DFens_666

Wow... i can feel the fun playing a DD like that Did the DD get any XP? surely nothing warrents that. The tirpitz atleast has a chance to get damage in, alltho i dont think someone who plays like that will deal too much damage. Who knows, maybe he was playing both ships by himself... i can hardly understand someone is willingly playing smoke deployer for someone else doing nothing.

1. you can work around that - if you are good that is. Or atleast minimize the risk. 2. Depends on the cap. In the end, if there is a Radar ship at that cap, concealment matters very little. 3. Already has good guns - and being able to throw 12 torps even at a lower rate is still a strong tool. Khaba doesnt have such a trait. 4. That was only changed recently, Harugumo wasnt more vulnerable upon release. I agree with what some people said in this thread: Its bad for the game in the form it is right now.

95% of BBabies would have died to the torpedo hit with permaflooding after DCPing the first fire Then go to forums: [edited]FIRE AND TORPS OP NERF111!!111

If i leave CVs out of it i have: - Highest avg dmg - Highest Survivability - Highest K/D - Highest avg kills on par with Cruisers - Highest avg plane kills (!) - Highest WR With BBs. In the meantime, avg cruiser tier is 7,3 while BB is only 6,5. Clearly needs buffs

Musashi sounds quite strong. Alltho, im not too keen on Arms Race... maybe its better in ranked mode who knows? (hated it back then because of idiot teammates screwing you over) But 6vs6 with musashi? Hell yeah, unless its a lot of DDs.

Today we play: Find the mistake Yes, played for 5 mins and still 2nd in XP My team basicly decided to let me die. I was only trying to save the regiments from destruction (which i did), so i got focussed by Myoko + all 4 DDs and while i was burning the Aobas from the side farmed me with AP, then bots performed perfect torpedo crossdrop on me, otherwise i would have survived. But basicly our "human waste" was maxrange sniping ~15-18km away.

TL;DR : Stalingrad is good at bashing noobs Truthfully tho, Stalingrads can ofc be very nasty. But if you are in a nice spot with your Hindenburg you can eat them like a little snack

Compared to my first FDG rant this was already as nice as it can get

For me FDG was worse... just so sluggish. But maybe 2nd after that.

Should i call a doctor for you? 253 games and still sane? I really didnt like it. Hated FDG more afterwards tho... which i skipped with FreeXP. GK is a breath of fresh air after those 2. But i do recommend shooting AP with it. Usually its still like miss...miss...miss.. couple of citas... 2 overpens.... miss

The problem occurs only (i think) when the target is turning. I tested it a while back in a training room. - Shooting stationary bots will never receive more damage than they should have -> 1 overpen = 1 overpen damage - If they start moving however, and you shoot them when they turn, getting extra damage seem to happen more frequently. So you have x Overpens, but you deal x+1 overpen worth of damage. Everytime i received these weird damage bugs, i was turning. Also i dont think speed doesnt influence that, as one time i was moving 1/4~1/2 in my salem, fully turning out, yamato got one shell on me (which didnt even hit, it splashed into the water) dealing 17250 damage, which is Citadel + saturated penetration.

WG thought 13mm plating would make BB AP overpen (but the problem was CA AP), so if thats true, then they actually would be more resilient.

wth is his goal then? Clearly its not shooting enemy ships, because half of the rest was still alive + several which would have spawned. He was not the only one to blame tho, because i suspect 1-2 others were shooting the aerodromes aswell. So: - Killing enemy ships -> not something he is interested in - Getting more XP -> not something he is interested in - ?? -> his goal I rest my case. btw i still had >2,2k baseXP, thx for ruining my game

You know what came to my mind when i read that? Is it actually more worth for bad players to die in 3 mins, and get like 200-400XP, rather than try to survive and play for 20 mins when they can earn 600-1200 XP? I mean, they certainly wont get many high XP games as they are simply too bad. If they die after couple of mins, leave battle -> next ship, rinse and repeat. Its only little XP each time, but overall probably more for them

Im gonna probably run into the same dilemma soon, just without the camo - Black seems rather uninspiring to me... mostly because i dont play that many DDs anyway - Stalin i only concider for CBs... Ive played some Divisions with Stalingrad, and it simply doesnt always deliver in randoms. It certainly is strong in CBs, and maybe a "must-have" ship as backup for that. - Not sure about Bourgogne either for Randoms... maybe? So basicly i have to decide Stalin for mostly CBs or Bourgogne for Randoms?

