DFens_666

Well, DDs will get more damage out of it, if some people will not DCP one flooding. So they get more XP because more damage... sounds perfectly like WG tactic

Thats how you are seeing Cruisers - not WG. And why do you think, Cruisers are sitting mostly behind islands? Because its fun? Nope, because otherwise they get obliterated by BBs. Basicly thats already what you wish for: Most Cruisers can not attack a BB on their own WITHOUT being in cover. Some Cruisers can kill BBs by kiting or even straight up rushing them. But thats a BB without Backup then, and if you can get flanked in the process, you cant do it either. Isnt that being picky about your targets? And this requires skill - or lack thereoff from the enemy to some extent aswell. While the only skill attacking with planes is determined by the attacker -> the CV player. There is no skill involved using AA, it runs automatically. Oh and btw, you know how long it takes to burn down a BB? Probably not if i look your Cruiser stats BB can run away or hide if he is that scared. Cant run away from planes tho...

Thats a strawmen and you know it... I guess you cant answer the question: How to balance attacking a Full AA ship without being able to nuke half his HP in the process. How is it chip damage if you hit several bombs or torps? And they do infact play more 1v1 than other ships. If there is one ship you want to target with your planes, the only thing in your way are other ships close to him. Assessing this situation is done by minimap, after that, its You vs the Other ship. There is nothing else bothering you. Even if i would only attack 1 ship in my Cruiser, i can still get nuked by a BB 18km away on the other side of the map. No other AA can disturb you while attacking that one ship you want to attack. Also WG said you should pick your targets carefully, aka dont strike a group of ships. So its clear they want CVs to strike lone ships, but not a fleet of ships. One could translate this as 1v1.

ye well... ofc not only You could say the high RoF is the tradeoff for having no HE shells (and ofc no DefAA option like other Cruisers !)

Minotaur is balanced around having good AA. It has a huge Citadel which makes it extremely squishy against other targets, even more these days since introduction of BCs like Kronshtadt/Stalingrad and the upcoming ones. Im basicly talking about 1 ship, maybe 2 if we consider Worcester in that list. Its not all Cruisers, its 2 specific Cruisers. And there is one BB which fits the description, its called oktyabrskaya revolutsiya. Pretty much immune to low caliber HE spam because of the armor and "immune" to fires because DCP. So we have 1 BB which is almost immune against all HE spammers at his tier I guess soon there will be more with the introduction of RU BBs since they get the same DCP - so it makes them immune to fires pretty much! You are not supposed to attack several ships grouped together - you have to accept that. If you dont accept that, i cant argue with you anymore, because you see the CVs role wrong to what they are supposed to do... aka how WG sees them. They said in the stream today, you should carefully pick your target.

I asked earlier, but i didnt get an answer about AP bombs, but i started the game now myself, and here is the problem: If you can get one attack through per squad, the max damage a Hakuryu can deal is 3x8500 = 25500 with 3 Citadels. Then tell me how you want to balance this Because a CV is playing a 1v1 vs the ship they attack... and we have been talking about a CV attacking a Mino. So if you start to compare how other classes interact with one another, then you must have the same base to look at things. I cant say, any Cruiser can burn down a BB IF... thats not the same terms that the CV has

