DFens_666

Has one major flaw: Good players can know by the damage they receive what ship is shooting them Could even potentially be known by amount of shells fired and reload speed. F.e. if i receive a hit causing 4884 damage, i know its a Yamato or Musashi shooting me.

Why do you like the update if it ruined gameplay I dont think WG will make necessary measures to prevent this blob-camping meta... they would need to act fast, because once its in the average players mind, its hard to get out of it. Also they probably survive longer, so they like it... which will make it even harder to stop this meta-shift.

No, this is not so much about balancing AA and planes, and yes, i made my own CV thread, like everybody else But i think the real issues have been mostly ignored, because neither side is wrong right now. Alltho, some people have mentioned it. - CVs are unfun to play because AA can be too strong, especially when being lowtier. I think this is the core issue for most CV players right now. And there have been warning signs about this basicly from the beginning. The gameplay is very repetetive. So in order to have fun, you have to be able to strike targets. Otherwise its totaly unfun. - Especially DDs and Cruisers (to some extent) are also unfun to play because their movement is hindered by being permaspotted Some DDs simply cant do anything, and this is understandable. They rely on their stealth, and currently CVs take it away from them. Its not only that they strike them, but they give away their position. Some cruisers need their central location, preferably at islands in order to do their job: Fighting DDs, Radar if available, and try to help with AA. Currently, getting into those positions is nigh impossible, because the CV will spot you 45 secs into the game, which will attract BB fire. The 2 issues have nothing to do with one another. Even if the CV is not striking a specific ship, he is still spotting it. This creates issues for DDs and Cruisers = game is unfun. At the same time, WG is trying to make CVs more popular, but they will achieve the opposite if CVs are unfun to play. Which many people are saying right now. So we are in a state, where 3 out of 4 classes have big issues, the 3rd one being Cruisers, even if not all, but some of them. In the end, if we cant stop the development of "Blob-Meta" it will remain unfun to play imo. Average people have a hard time to change they behaviour, unless something is forcing them. Currently, the game is forcing them to blob up. Even in games without CV ive seen Blobs being formed, and they camp in the back. So once it is in their head, they will keep playing like that, unless they get forced to do something else. So how to tackle it: Actually, some people have said, CVs could only spot for the minimap. Initially, i didnt like that at all. But right now, i think it would actually solve both problems. If CVs would only spot for themselves (or minimap basicly), it would give Cruisers the ability to move up and support their DDs with AA. This will benefit DDs aswell, as they can play aggressive again since they have AA cover with them. Also flanking is less futile since you would be targeted by the entire team. And i think the detection for planes should go away, so they have a harder time to know if something is in range or not. Planes are pretty fast as it is, and i dont think reducing Air spotting range is the way to go either. At the same time, AA needs to be tweaked so CVs have more fun to play, even while having less of an impact. But because of DoTs, its kinda hard to say which way to go. Either more alpha with less DoTs or less alpha with more DoTs Both have pros and cons. Even if you reduce fire/flooding chance, it can still screw you because RNG. If you increase DoTs, then it will certainly screw you, if you cant defend yourself, but on the other hand, if the CV is being unlucky, then he wont get the DoT to work. Overall it might be easier to balance them by alpha damage only, but i dont think that will happen. So overall, im not sure what would be the best way to go. And we need to balance the -2 tier difference for BOTH sides. Here are 2 options, which both make sense imo: https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/113339-standardized-planes-and-quasi-restricted-matchmaking-for-cvs/ https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/113339-standardized-planes-and-quasi-restricted-matchmaking-for-cvs/?do=findComment&comment=2864257 Tl;dr - Reduce spotting from CVs to reduce the pressure from DDs and Cruisers -> more fun for them - Remove situational awareness for Planes -> if you want to find a DD, its still possible, but not so easy as before - To give CVs something back, make them less punishable -> more fun for CVs - Reduce the impact for -2 MM -> more fun for everyone - Blob-Meta Needs to stopped IMMEDIATELY ! Win-Win ?

If we would have sufficent other captain skills to use, it might be an option. But in the end, everyone will kinda have the same build, or you could try to paint a picture in your skill tree But on the other hand, if i want to become stronger vs planes, i should be able to if want... so yeah, might be more balanceable, but on the other hand also not so good.

