a class where one entire line (basicly) has to rely on smoke remained unaffected... Where is the logic in that? And as i said, try rushing a DD in smoke with hydro, u WILL get spotted today, while before u could have stayed undetected, or if not, used his smoke afterwards to get undetected. Now both is impossible. Only noob DDs want to get cute with a RN CL, let alone a Belfast... Before the change, u could get as close as Hydro range to throw your torps at them, now u have to stay x behind that, because u will spot him, and once he is spotted, he will come out. Doesnt matter if he dies, he will try to take him with u. So, u most likely wont get torp hits, and u take the risk of dieing. Before the change? Throw torps, maybe hit, maybe not, but make him leave his smoke usually. Then u can spot him, someone from your team kills him. Without any risk for u. So taking a risk to spot a RN CL in smoke is stupid at best, and suicidal at worst. The Buff for DDs was, that they can sit in smoke and spot the target. Some ppl tend to keep shooting inside the smoke, just to keep themselves spotted