Speccing against Fires + using all modules and flag makes you pretty "invulnerable" to fires. Take a GK which has armor to shatter most HE shells aswell, and its actually very strong. You can kill him maybe if you have RNG on your side and start enough fires. Thats if you dont get blasted away in the meantime He can atleast several times... also catching a ship which is as fast as your own makes it rather questionable to ever kill it. So the best they can achieve would be a stalemate, CV running out of planes and running away from the Mino. Then again, they cant. Its only theory. Or you are bending the arguements so they fit your agenda, like a Worcester can burn down a BB. Thats most likely true if the Worcester has someone spotting for him. If you go 1v1 - its not a thing anymore. There is a difference if we are talking how the game is, or how others want it to be. Currently Mino can shred the planes - so we dont need to talk about this scenario, its already happening in game. And WG balanced it that way, so i can atleast claim that the developers are on my side aswell. So im not sure what does this have to do with me playing CVs or not - im accnowledging how the game is right now. And i was only talking about Minotaur In concur with that - its a good question. Would be far easier to balance if you could only do minimal adjustements (if any) like the AA mod 1 in 3rd slot. But if you invest MOST of you captain skills into AA, it should do something. However, what options do some ships have? For Mino you could take RPF + SE maybe just for troll-lolz... Cant really comment on that, but before rework i actually prefered playing Mino with Radar. Maybe that has changed now with the camping meta, and you probably dont need radar to fend off DDs. But a Radar Mino would have more problems vs planes than a mino sitting in smoke. ATleast with current mechanics.

Ye, Ryujo is definetely the way to go in OPs. Only tried Ranger once and it was really meh. I mostly try to stay away from the first fleet of ships, but going for TB drops on the Ishizuchis can work. THen go with DBs for the northern fleet which consists of mostly T4-5 ships and it feels rather easy. The 5 ships guarding the Transports seem to have no AA, so you can just go all in, and the Fuso ive managed to kill with permaflood most of the time (unless RNG was against me). Team managed to kill the other 2 BBs in the meantime usually.

Can i remove AP bombs? I think i cant... Last time i checked the T10 Cruiser stats, Minotaur was basicly the worst in everything. So basicly it doesnt do too good really. Actually, i think this got maybe a bit out of hand, maybe we can try to get to even terms and understand what we are talking about, i think both of us (including @MortenTardo ) are maybe misunderstanding what we really want, because saying something like this feels like you say that i dont want that - and thats simply not true, and im really feeling offended by that. Ive put lots of my freetime into thinking about how this game would be more fun to play FOR EVERYONE. You know why im in the forums so much lately? Because playing WoWs is UNFUN for me aswell, and im not even playing CVs. And its not necessarily when there is a CV ingame, the whole gameplay/meta is upside down, and i dont want to play that way. So about the core issue we have been talking about, if any ship should be basicly invulnerable to a CV strike? Lets look at Minotaur, since it doesnt have DefAA, so i think this leaves one possible balancing hurdle out of the way. - What if you attack a Mino in your T10 CV which has NO AA skills and NO AA modules. Just a plain minotaur with default AA. Should you be able to attack him? Yes i agree. The question is, how much, but in either case Minotaur was introduced as a strong AA ship, so even if you want to attack him, you shouldnt be able to use all drops from one squad. - What if you attack a Mino with ALL AA skills and Modules? Should you be able to attack him? Quite frankly, my answer is no. You need to invest a lot of captain skills and 2 modules for AA, so shouldnt it do something? With old RTS CVs, you had many squads and it came down to RNG. If you would have been lucky, you might have gotten something through to him. But now, even if you get only 1 attack through, you might even get decent damage in on him. So if you can basicly kill the strongest AA ship in a 1v1, why is that balanced? Can i kill any BB with my Hindenburg? Nope, i can kill some in a 1v1, and they even need to let me do it (either showing broadside, or not run away). I cant just go there and kill a Yamato 1v1 simply because he can overmatch me on most parts. This works for most classes if you look about their natural counter. Well, Cruisers without Radar have a hardtime killing DDs 1v1 really... Because even if i shoot down the majority of his planes, he can still come again... and again... and again. Its like throwing enough crap at him till he might crumble. Thats why i rather go with, full AA build on a basic strong AA ship should prevent you from getting dropped. Because even getting one drop through will get him killed before he can ever reach the CV. CVs can win 1v1s vs BBs/DDs/other Cruiser - but dont let them kill EVERYTHING.

Look at the people you are "defending" (you know how i mean that) and you would understand why any normal person would start to pull their hair out of the head... They write BS all the time. They say minotaur can shoot HE shells, and you defend that guy? Seriously...