I dunno if there is a meaningful way to implement that... And im pretty sure WG wont do it anyway. Even tho its correct what ICG says in the YT vid, i think that controlling the AA yourself puts much more strains on Cruisers than on the others. DDs could potentially fight planes unless they are engaged with another DD. BBs can afford to switch to AA atleast between salvos, because they have longer reload. Cruisers however rely on constant DPM, while also having the best AA available (that wouldnt change anyway even if you could controle AA yourself). And there would need to be an option to NOT use the guns incase they would be AI controlled. Blindly firing guns with a DD would be horrible Personaly i thought about a fun scenario, were a division of 3 could play one ship - one is shooting mainguns, the next is using secondaries and the 3rd is using AA guns. Ofc this could only be a fun operation, because there would need to be sufficient stuff around to shoot at for everyone so it wouldnt be possible in a random game, but still, i think it could be really funny

When you dont care for balance and only want OP crap Couple of hundred bucks per year - aint no big deal

Surely there were many differences between old and new CVs. With RTS CVs, you couldnt risk rushing your planes straight ahead into the enemy spawn - you would have most likely lost them to enemy fighter planes. New CVs can spot with impunity. There is nothing stopping them except ships AA (technically fighter consumable which can be avoided ofc). And you spot the ships outside of their AA range, compared to before, where you could be inside Minotaur AA range and suddenly you have to fly back 1,6km within his AA bubble. And once you spot a DD, its basicly impossible to lose him anymore, unless he is running into AA cover from his fleet. CVs had a disproportional influence on the outcome of the battle compared to other ships. Because of that, the ability to lock down the enemy CV to 100% by gaining air supperiority needed to be countered somehow. The better CV player was able to deny spotting and striking capability of the other CV with those Fighters. So basicly to prevent that, they got rid of the fighter squads. Also it would be questionable to launch fighterplanes when you can only control one squad.

Guess my Dallas didnt get the memo

So where goes my DPS then? Its not showing top right corner either, as you can see, the number only increases by 153 DPS is not shown on screen and not in the plane damage? That would be weird actually.

Yes, those sound reasonable. I also think, almost no DoTs is the way to go. Its far easier to balance it properly. Remains the question about US HE Bombs, if that is working out properly on TX. Ranger has 2 bombs per run, so getting multiple permafires seems out of the question from what i can tell. I think the way CVs are supposed to be is clearly about dealing damage. Maybe the alternative line might be about other things. But currently, everything points towards dealing damage as primary objective. Spotting aswell, even tho WG doesnt accnowledge that (yet). But i think, spotting needs to be changed in order to make necessary balances so that everyone is able to enjoy the game. If you change the spotting, then you can balance the CVs around damage.

That actually got changed down the line, and its repairable same as Penetrations are now. http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Repair_Party_Data

I just have to ask, you know torprange from DDs? If those 2 blobs sit at 18-20km in hightier games, and the DD has 10km torprange, that means he has to leave all AA cover from their fleet, making them vulnerable to the planes. So even if the blob would be a good target for DDs, they simply cant cash in on it.

I just made a very similiar topic with a bit different approach, but ill give some feedback here aswell. 1. would be overkill, that is not good. The CV needs to have some form of self defense incase a DD is attacking him. 2. Still a bit too short imo, i mean, couple of hundred meters more might work actually. But it still leaves Cruisers being spotted. I think the best solution is, that Cruisers should move with their DDs aswell, so that the DD has AA cover. If you make DDs invulnerable to CVs, then they are doing their own thing, while Cruisers are getting shafted really hard. Best case is having the teamplay option -> make the Cruiser able to move with the DD to an island and help him with AA. 3. Thats already in the game. If you fire your guns, Plane spotting range is bigger than normal.

Yes, i think that sounds good aswell and would work. It would atleast give CVs some teamplay in certain cases. I just think it needs to happen fast. Balancing AA values wont solve this issue one bit. And when WG said, they are pretty close now, then the CV players will keep complaining, and so will the DD players.

