DFens_666

They are still more usefull in a BB/Cruiser. They can deal more damage and tank more. A BB sitting in the harbour is better than a DD yoloing into the first wave. While both are pretty useless, the first one is atleast alive.

I agree, thats the way it should be. That being said, WG does only focus on damage sadly. So spotting is nice for winning games, but you dont get the rewards for that. Your teammates do for dealing damage.

SSE is for every Smokeship, which pretty much includes all the DDs. If you say yourself, whether its useful or not is up for debate, doesnt change the fact that DDs could use it aswell. Another example: Evasive Maneuver is a skill solely for CVs, doesnt mean its useful tho. (also IFHE is necessary for donskoi which has 180mm guns)

Most of the time DDs do however suck, because Bots like to evade torps and the DPM from the guns is too low compared to the others (and you cant tank). Doesnt mean you cant have a good game in a DD, but most of the time they drag the team down.

My initial statement is not less true even if you both you and the guy you replied to werent specifically talking about it. Probably even more so, since US CLs actually do have Radar/Hydro/DefAA + Heal on T9/10 so they get the most value out of SI. But since you were disagreeing with that, you then went ahead and did the same thing i supposedly did to you, and threw in Fiji/Leander - both ships i didnt mention US CLs pretty much profit from IFHE before they need SI - while RN CLs also profit from SI from T5 onwards. Doesnt change the fact that one skill buffs your offensive capabilites, while the other buffs survavibility. And then there is still the problem of using all heals in general, and even more so for getting the maximum value out of them - pretty much impossible for the superheal. One extra smoke is probably more valuable than that, unless you die too fast - which can easily happen when you are getting shot at in your smoke. Movement is easily traceable with fast firing Minotaur guns (again, i dont want to talk about Buffs to Fiji/Leander, thats ridiculous), and with BB dispersion they can still hit you even if they dont aim perfectly - something which im wondering anyway, as you get so often a Citadel by shooting into the smoke, while other shells land miles away from the target.

Stalingrad will be brought back in line once enough "average" players gets their hands on it, which might occur ~ after xmas depending on how much steel they can buy. Yep, 2nd in damage tanked. Since you are nailing someone for saying Leander is only first in one category - while its true its first in 2! categories, i suppose you are willingly admitting now to: blatantly lying

You cant dismiss stats because a line/ship is supposedly OP. It still exists. Even if it would be more balanced (looking at Worcester here) it would still be in that list. If it would be at the lower end, it would be UP maybe. Problem is, someone has to be at the bottom of the list. As for Stalingrad: After hearing/seeing GOOD! players in random with it - im not even sure if i want it myself. In the end, its probably good enough to bash noobs. Only reason is to get it for CBs...

Several problems with those stats: - Solo/Division are all mixed up. Some ships shine more in divisions. RN CLs especially do in division with CVs (Neptune/Mino because of insane AA) - Those stats are not recent. RN CLs were VERY strong upon release, because basicly noone knew how to handle them. They got nerfed after that simply be smoke firing debuff. And players learned how to smoke fire. Also you said, ship needs buffs when good players cant perform in them, yet you looked at server average, with the above mentioned problems. And not even all stats are displayed on wows.numbers, like survivability. Some examples if you look at top 10% of server players: - Mino lowest damage - WR is not that impressive seeing how it has much higher plane kills -> played with CV divisions most of the time. - avg kills are meaningless, because of high ROF and strong torps. -Neptune avg WR and again high plane kill average -> falsifies the data. - Avg damage is also average, but its again missing the recent one, could be because it was rather high earlier. - Leander is average overall (despite being still strong - Edinburgh is also somewhat average, most of the CAs are behind it, because CLs beat CAs... sad truth. And ofc ships like Hipper which was/is kinda bad, and Atago which is a premium. Edinburgh is still worst CL in the list. - Only Fiji is really above average, which makes sense since most ppl agree its probably the strongest silver Cruiser.

Still he has a point Also you could just say Leander/Fiji doesnt need buffs because... Neptune could need a buff because....

Yes, it worked also recently for us. Didnt see any announcement tho.

