DFens_666

With old CVs it was definetely easier to deal that damage. Low tier ships often had no AA to speak of, just go in there, drop one, they use DCP, drop more and they burn/flood to death. The best i could do so far with new CVs was ~140k in both T6 CVs in last weeks OP Aegis. More is certainly possible if you learn to get more accurate drops in. But old CVs? 200+k was easy in certain OPs.

Yup, clearly people who have unicum stats and showboat them are only playing TX I have just above 5% of my games in TX, but like 24% in T8... go figure? Will you accept any facts which will lead you to conclude that the problem is with you? Short answer: git gud. Long answer: Use your energy to learn the game rather than to post nonsense in the forums. Or if you want to post in the forums, ask for help on how to get better.

Whatever floats your boat to somehow talk your own stats good (or someone elses stats bad) Doesnt change facts tho... I also wonder about the logic how 3x non-unicum players suddenly get Unicum when they play together They still arent unicum then? And what are unicum stats? Damage farming? Its actually quite hard to get very high damage numbers in a 3x division, because the damage is distributed between those guys. If a ship is showing broadside, everyone might get a piece of that cake. If you play alone, you might get the whole cake for yourself.

What if both teams get a 3x Super unicum Division? Wouldnt it matter, what the other 9 non-division players do? Ofc 3x division CAN have a better WR than solo players - if 3x bad players join in one division, their result will be the opposite however, dragging their teams down. Its impossible to have 100% WR, even with 3x super unicum division. And their impact is so high precisely because random players mostly DONT play as a team DD sits in smoke dakka-dakka, BB humping the border, CV sniping the enemy CV, Cruiser yoloing or whatever... You cant count on random teammates because they choose to play the way they do.

I think you need to go an eye doctor... first, i didnt even WRITE one word and 2nd, my post had as much to do with CVs as me being the anti-CV brigade (so that you understand, that means nothing) You should rather start to think why there is so much whining and flaming going on, but its too hard to think one step forward. Its because the game is unfun for many players right now. That is not limited to people who are playing CVs, alltho i think a 1000% increase in Hightier CV battles within one week somehow is showing a different picture 27.01-02.02 10696 battles http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190202/eu_week/average_class.html 03.02-09.02 102582 battles http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190209/eu_week/average_class.html (if you go back one more week, its still an increase by 400%) http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190126/eu_week/average_class.html

The obvious conclusion would be: because you are saying, he is wrong but that cant be since he is better than many players... that makes him right and you wrong

Shooting down planes doesnt necessarily mean much. 1) you can kill a plane which lost most of his health to your teammates AA, but you got the kill (like getting a shipkill by only dealing like a couple of hundred damage). 2) If the CV is bad, he might not evade your flakbursts. You can track that by the damage you deal to planes (note, continous DPS is NOT shown in that number, only flak damage) 3) If you had a good CV against you, he will evade your flak (f.e. your Montana game), so he might get away in time and not lose planes OR someone else got the planekills. Planekills and damage dealt to planes means very little now, becuase it is not as simple as it was with RTS CVs. Old CV planekills were on or off, either you got a plane, or you didnt, but you also didnt contribute if someone else got that planekill. With new mechanic, there are many factors as i described above. You can get planekills by doing very little, or get no kills by doing much, and that is also influenced by the skilllevel of the CV attacking you.

That litereally doesnt make any sense. How would one get good stats out of playing like that? The only thing he would achieve is getting kills, while having low damage and most likely even a bad WR. If you want to have good stats in every departement, you have to work for it. Precisely because of players who "wanna have fun" good players have to play the way they are playing. I always tried to help my teammates if i think it was worth doing so (like going in 2vs1 stronger/healthier ship). The problem is, your teammate will use that opportunity to run away and hide. Its like "yes, this guy sacrificed himself, better NOT help him so i can stay alive". Happened way too often, so i wont take that risk anymore, unless i know i can trust that person I think bad players are watching too much Flamu, because he says, he is using other teammates as meatshields (which he openly admits) so i guess they try to copy his playstyle by using other players as meatshields... which ofc doesnt work, because they arent good enough to apply the damage needed.

Why do you think, good players are less creative in their actions? Shouldnt they be MORE creative, as they try to get the optimum out of their game? Being good is ofc risk management - i dont deny that. If i want to go for a target, i assess what the outcome might be. Bad players think of the opportunity "hey, i go around the island and torp the crap out of that Cruiser!" If they succeed, its great fun for them, if not, well better luck next time. If a good player is facing the same situation, he will consider how much damage he might receive in return and what the chances are to die or get a tradeoff in the worst case scenario. But isnt planning the best attack also being creative?

You might aswell put those people in 2 categories like these: 1) I play 4 fun, means, idc about tactics or teamplay. I only play for myself - for my own enjoyment. 2) I want to win games, i do so by any means necessary. Dieing is an option if my team gets an advantage from it. Teamplay is highly recommended as it will yield a better chance in winning the game. Thats what you basicly said Because playing to win = accept that its a teamgame. Playing for fun = doesnt matter if i win, if i had fun in the process.

