DFens_666

Also, if one would have looked at the reward given, one might come to the conclusion that it aint worth it... for 1 credit...

I dont make the game, but ive said several times that rewarding damage as the major source of XP for all classes is wrong. You need DDs for other reasons than damage dealing to win the game. That they maybe arent rewarded for that enough is out of my hands. Thats actually the reason why i dont play too much DD myself, but will so if my division mates are picking other classes. If you make a class which is superior in spotting and which can deal large amounts of damage you essentially have CVs. A class which is/was considered broken or OP by many players, or even hated... DDs cant go that far tho, because they cant spot and strike at will, they are still limited by speed and islands. Why is there no teamplay in randoms tho? We can blame WG for that by removing teamplay. Before the smoke change, DDs could use their smoke to help their teammates. Now its worthless for the majority of ships. So because occasionally teams worked well together (or divisions for that matter) it created "problems" (?), so WG removed a teamplay option. Same can be said for other stuff, like BBs having better AA than Cruisers. Why have Cruisers for AA support? People just feel that they are entitled to deal damage regardless of what class they play, and imo thats wrong. Its like the occasional lone RU DD which refuses to cap/spot because he is a gunboat DD. Doesnt matter, if there is only 1 DD, you have to take that role. If there would be no DD, than the stealthiest Cruiser should take that role, simple as that. Actually the reason why i dont like this class-mixing like Harugumo f.e.. People feel that they can sit in their smoke blazing their guns, while the team is blind and they demand someone else is spotting for them. Why not play Cruiser? Obviously too risky ...

You not understanding the difference in roles between DDs and BBs... why am i not surprised Maybe you can teach us the art of (out)spotting all ships in a BB - while being undetected ofc? Clearly not a misplay by the DD? Sure you can take a cap with hydro against a DD, when there is like no backup on the DD side.

Actually, its not quite the same. Because he can still spot me. And as i said, spotting really is important in this game. So while i can prevent myself from getting torped due to various measures, i cant stop the DD from being there. DDs have low damage, but a high impact on the game, due to the spotting they can provide. If a DD spots, the rest of the team can negate the damage they receive by firing behind islands. Not getting shot at is still better than tanking. Pushing more often ends up you being dead than anything else... sadly as it is, in wows its always easier being the defender than being the pusher. Its not uncommon to see your team throwing the victory away because they are rushing into camping enemies. So i can try to push a DD out of a cap, which basicly makes me being permaspotted (if we are talking about a non-radar Cruiser), which usually means i will die there. Personaly i cant answer that. Since im playing divisions only, we are more often than not playing with a Radar cruiser. Or atleast a DD aswell. We can simply outtrade the enemy DD even without radar. Well i just exclude them as counters because they simply need other counters due to the fact that the majority of ships arent DDs in a match. Cruiser countering a Cruiser doesnt really matter, since a Cruiser has less impact on a game compared to a DD. Its just more likely to lose all DDs early on than lets say the BBs. BBs simply cant die so fast. An individual BB can, but not 4 or 5. While 3 DDs can easily die in a very small timeframe. The power from the remaining DDs is not their damage, but their spotting advantage from which the other team can hardly recover, and the torpthreat to some extent. Thats why im saying, if radar wouldnt exist, we would (almost) have the same situation like with current CVs. One bad CV vs a Good CV is something a group of 11 random guys cant withstand. Its possible, but not likely. In the end the DD can even be useless while not dead, and the enemy team has also a great advantage. DDs have inheritly a high impact on the outcome of the game. A good DD player will outplay enemy DDs, if needed, or they simply kill themselves due to stupity. To balance those good DDs, we need radar to not rely on bad DD players as much. A bad DD player might also profit from his teams radar ships, if they can scare away the enemy DD player. DefAA would be the same against CVs, but it doesnt work the same way. Doesnt change the fact that many people dont like it. Whether they are right or not is not the issue really.

I think Midway Rockets have 50mm pen... so byebye Khaba?