Well, then you should have a problem with IJN gunboat line aswell, as they basicly pen almost all non-belt armor of all ships - some BBs/Moskva/Stalin exception. And gunboating vs a CL in a DD sounds questionable anyway, even if you can hurt them? Unless the CL is busy ofc. 25mm armor doesnt protect you against the currently normal secondary builds anyway -> German BBs / French + Massa with IFHE. If you can get penned by BBs who dont run secondary build does it really matter? That means basicly sitting at ~6km to them. And for the 3rd time now: CLs would be more sturdy vs BBs, and i think that would be a more than fair tradeoff if you can get damaged by CA AP / DD HE or even some more secondaries (which dont matter imo). Currently they are island HE spammers, because of their arcs it allows them to shoot, while hardly anyone can hit them. If you change the armor so they cant get blapped, they might/should be able to open water gunboat. And thats something i would like to see: Dont make ships so vulnerable that the only viable tactic is sitting behind cover. If you catch them behind cover sitting like a duck, they should get punished for that. A BB certainly can do it - if it doesnt melt before that (or the CL simply bails). However a CA could flank around, and punish him - hardly works now because of the difference in HE DPM and the advantage in concealment.

Well, Premium ships have to be included obviously? I use John Doe on Missouri/Salem/US CA line (not at DM yet) Same for Yamamoto -> Musashi f.e. Jack Dunkirk i use on RN BBs, because the bigger smoke is useless for me, but JoaT is nice for the faster heal, currently on Nelson, DOY, KGV (conqueror some day). Bert im not sure because i already have 19 pt cptns on Fiji/Mino. The german ones i potentially see a use for them on Hindenburg in CBs (alltho i dont feel Hindenburgs are up to date anymore, we dont see them anymore, but im the Hindi player), because i do run Vigilance, and why not have an extra boost? With hydro the torp detection is pretty insane. The list is missing Ovechkin for US/RU or Both. I use US Ovechkin on DD line because of better SE. Already enough special cptns for CAs/BBs, and they would profit from the faster turret traverse, while DDs dont profit from that. (I think the combo sucks) Ive heard that Clubson might be the go to ship for him. Same for RU Ovechkin -> DD cptn. Dual Ovechkin, i dont have him, but i kinda assume the same.

Sometimes the initial idea might not be perfect, but thats why i feel brainstorming could make sense to maybe come up with a good idea. So i would want PROPER angling (which requires movement) and not just sitting still bow on and still win the engagement because your DPM is just better. Sadly, most of the time WG will still get it horribly wrong At this point everything which keeps the ships moving would be an addition to the game imo. Sitting still should be punished more, not less. Im with @Panocek on that one - we are talking about WG If you read carefully what it says, it already sounds bad: CL wont penetrate plating of higher tier cruisers - this could be translated to: Worcester will still penetrate everything as its the highest CL in the game, while a Cleveland wouldnt penetrate an Ibuki? (maybe not even a Seattle)