Ye well, thats the problem of low samplesize. Even if you do good, you can still have a majority of games which couldnt be carried. Opposite can be, you did poorly but your team made up for that. Im just about to get my GK WR out of the red, because i had some really questionable games in the beginning, inlcuding a 10 game losing streak. But i also played 3 different builds on that Full Secondaries -> Semi Secondaries -> tank build. Last 2 games with tankbuild, i did less damage, but i won both, and it feels because i could almost ignore fires. I could establish a stronger presence if needed. And if you look at WR, that will be problematic if looking at it in a whole: If 4 DDs are losing on one side, 4 are winning on the other at the same time. And if you look at the people who have a good WR, you need to be sure that they played solo AND have a large samplesize. But i still agree that DDs are totaly in a bad spot right now, and it needs to be solved ASAP. There is no reason to play a DD as a bad Cruiser replacement.

I think the samplesize for that is mostly too low to be conclusive. If you have 10-20 games can be good or bad luck.

Well, they could before? The problem is being spotted 30-45 secs into the game, while you are stil in open water. If they would be spotted 1:30 into the game, like with old CVs, it would be less of an issue. DDs can get to the cap in time, before the CV can spot the, because they have better Air detection. Cruisers need to turn away before, so thats one big issue by supporting your DDs. Worcester and Minotaur are probably the only ones which can attempt to go close. If you have to smoke up halfway, you are still out of AA range to cover your DD. Fighters can be avoided. Saying, your own CV can help is only a bad joke these days. Its utterly useless. Just maneuver around the red circle, while spotting the Cruiser.

Thats a valid point, however, they cant make it there in time Halfway through, they get spotted, if they continue their path towards the cap / island cover, they are in for some serious crap coming their way -> Every BB which is in range. Because all other targets are out of their range, except the DD you want to cover. And shooting a Cruiser is always easier, especially when you know where he wants to go. Tried it myself with a Dallas in T8 MM. I couldnt get to where i wanted to be, because i got permaspotted by planes, which mostly left me no other choice than to back away. The funny thing is, the problem was T8 MM on a T6 map = trident. A T8 map might have actually given me the chance to get where i wanted, because its bigger in size @El2aZeR spot on as always... kinda sad to see, that only smart people seem to understand what you are saying. But why am i wondering about this, we are talking about WoWs playerbase so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What does that have to do with anything? If you can hit 26 torps in one game, they shouldnt hit that hard. Someone else can grab the kill even when you get a permaflooding on them. Best example i could find so far for me:

Maybe you can just force the entire enemy team to the mapborder, then you can get all caps by yourself How to win a match 101: - Pick CV - Get all caps - Win - Profit

I dont have the exact numbers, but i can give you an estimate: I had both Ranger and Hiryu almost stock before the rework. I needed 1,22 million FreeXP get both Midway and Hakuryu. After the rework, i sold all CVs except the T4 ones, and i roughly gained 1,7 millions FreeXP by that. Seems that it was more expensive before than now.

I dont think it shows 31.20, he just did the math. And the math is wrong, as IFHE gets applied BEFORE rounding. So 25.33 *1,3 = 32,92 -> rounding 33 - 1 = 32 mm penetration. SO @Shady_runner it works correctly, if you take IFHE, it will say 32mm

Sure, all im saying is, i rather practice my drops with "easier" targets like the Bots in Operations. Gives me time to learn from where i should start attack runs f.e. Also you have a wider range of AA attacking you, from easy (T4 ships) to harder (T7 ships) Not invalid, but as i mentioned, seeing GZ attack pattern seems rather hard to use compared to others, so there is atleast a possibility for messing up the strike. Didnt want to imply, just wanted to through it out as a possibility. No, then you missunderstood me. I just tried to make a general statement, that someone (not you specifically) might not be able to hit the citadel because they are dropping the wrong spot, and they would simlpy need more practice. I think we can stop going back and forth with this, but this is exactly the point im trying to make. And for me it feels harder to balance like with old RTS CVs. Because getting in 1-2 planes from one old squad resulted in little damage compared to the maximum output. While now, if you get on strike through, it can be decent damage, even more so, because you can attack again within the next 30-45 secs, while old CVs needed more time to get back.

Its something you have to consider when changing ships. If an AA ship was previously almost untouchable by planes, suddenly can get attacked by them, then you are walking a very thin line between dealing little damage and hurting them too much. I even said it earlier in this thread, which is due to being able to skill for AA. It would be easier to balance if those skills wouldnt exist. 1. I do play new CVs - but i dont go to randoms right away and try to learn there unlike other people who then whine on the forums (no im not talking about you). You see, i dont expect to master a new class right away, so i want to "git gud" first. But that doesnt mean, i dont understand the mechanics behind this. You just got told by El2aZeR that GZ AP DBs are more special than the other AP DBs. From the YT vid i saw, it was clear to me aswell, that you should drop through the broadside for a Citadel hit. So it does matter from where you drop. 2. What did i make up actually? 3. I didnt imply that you dont know where the Citadel is. As i didnt see you perform those drops, i cant know where the problem is, but i can extrapolate that using those specific bombers are harder to use. I personaly would like to see, that a difference from -2 doesnt make the AA stronger or weaker. Like, MInotaur AA should be equally strong vs T8 planes as vs T10 planes. There sholdnt be a reason, why AA is even better when the planes are worse. Vice versa, a ship -2 compared to CV should have equally effective AA compared to fighting sametier planes. Would be fair for everyone. About the rest: We just have to agree to disagree i guess. Its just different povs... If i could affect AA with my personal skill, then i would actually agree, because a good player could try to negate that damage with skill. But if you are able to strike every ship, cant you win every 1v1 engagement then? Atleast sooner or later.