Yes, because unless i can kill the DD, i cant counter him. And DDs dont need to deal tons of damage to win a game. Ive been saying that all along: I dont see DDs as damage dealers. The spotting advantage it strong enough to win games. And even if the average damage is not so high, doesnt mean they wont kill anything. Its not like every ship has to kill exactly one enemy ship to get a kill. With DDs i feel i have the biggest difference between min and max damage. Some games are <15k, and sometimes you get those >80k games (talking mostly midtiers here) And this helps me how? I cant concentrate a whole game dodging DD torps - there are 11 other enemies in the beginning to kill me aswell. Dodging DD torps can open up your broadside. So the DD might not get the damage, but he contributed to it. Its like causing a flooding on a ship, and the others get the perma-fires. I feel radar has become necessary in this game for balance purposes. Without radar you would have Kamikaze clubbing going on at hightiers. We are down to talk about the meaning of words here. In the end, it comes down to the same thing. If DDs counter DDs, and CVs counter DDs. What happens when one sided loses its DDs and there is no CV around? The question is still in the room basicly. You are avoiding it because you dont want to say it out loud and you know im right on this one. Your answer was: Capra game some answer, which were: - CVs (majority of games doesnt have a CV) - DDs, you know that it happens regularly that one side lose most of their DDs while the others have theirs still alive. Even a 3vs1 DD situation favours the enemies heavily. Also thats why im asking, the question clearly is "what if there are no DDs left on one team?" - Radar, well yeah, we are talking about why radar is needed. So radar is a counter, and you guys say its not needed, so thats not a point - RPF.. leaves this one. Doesnt counter anything, It can tell me where the DD MIGHT be, unless something else is closer (beginning yes, endgame not necessarily). I cant blindly rush into a DD because RPF tells me the location. Also RPF is a questionable skill on everything but DDs and some Cruisers. Many, id even say the majority of the playerbase dislikes +/-2 MM... so i guess we have to make it atleast +/-1 or better same tier only? But thats not the point in a PvP game. Someone has fun, the other not. Thats how it is. I think the problem is, that people play bad because they already feel like a disadvantage right from the get go. Basicly proving their own point "enemies had all radars, we had to lose - and we did" while they played like crap. You see lowtier ships, especially at T8, doing the dumbest crap because they feel they cant do anything. Because they create that disadvantage, ofc they lose more often. Really? DIdnt know that actually... stupid WG logic right there

WG also said, uneven distribution of ship classes (one side has +1 DD/BB while the other has +2 Cruiser) doesnt make any difference either, yet they changed it anyway. Personal experience/feeling the team with more Cruisers lost however more often, simply because they cant spot nor tank like DDs and BBs. Cruisers have more influence on the game the longer they can survive, but if you have to fight vs superior spotting and firepower, it gets harder. So i dont necessarily believe what WG is feeding us. However on the subject of balancing radar ships, there have been some good points against that. F.e. ships who can choose between Radar or smoke like RN CLs and PA DDs. Force balancing could give away that they are infact playing with Radar, removing the surprise element of that choise. Sure some minor adjustments could make sense, sometimes one team has 2x Missouri and the other has 2x Musashi while it would be possible to swap one with the other. That would be perfectly acceptable, and i dont understand why that happens sometimes. Example from 2 Days ago, we had 3 GKs, enemy had 1 GK + 2 other TX BBs. 5 of the BBs were not in a division, so the game could have put 2 GKs in each team, but it didnt.

How does RL kill the DD? CV - i agree. CVs are worse than Radar. Probably they will get even worse with the rework, and this is something i dont like. But until very recently, CVs were not common (they have been a bit more lately), so that doesnt help much. If we would have a CV every game, maybe Radar would have been never needed? Who knows... Firepower + tankiness is again not spotting the DD. Spotting is the most crucial thing in this game, and many people simply ignore it. If i cant get rid of the DD, i cant counter him. Im not saying that they are invincible, but radar is simply a must have because it allows a team to not get steamrolled when their DDs suicided blindly in the first few minutes (mind they dont need radar to die!). The only real counters to DDs are - CVs - Radar end of list. DDs cant be a Counter to DDs, otherwise we face the same issues with current CVs, where the bad CV players just get crushed by the better ones, literally winning the game by themselves. Bad CVs are just worse than bad DDs, as you cant protect your team from being striked because they are glue lickers. You can however block the DD with radar and help your team with that.