Cmon... this is utter BS and you know it... If it would matter that much if i reinforce the right sector, than you are actually agreeing with me, that if i do this simply task correctly, im allowed to shred the planes. If not, then attack can go through. And that doesnt sound stupid to you? Maneuvering feels even less useful than with RTS CVs. If you turn full in, maybe dodge the first wave of torps (as an example) and you dont kill the squad fast enough, he will be on the other side getting perfect broadside. Yup, those Minos wont get blapped by the BBs. Thats a total strawmen and you know it. This will never happen, even if CVs would be totaly OP. Nothing is forcing you to press DefAA for TBs... Same reason nothing is forcing you to active defAA when planes are at maxrange. Thats how idiots got killed by CVs. New CVs have it far easier simply because of the missing panic from DefAA, if they get through, they can get reliable damage in. Also its questionable if enough planes from 2 squads would get through to pose a great enough risk that you would need to press DefAA for them, considering you sit in an AA cruiser. Ofc i had to activate DefAA because he was moving in with 4 squads. Once again, skill actually mattered with old CVs, as this guy would have needed much more time to attack me again, and then my Def AA would have been back up. Ye, clearly im the biased one... im actually very sad that people like you have literally become CV apologists - nothing else to say to that

Everything? Or are you saying, that it doesnt matter if i can move with 200+kts speed over the map and can attack the target which is moving alone on the flank compared to my Cruiser with 15km range (which would be a joke btw to call minotaur max range effective) which would need to move there first for several minutes HOPING it wont run away. Even BBs which have the range to almost strike anything what they desire, its down to dispersion that they actually DONT deal that damage. Basicly a CV can deliver reliable damage anywhere on the map. Yes, its slower ofc, but its still balanced if its not too high or too low. What are the odds that they remove AP Bombs? 0 maybe? They just put them on all IJN CVs, i think they are here to stay. And since they are the strongest tool against Cruisers basicly, we have to check how much damage that strike can possible deal. Oh and btw, its not about Minotaur only ofc. Other Cruisers which can slot DefAA were much safer vs AP Bombs because of the panic. Panic doesnt exist anymore, so if you get through, you can deal reliable damage. With RTS CVs they actually couldnt do that, because they most likely would have missed the target. People should have adapted to RTS CVs - i think that would have been much easier than this thing now. Just as a sidenote: Everyone is hating this game, forum is full of people flaming each other, and even when you start playing a game players are instantly flaming there aswell, never existed before really. And imo Mino was fine with old CVs, because its very squishy against other ships. We can just agree to disagree here and stop this, obviously we arent going anywhere talking about old balancing.

The CV can attack something else Why is that so hard to understand? Its like DDs going full retard when they see a Radar Cruiser - the DEMAND they should be able to kill it. If the CV cant attack because they are in a blob, well... then the enemy is just countering you as a TEAM and frankly they should be able to stop you then. How many AP bombs is Hakuryu dropping now in one strike? Dont want to start the game. So you tell me, how many damage that one strike can inflinct on the minotaur in case he gets all citadel hits. Minotaur full AA build was LITERALLY untouchable with RTS CVs, and that was ok aswell. Suddenly, its not because everyone wants to play CVs (went from CV haters to CV lovers basicly), and they DEMAND !!! that they have to strike any ship, and it doesnt stop there, they also demand they should strike the entire enemy fleet. THIS IS NOT BALANCED FFS

1. How many BBs are there? Like 80+? You pick the one, and demand that there is no exception that a CV can strike any ship they want (talking about 8 CV vs 250+ other ships or something like that). Missouri is an exception - which still requires misplay from the DD or atleast good play on the missouris part, since missouri is spoted OUTSIDE its radar range, so might aswell say, Minotaur is the exception which cant be attacked. Probably Worcester is the 2nd. You have almost 250 other possible ships to strike 2. Thats down to the skill of the players You should know that. My skill does not influence my AA, but your skill does influence the planes which can attack, so i see it as balanced. 3. Did you play RTS CVs? Too lazy to check, just want to know. I mean, basicly any AA ship putting DefAA on was untouchable to a CV. So there is nothing new here. If anything it got easier for the CVs because you can now spot the ship outside of his AA range - old Mino could lure you into his AA bubble. Just the last day of RTS CVs i had an enemy CV in my seatle trying to bait my DefAA. Told him its not gonna happen so he went full in. He lost all his strikplanes (which are way more than you have now in one squad) and got 3k damage on me WITH AP BOMBS that is! If you let one strike through from AP bombs, i think that will be way more damage than 3k with new CVs... Stop writing BS then It was simply WRONG what you said.