I think this build is working aswell http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/0100000001000010010001000000001119 Radar Minotaur build for hunting DDs - got kinda useless with CV rework tho You have to consider the possibility tho. And how likely it is to occur. A BB scoring maxdamage is basicly impossible, unless you are sitting right next to a Yamato full broadside which will die with one salvo. This scenario however does not happen that often. A CV striking a ship happens several times per match. Whether he hits anything, is mostly due to the skill of the CV player, and a little bit on how the target is evading. Actually there is... how can you not see this? I can bomb the Minotaur with my Ryujo aswell and NOT score citadels if i dont target the ships center. I can bomb his bow/aft section and get penetrations. So with practice, you CAN get more citadles on him. But i can see why CVs dont work for you: You dont even consider that the problem could be with you. Its a new class, the only resemblence they have with old CVs is the name, everything else changed, especially how you strike targets. And in general, you do get more citadels with practice also, just not on stationary ships. But since the GZ DB drop seems pretty unique, it seems that it requires practice to get citadels. I saw it right away in the YT vid i saw: Sometimes citadels sometimes not because he got the timing wrong AND the angle. @El2aZeR please help me here, you understand what i mean right? Because we were already talking about Minotaur prior to that. I didnt even pick it. I picked it for 2 reasons: Others (and myself) were talking about it before + i consider it to be one ship which deserves strong AA. What happens if any other T10 Cruiser activates DefAA? You will be back before his DefAA is off Cooldown. I personaly never talked about other Cruisers. I never said every Cruiser should be immune to CVs. I specifically said Minotaur - its like you are trying to prove a point against me. I already admitted that. The only other ship i mentioned was Worcester, because it has stronger AA aswell, atleast from what ive been seeing in port. And when you can strike a ship, you most likely WILL kill it, even if not instantly. If its worth it, probably not, but it can make a difference. Thats why i was talking about 1v1 situations. You tell me: Why should a CV win every 1v1 engagement?

Cleveland is neither a heavy Cruiser, nor does it have smoke. And one of the strongest BBs against fires is Nelson because of his super heal. If you run away with a Nelson from a CL, you are doing it wrong. Usually a BB shouldnt run away from a Cruiser, unless he is sitting behind an island and you cant push his position. Yes ive seen that. But with practice i think you should get citadels with it. And GZ is T8 anyway, we already established that attacking AA ships 2 tiers higher is something you shouldnt do. Take Hakuryu or Midway and try to bomb it to see better results imo. Im perfectly fine if you want to argue about other Cruisers AA. But we are talking about a Minotaur, and i think its balanced by having really good AA. Okto cant be killed by HE spam alone tho, as superstructure will be saturated at some point. And LOOOONG before that happens, Okto will just kill you a couple of times over.

More real than 162k damage from the GK How does the GZ APs circle look like? Ryujo has no issues killing a Mino faster, and i only had 4 planes in my 2nd squad, because i only have 9 planes in my hangar. With a bit better aiming i think you could get everytime 2 Citadels. Nvm, i looked at in on YT... i guess GZ AP bombers need to be used differently than others, so i think its more of a L2P issue than anything else. Because we are talking about 1 or 2 ships out of 250-300 available... Thats why its ok. Okto is immune to HE spam + fires from lowtier Cruisers, as i mentioned in this very thread. Soon, RU BBs will all be immune to Fire. Exceptions can always be there, they arent game breaking.

Even worse if you are a lowtier CV and attacking a group of ships - you shouldnt do that, as we already told you several times. I dont think WG is getting much money out of flag bundels from premium shop... guess thats why they got removed (mostly? Or are they all gone already?). Atleast it gives SOME options to have different builds/options in the game. Would be kinda lame if every ship would be same everytime you see it. I think its good that occasionally see a secondary specced ship - even tho it might be annoying Ye well, what is stupid? You said yourself your planes all die because of multiple stacked AA auras. Wasnt that a stupid move on your part then? So rightfully, your planes all got shot down before you could drop. CV can outplay Mino and Worcester = by spotting them for their team. With RTS CVs you couldnt even spot a minotaur without flying into his AA. Its atleast possible now. If you buff Cruiser armor, they might become easily OP. I know what im talking about when i can rush Montanas with my Hindenburg, even from Unicum clans Cruiser wouldnt need that tactic if there would be less BBs around... so thats the main issue. And WG will never tackle that, because they cant offend their BBaby crowd (too long queue times)