Might aswell remove CVs then. I mean, you can ignore that there needs to be a solution for everyone, but that doesnt make it less true. CVs are here - and i dont think WG wants to remove them. So the best way to deal with them is, by making the game fun for everyone. If CVs are unpopular, WG failed. If DDs/Cruisers are unfun to play, then WG has shot themselves in the foot even harder. Both are unacceptable for them in the long run, since they will cash in on Premium CVs aswell Flanking is no teamplay then? Somtimes you need someone from your team to move to a flank to break enemy formation. If everyone has to sit in one blob, its lame to play. Sitting in on one spot is not teamplay in my book.

You know you contradicted yourself right there. You said, it must be because the CV played badly. And then you say, they didnt expect you. Clearly they were stupid then. - They have the means to find you, but they didnt -> Their fault - If you blindtorped them because they were spotted previously and didnt move -> again their fault - You torped them while you spotted them - game tells them they are spotted but ignored it be either not moving or moving in a straight line -> their fault. Its literally what BBs are hearing when a DD is torping them "git gut / use WASD / take Vigilance / dont go off alone" hyprocricy is the new thing in the forums these days i suppose...

A class can be limited to one and it would be perfectly fine and balanced. DDs are hardcapped aswell... Why dont you adapt then? Its a new class, you havent played it before. What makes you think that you should master it within a couple of games? Clearly game experience with CA/BB/DD will help dropping those bombs... no wait, it doesnt Edit: Ok, ill stop talking to you now, it clearly shows you dont know what you are talking about...

The Midway was obviously AFK or didnt know what to do, because Its his only game with new Midway I guess being AFK is the new benchmark now... Would be like saying, BBs cant Citadel cruisers if the BB is afk So basicly you had 1 CV as an opponent, and he can still be retarded for not looking for you. I mean, obviously he was spotted when you torped him...

At this point, i think only a reduction in spotting can fix the mess we are in right now. Its just unfun to everyone. CV players are mad because they have a hard time dealing damage. And at the same time, DDs and Cruisers to some extent are mad because they are permaspotted. The only class which has less issues than the others are BBs, as they usually are not the first in line to be targeted by a CV and being spotted is less of an issue. And we need some for of balancing between CVs <-> other ships when either is -2 tier.

The games yesterday were absolute horsesh*t... Its not necessarily that CVs deal too much damage, but the meta it created. Longrange snipefest, stationary. Who would have thought it could get worse than before? Basicly it got, because flanking is literally impossible when the CV(s) find you. Ive also seen several! DMs hugging the border, basicly staying as far away from the enemy as possible... Most of the not even shooting

Ye well, could have written closer instead But it shows how WG sees the role of CVs. Whether you like it or not is a different story.

Thats actually the problem with the new CVs: you didnt. It depends on the CV who is attacking you. Well, unless you are a Minotaur or Worcester i suppose... Also it depends if you had backup or not. Im not 100% sure about this, but it feels like DDs have best chances to get the planekills (maybe because they have highest hitchance?) Yesterday 14 planekills with 25k planedamage with Dallas vs T6+T8 CV... so thats way more planedamage than they have HP in comparision. So some of them didnt die, and some planes got shot down by others. So imo this creates issues: - Planekills means very little without context. Unless you were alone and killed all those planes by yourself. Then it comes down to the skill of the CV attacking you. Feels like many people are still at the mindset of old CVs where planekills were only 1 or 0. - Damage to planes means also not much. You could deal lots of damage without actually getting a planekill. This is a problem if you want to balance AA. If i cant shoot down planes fast enough, its basicly useless, even tho i can accumulate damage over time.

I can upload the replay from my Dallas game today vs 2 CVs... i got 14 planekills cycling through all DefAAs + fighter consumables (both premium ofc). CVs didnt give 2 shits about losing planes, they just kept dropping anything near me (didnt even go for me really ...) btw, in your game were 2x T6CVs

This happens when the enemy ships escorting the transport ships arent getting killed in a specific timeframe. Rarely happens tho...

I just had a Neptune today... with range upgrade shooting 18km at a reversing CM... saying he is helping the BBs with AA.... being stationary bow on using front turrets only [edited]meh, did i just thumbs-up your post? This rework makes some weird crap happen This. Couple of games today with 2 CVs were horrible. Ones with T6 ships vs T6+T8 CV gangbanging up on me/us. In a [edited]Cruiser. Permaspotted + lowrange + BBs that shoot 20+km = not cool.