I feel its mostly due to players being total garbage rather than changes they made. Yes, Bots evade torps almost 100% of the time and it sucks balls. But they still eat citadels like candy if you get in the right position. Somehow i feel, that the 2nd wave is slower than before, and its harder to kill the 2 BBs in time to get your attention to the 3rd wave. That was the problem the first game i played this week. 3rd wave couldnt be stopped before they reached the harbour. Anyway, to me it feels like WG are really being [edited] about making OPs constantly less fun to play

Yes, he did say all. BUT, what YOU are constantly ignoring is, that he stated "especially hightiers" in the middle of his post. So you saying, Leander and Fiji are great ships doesnt disprove the fact, that RN CLs are fine down the line. It means, that 2 out of 10 ships are fine. By the same logic, since Yamato is a great ship even with his exposed Citadel, a buff to Izumo was not warrented - yet we know what happened and we know how everyone was saying how Crap Izumo was (same can be said about FDG) Game changes, and some ships which were questionable before might be plain bad at some point. Neptune f.e. You could have picked that one instead of Leander in your first post in this thread, yet you didnt. Or someone who is interested in a discussion would have showed BOTH / ALL RN CLs to show that some Ships might need a buff while others dont. I agree. I even wrote that in the thread where they asked for feedback. Maybe a dispersion penalty for smokescreen shooting would be great. But then again, you can lock a target, unlock real fast and shoot at the smokesceen, the auto-aim correction wont screw you but you have locked dispersion shells leaving your turrets... which is questionable af. Im clearly talking about Hightier RN CLs since my first post. You can leave your strawman Fiji Leander arguements somewhere else As i said, i dont see an advantage in smokes anymore on hightiers. Even if the skill gives you more value, the other Cruisers still have to pick, not only for the heal but they still get extra DefAA/Hydro/Radar aswell. IFHE is a total different kind of skill than SI. SI buffs your survavibility, which doesnt help you one bit if yout get blapped in one salvo - even receiving citadels (which normaly does happen - and it happens much easier when you are in your smoke btw Note: Easier does not mean more frequent!) can mean that the superheal + extra heals from SI cant be used since you simply die before you can use em. IFHE is a skill which boosts your offensive capability, and not by a little bit but by a huge margin since we are talking about 0 damage or pen damage. The question is: wouldnt other skills be more helpful? Something like Vigilance, because you normaly get torped in your smokescreen. And even if we are talking about 12 or even 14 pt cptns here, since there are obvious skills which are more useful. And on hightiers you can even take SE which is IMO more useful than SSE. Not to mention boosting your AA to insane levels or RPF. So who can ever ask for buffs to a ship

I mean, the problem is, you can just sail full broadside all game long (probably not first in the row), and nothing will attack you. If you have somewhat decent Cruisers and you can aim + RNG luck then its pretty easy in a BB. While in Cruisers you have to work for your damage and not die too soon. But thats what im saying, the AI is just utter [edited].

I did slot the Range module right away. Imo reload is good enough as it is, doesnt need half a second more. It is quite funny when you are shooting in the open and half the enemy team starts drooling because of that. Just last game with Seattle i started shooting the BBs open water and instantly 5 were targeting me (all 4 remaining BBs ) Had to stop because of that, but still got >1 million potential while having ~50% HP left.

Just for that, i gave you an angry reaction, because it feels like you are putting words into other peoples mouths. OP didnt call out buffs for Leander, he even stated Hightiers Neither did Forlornsailor call for Leander Buffs, he just stated that ColonelPetes arguement was pretty useless to begin with, as this topic was not only about Leander.

Well, then we have more Radar ships again, and i dont think we need any more of those. Good players can play Radar mino, but thats a minority. But as i said, i feel Radar Mino has much more carry potential than Smoke Mino. Once you get rid of the DDs, you are pretty save spamming from behind an island or just do torp runs. T9/10 Cruisers all have heal? Basicly leaves Edin as the only one having a Superheal while almost all others have no heal. At the same time, others get also more Radar/Hydro/DefAA from SI If they would be balanced around small caliber, they would have proper HE penetration (like 1/4) to begin with. IFHE is a supposed tradeoff, which isnt one -> dealing more alpha damage for less DoT damage, but since you can still cause sufficient amount of fires its no tradeoff really. Come on, you compare a DD to a ship which has a citadel the size of a DD basicly? Shooting a DD in smoke is very unrewarding for a BB, even more so since you can only deal 1/10 AP damage these days. If you are lucky you get your overpen worth of damage. Against Neptune/Mino you can easily get a Citadel worth of damage. Cruisers CAN do both, but its so much easier to wreck a Mino sitting in his smoke. I like to do that with Hindi. The only salvation for them is to angle away or straight up run. 1. Thats pretty much a strawman - RN CLs dont have a problem with Fires, even if they would have normal heal. That would mean, that lowtier Cruisers basicly only die to fires since they dont have a heal... Also, since i guess you have a Stalingrad (certainly your clan warrants that) you can deal massive amount of damage with that into the Aft/Bow of a Mino - got 40k once myself. And ofc every BB does that aswell, but its not really likely, still they can still get atleast 1 Cita. 2. The way hightiers are played these days, its actually pretty lame either way. (Thats why i go for Radar mino). Either your team runs away, or the enemy does. And best engagement for RN CLs is still pretty close to russian radar range...The amount of Radars does hurt RN CLs aswell, DD players often forget that.