Can you like stop maybe? Your game knowledge is somewhere between 0 and 0... You might want to use google to find out what is the problem with your sentence

Since when can a BB strike a DD at his own discretion? Can a Cruiser attack a BB at will? Nope. BBs can shoot DDs when the DD is spotted by teammates, or when the DD is a moron (or russian DD), and attacks that BB. Cruisers have a bit more freedom as they got the range, but not the armor most of the time. But since we know, Cruiser are hardly overperforming, it is balanced. CVs can strike any target at any place on the map - within half a minute basicly. There must be something which can deny him that ability. If you want to get rid of the AA fortress, tell your [edited]teammates to shoot it. If they cant do it and are stupid WHY DO YOU THINK YOU DESERVE TO WIN/TURN THE GAME? But i see, teamplay is not wanted. Must strike anything, anywhere at all times, because MUUH DAMAGE!!111

They wouldnt expect more if they understood what WG wants to achieve

Personaly i took also Expert Loader - since the AP got changed and only deals overpen damage on DDs, i feel that its necessary to switch fast enough.

They didnt foresee people abusing the torps like that. They however want that Hakuryu has those torps... I did it, and definetely not regretting it. I used 1,2 million FreeXP pre-rework and got Haku/Midway just to collect the steel. That i got an extra 200 steel the day the rework hit was just bonus. I sold both T10 CVs and also got the FreeXP back for the T6+8 ones. Then i used to XP i had on my T4 CVs to re-research and rebuy the T6 CVs.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Commander#Inertia_Fuse_for_HE_Shells Take this skill, its a 4 point skill for your captain. Colorado has 25mm armor almost everywhere. WIthout IFHE, you cant penetrate his armor with your HE shells. If you take this skill, you will deal MUCH more damage.

He didnt own them pre 0.8.0. tho. So he doesnt get FreeXP back in return. (you couldnt know that, but i knew because of previous posts of him )

8k battles... like really? Take IFHE for shchors, you can rape a Colorado, nuff said 10k every 30+ secs will feel like crap in comparision what you can do to him. In any case, you should git gud

So ive actually got confused after i watched my own replay from yesterday where i wanted to analyze some stuff. First the Data: - Dallas long range DPS 72 with 81% hitchance, that means 58 DPS. - AA reinforcement 25%, that means 75%/125%. Here the screenshots 1. Pic the planes are in the weak sector. I deal 153 damage with first DPS. They are in the longrange sector. 2. Pic Now the planes are in the reinforced sector, once again, i deal 153 damage as you see. And to get more confusing Between pic 2 and 3, 3 seconds have passed. DPS is applied every 3 secs, because i didnt deal any damage between that. So now the math: Without reinforced sector, my DPS should be 58. Since we just established, DPS only ticks every 3 seconds. 3x58 = 174. -10% from captain skill aircraft armor = 156. Could be rounding stuff or whatever the discrepency. But i guess the math is correct so far. In either case: Reinforced sector didnt do any difference towards my DPS. Its 100%, even if it should be 75% or 125%! Possible bug? Or did i miss something, maybe someone else knows. And DPS is actually DP3S

More classes = more premiums = more money (subs will come)

Yes it is free. It takes atleast time to grind through the lines. You just want to skip that process by cherry picking the line which is stronger right now. You took Hakuryu because everyone and their mother was abusing it - and you wanted in on it. That you didnt count on WG nerfing it is only on you.