1. Well, if you keep bowtanking him, why should the CL win Worcester has more HE DPM than basicly any other Cruiser? 6 Pens on the bow would be like ~10k damage. That includes hitting all and no damage saturation. A Hindi can tank a Montana even when the Monty can overmatch his Bow (and lets say, BB AP hurts more than CA AP). Just needs to angle properly. If you elevate the belt armor, the CLs can bounce all other AP shells aswell. Not to mention CLs do have advantage in spotting, well except Zao. There are many options to not let them take too many CA AP damage, while still making it more valuable than spamming HE. 2.The problem with that, you will make them invulnerable to CL HE, but at the same time also vs CA HE, and - this is actually much worse - vs BB AP. Imo we already have enough problems by having ships that are extremely strong vs all classes (Harugumo f.e.). You cant make CAs that can outDPM and outtank BBs. The only way to make CAs more relevant is to nerf CLs, or buff CAs. Both ways can screw with interaction against BBs/DDs. Basicly a Buff will pretty much always result in screwing with the interaction with the other classes - this cant be desirable. Also: What can you do if they arent supposed to be HE spammers? They are forced into that PRECISELY because of everyone is bowtanking. AP is just situational for them. Whether it does occur often or not depends on your own playstyle and that of the enemies, and to lineup to some extend. F.e. If you play a Hindi in a game with 5 BBs/5 DDs you probably can hardly use AP at all, just because you have to - shoot DDs all the time - being permaspotted makes it harder to push to a flank to get broadside BBs - And even then they still can decide to angle against you again.

Forgot that one aswell: You cant look at DDs and say its the same thing compared to CLs. DDs getting overmatch by 203mm CA AP would be far worse than BB AP was. Better accuracy, faster reload, look at a Hindi with almost 2k AP penetration damage, with 12 shells in the air! Or Zao... That would be horrible. Cruisers should counter DDs, but that would have been crazy. With CAs / CLs its imo different: CAs are supposed to be stronger than CLs. Currently CLs just out DPM the CAs, while not being much more vulnerable. Depending on the angle, CAs can be more vulnerable.

Do i have to make the calculations on Henri DPM now or you know/admit that atleast for him its certainly not true. (Hint: The difference between Hindi and Henri with HE DPM is like 4-5k depending on reloadmodules - calculate in the MBRB and Henri wins easily) And it was even the first ship which could overmatch them. And its certainly more true for Stalingrad with its improved pen angles. Against Henri/Kron you have atleast a better chance to bounce on the belt compared to Stalin. This is a fact - you cant deny that one. Not to mention that Kron is equally fast as RN CLs, while Stalin and Henri are faster, the latter even more so, so basicly you could just run away. And the best way wouldnt be to rush them down (even if they couldnt overmach you) rather than to torp them. If we are talking 1v1, then its no problem to run away. If we are talking how it actually is in randoms, than your team should be licking their finger when they see a rushing Mino.

As i said, i dont oppose the idea (i think i also mentioned that once i made a thread about IFHE). And we are anyway just throwing out ideas here, its not like WG is usually listening to us The difference between the 2 ideas: - Having CLs getting overmatched by smaller caliber AP doesnt interact with BBs at all. Thats why i said remove the citadel, which make them more durable vs BB AP, while at the same time making them overmatchable is making them weaker vs CA AP. Imo thats not a bad idea, because CAs should be strong against CLs, and it wouldnt hurt if BBs would be weaker against CLs. - If you reduce HE damage based on armor thickness, BBs will again get the upper hand in that change, as they naturally have more armor. CLs get "more" weaker vs BBs than vs CAs. That was Panoceks 2nd idea. The first one would be more reasonable as it doesnt make a difference if the armor is 30 or 32mm. If you cant pen it, you will only deal x0,1 damage, which means its the same for CAs and BBs. I forgot to mention, that by having a higher belt armor, you can ofc use that to bounce shells (i wrote it, but i think you dismissed the idea rather fast). Also i totaly disagree that overmatching is braindead. You see the difference in BB behaviour between midtiers and hightiers? Midtiers you cant just sit bow in like a retard and get away with it. Hightiers you can do that unless you see a Yamato/Musashi infront.

But HE spam you cant do nothing against is fine? Thats what its currently is.... In general it doesnt matter, but since the HE DPM from CLs is so high, it actually does matter with CA <-> CL interaction.

That sounds good too, ive been thinking about that aswell, a bit different. Like you still have to take IFHE, but as a tradeoff you will deal less HE damage in general. That way you could choose, if you want to deal more damage to lightly armored ships/parts, or deal more constant damage but less.