1 out of 10 doesnt disprove it, does it? The other 9 could still suck - even tho they ofc dont. But for Hightiers he has a point, and he did mention that. Worcester weak, buff plz? Worcester got nerfed recently so it kinda means it was overperforming, Mino didnt get a nerf so it must be weaker than Worc. WHen they were first released, everyone was saying how OP that smoke shooting is. Took some time but ppl adapted to that + the huge amount of Radar ships and Smoke firing penalty makes using smoke simply worse than going Radar. Smoke gives you the illusion of safety, while it actually does the opposite. Playing Radar Mino is less risky if you manage to get rid of the DDs. You might get less damage in the end, but you certainly can carry harder with it.

Can you stop being negative against everything and using strawman arguements to try to prove a point? Leander is not the only RN CL and it CERTAINLY isnt high tier.

Sadly, he has a point tho. I feel the hightier RN CLs are better of with Radar in this Meta than Smoke. Rouge DDs all over the map, and a Radar Mino eats them for breakfast, while a Smoke Mino has problems with that. And if are forced to smoke in open water, everyone will shoot that smoke regardless if they have targets literally in their face - the Citadel chance is just too high which spells XP. Also enemy Radars are less of an issue since you wont play stationary. If your team collapses you have problems, or if the enemy team starts running you wont deal much damage either. If you get rid of the DDs however, you might be able to do some Torp runs instead.

Its a total joke how BBs are easy mode in that OP. I mean, obviously BBs arent easy enough, must programm aimbot using Bots to only shoot Cruisers. Its really great to see when the 4 BBs spawn in the beginning, and i dont know whom they are targeting, but often when i shoot my first time at them (even when i wait like half a minute) all 4 target me and most of the time 2 shoot instantly at me. Cant quite tell how is that possible with their BB reload, but it seems that they never shoot BBs only Cruisers? IF you are the weak Cruisers, you can be furthest target and they still constantly shoot you, its simply wrong Dont have one when we play 2x div usually? And i dont think its right that you HAVE to pick a certain ship in order to get 5 stars in a 7 player random match. I can understand that if you want to play certain OPs with 4 guys and you NEED a specific ship to get it done.

You know how retarded the average player is in this game? Ontopic: Since i havent played too many randoms, i didnt get the storm once so far. So i cant tell. But the same thing happens with Cyclones aswell. They turn wins into losses.

I see you guys went sealclubbing after CBs We went sealclubbing on hightiers Other than that, was really nice match against you guys And i thought it could have gone either way.

For me i feel its more usefull that i know if im targeted by more than the obvious ones. Like if i have Targets infront of me, and if the number exceeds that, then i know that someone might be shooting my broadside. Today was one of the days where that happened in my Seattle, as i got targeted by all remaining 4 BBs despite being the target furthest away AND kiting I mean, i was prepared for maybe 2 (Musashi / NC which i was shooting anyway), but Bismarck on the other side of the map + Cleveland at 14km were also shooting me. Forgot what the 4th BB was, maybe it was 2 NCs actually.

Man this HE spam is so annoying... (see last screen, getting RAPED by HE ) Other than that, was a solid game. Sadly, i wasnt supposed to get any kills, as i could shoot the targets down to ~20% of their HP, but then my guns went herp-a-derp, Atago took like 3 salvos at <10k HP.

Thx for the headsup Got doubloons and FreeXP. The latter wasnt really useful for me