No, they shouldnt focus Radar ships! Thats the big point where many DD players simply fail. Instead of trying to spot the radar ship, they want to kill it themselves - which usually ends badly. Radar ships are always my 2nd priority when i play BB. Well actually, after the BB AP change i might shoot the Cruiser instead of the DD if i can get citadels on him. Cant blame Radar if majority of the playerbase simply wants to farm damage on enemy BBs They simply have their priorities wrong: DDs want to kill radar ship, Cruisers want to burn down BBs, BBs shooting each other... Let me ask you: What should be a threat to a stealth torping DD when one side has no DDs left? Nothing? Excavatus pointed it out correctly... Its not like in a DD vs DD fight both DDs would die. One survives. Just last week i played Z-39, got rushed by a Cossack/Ognevoi division, they both died because they were stupid. What kept me from rushing towards the BBs? A Chapayev. Tbh i might not have been able to torp the BBs as they were running away, but still. The Chapa kept their flank DD free - and thats ok. If it wouldnt have been a Chapa, i might have torped him maybe, but he really played well around his Radar on CD, so i basicly couldnt. Cruiser should counter the DDs - most of them simply cant.

Does it matter? No - damage is done either way. So in the end, its still smarter to NOT throw the torps. Sure, sometimes you have to take the risk. Just today i ended up in a brawl with my Musashi vs a Missouri, and my Division DD tried to help me, because i was reversing and Missouri was going full ahead. I didnt catch the torps because i kept reversing straight.

Ill stay away from randoms at first, atleast the hightiers. T10 CVs dont seem to be balanced right now (as far as i can tell) Maybe low-midtier CVs arent as bad. Maybe i try ranked... but i really hate arms race. If both suck ill play Operations probably.

I maybe wrote it a bit weird Btw im not 100% sure on that one: I understood that only CV planes cant detect torps anymore? Or is there no difference to the planes on ships? If the planes launched by normal ships can spot torps, then i dont see a reason to take Vigilance. Simply because CVs are so rare currently. You dont get a CV spotting planes in the majority of the game.

TBF, Excavatus was talking if there would be no Radar around. So the first sentence doesnt make much sense. Honest answer: No he shouldnt win. The problem is, many DDs are just fixed upon radar ships. Its like they cant let go because they are triggered. And then they die, and then they whine about radar.... Should i try to yolo any BB with every Cruiser i play and start whining aswell? Nope. When DDs get so strong, that they can murder BBs, Cruisers will become collateral damage. See Harugumo. Gets 32mm pen, shits on every Cruiser aswell.

Some nice games today again - this time we took @WolfGewehr with us That was a really tight game in the end. We won by points. It was Buffalo (10k HP) and me vs full HP Tirpitz/Hindenburg and another Hindenburg with only 3k HP. I couldnt turn away anymore, and i thought i have to ram the Tirpitz. Luckily he didnt know what torps are. The enemies moved with one blob over the map and ofc with Cyclone. That almost made us lose. Got 2 blindshot kills in Cyclone minimap marks the spot not OP kk? 2,4 million potential and i had plenty HP left. Was constantly getting dakka'd by Salem, Minotaur, Khaba + 2x HE spamming Bismarcks at 20km. I kept pushing - they kept running. Worchester and DM dont know what radar/hydro is. Worchester died to KHABAROVSK !!! TORPEDOES !!! They kept pushing the Mino/khaba duo which perma smoked each other... Salem blapping - i like that one Good old Musashi - (usually) doesnt fail. Missouri tried to rush me around the island, he almost made it to my broadside, my backturret blapped him Last game was a 122k KGV game. Toptier, i just went pushing through the map. Enemy hightier Nelson was island camping, HE spamming in his spawn

I always thought it would be fairer if CVs couldnt spot torps. But seeing how rare CVs are these days, i dont think it matters really. Only if they would be more prevelant after the change, it doesnt really matter as you can have games all the time where you dont have a CV, aka no torpspotting either.

Didnt they remove flooding/fires on friendlies some time ago?

Kronshtadt will be removed next week tho, so that is one thing to consider. If it returns? Who knows... The dispersion comes closest to a North Carolina just by plain numbers. But Kronshtadt does ofc have much faster shells which makes hitting easier. Playstyle is roaming around using speed and longrange shots. Due to the armor it can be punished by BBs tho. You can go close, but if they angle you will lose the fight most likely.

I even shot you a couple of times, the first salvo i got a weird cita on you Dunno why... i suppose WG logic. The problem was, your teams Musashis kept shooting me when i was sitting behind B. When i moved away from that position because your FDG was going through C, the downfall began. I could have sat there and tanked a while longer, but the FDG would have punished me severely soon. After i stopped being focused, our team started dieing like flies. Even our Musashi went full broadside against a dieing Musashi just to die himself

I think this is somehow due to the worst players playing shima (because it has 15 torps) and they play like crap. The biggest stupidity i always encounter by Shima players. Ignore caps, even uncontested once. We just won a really tight game because enemy 2x Shima div ignored caps for far too long and we won by points in the end. Shima rushing into enemy spawn right from the start gunboating a GK? Yep seen it. Or Shima going middle on Epicenter and gunboating a Buffalo, happened just recently Z seems to be bad in general, and i think good players seem to avoid it. Gearing suffers a bit like shima being around the longest (so bad players have it too) but they seem to prefer shima because of said torps. YY nerf might have removed good players for playing her, so again not so good players keep playing it. Daring is new and strong -> best players are with that one (or Harugumo possibly, but imo Harugumo is not a good carry boat, its selfish damage farmer) Khaba doesnt fit the role of torp destroyer to bad players, and i guess noobs dont like being spotted. Grozo probably similiar. RU DDs arent well liked because they are gunboats.

My stats actually look similiar to @Ze_Reckless 's. These are overall stats tho, because i dont play Solo anymore. But solo does influence T3 a lot from back in the beginning TX needs more games... but even recently 3x Div T8/9 we get better WR than on T10. But i believe this comes down to the ships we play. F.e. the BBs i play on that tier NC - Musashi - GK. The first 2 are much stonger than the 3rd imo. So even when lowtier with NC, i can achieve more than playing GK and get a random T8 who just might yolo doing nothing.

Trick the enemy into thinking you are a nooby?

I feel that hightiers is populated by both incompetent players and the (tryhard) divisions - so in the end i think its not easy to get a good solo WR on it anymore.

Thats probably more due to the german turtleback armor. You can citadel Roon/Hindenburg close range - but its not so easy really.

Met @ulysses_nemo with his Alsace in the enemy team... we couldnt carry them. Our team lemming trained to A, i tried to get into flanking position back from our spawn, got fucked by your DD pretty hard. I kinda feared he might be there, but i didnt really think he would have gone that far south. Then tried to kill those Abruzzis which took ages because only overpens. And our team suicided into your spawn camping Musashis - nuff said.

Uff, what a day again. Some really shitty games, some really nice games. Worst game was 9600 damage win with my NC. Enemies just died while i tried to shoot DDs and a Worchester. I killed his turret, but that didnt deal too much damage My options to shoot were a bow-on Stalin at 19km reversing or an island hugging HIV. Ok, so now to the good part 1st JB game - its ok so far. I really hate the Thunderstorm crap, obstructs vision. And we had a Salem at our flank so i kinda had to deal with it. 2nd NO - first really super game with it. The first 2 were really bad-mediocre. Nice hardcarry from our division tho 3rd Musashi can be awesome or not. First game with it we lost - guns derped hard. Only overpens. Citadels too late (150k damage). Next game they went full [edited]YOU mode Task 4 was 180k damage to Cruiser/BBs - did that in one game Added bonus: Killing a Kronshtadt with 2 Salvos. First salvo 30k, that was intentional. 2nd salvo i tried to aim for nagato, but i aimed a bit too high with my spotter plane (i knew immediately). Then the Kron got spotted behind him and turned right into my shells