DFens_666

- Fast? Well id say thats relative... 35kts is not something super fast, Venezia is faster, and so are the Frenchies on speedboost. HIV can hunt down DDs because of the speed advantage. Its in the upper quarter i think, but i wouldnt call that especially fast compared to others. - Hydro range? Same as all others, except germans since its their thing. But its still the same as all others. - Every ship can equip range mod Ok, russian DDs cant, and US BBs have a different one in 3rd slot. No, but when you write something which is not correct, then be prepared to get corrected...

That would include, that only good players rant in chat about others - that is not so. Ive seen so many average or below players telling us their story, which had nothing to do what actually happened in game. Like your division cleaned the flank with superior enemy forces, suddenly one guy from the other side starts clicking you "STOP CAMPING" because they dont see any more enemies on that side... well duh, we just killed them all. Thats just one example out of many. Or once i got called "backling sniping BB player" while i was touching the DD INSIDE the cap (!) who threw that at me. They dont have any map awareness, but think they are right anyway. They also lack selfreflection, as its never their fault that cost the game. Seperating playerbase doesnt really solve anything, except that really good players can barely play at all because they are a minority.

Its hard to get the right mix of being aggressive but not too much so you overextend. The average player cant or wont cope with it, so the more logical step for them is to sit behind. But ofc you also get those yolo suicid pushers who then start to flame their team for not helping (more like: not dying with them). You need positioning skills and map awareness - average players lack those abilities. Thats all to it pretty much.

Neptune used to be better imo. Too many people learned to shoot into smoke (also thanks to the marker on the minimap) and overall a more campier meta. Ive been only playing Radar Mino, and it feels less vulnerable than Smoke Mino, if you manage to cover your angles. The biggest upside is, that people shoot your belt all the time. Ive bounced so many Kremlin shots aswell its kinda funny (Kremlins super dispersion works against it if they aim at the wrong section^^). If you sit in your smoke, it gives you a wrong feeling of being "safe". Not to mention, a DD in range will throw torps your way because the smoke just says "Im sitting here". even if you dodge em, if you have to leave your smoke its kinda useless. The problem however, as you rightfully noticed, is the horrible concealment from Neptune. It cant stealth radar the same was as Mino/Edin, alltho the window of being spotted compared to radar range is like couple of hundred meters right? I havent tried Radar Neptune ever, but i guess you need even better positioning compared to Minotaur. Sure you could try it tho, and learn how to bounce incoming shots and what islands work for you as cover. On the plusside: Using your torps seems to work better if you dont sit still in a smoke all the time, since you will get your opportunites more often (alltho less for Neptune, because of the bad concealment. But definetely for Mino)

Well then you just need practice. Thats like an 19~km shot over a mountain. And for lowertiers: It doesnt really matter as much. DDs arent as vulnerable when spotted compared to highertiers. You will realize that, once you get to those tiers

Came to think when i read this, why not bump it a bit? Majority of playerbase is "playing for fun" they dont care if they win (thats their own words!!!) so if they dont care, and people who can bunch up with more guys are more happy, its a win-win situation!

I looked at your stats, and you play a lot of Coop. Bots have aim-assist, they will hit you regardless what speed/angle you are moving. If you dont dodge, they WILL hit you. Ofc if you dodge, they will more likely miss, but dodging at T2-3 DD torp range is almost impossible. But even in randoms, people wont have much issues hitting you at ~6km.

Your stats suggest otherwise? I wouldnt look at WR too much, because most of your CVs have less than 100 games, so you cant really tell how often you were lucky/unlucky with teams.

Agreed. If i can outspot the enemy DD, and my own gunpower is less than his, ill play it safe and spot him for my team so he has to go away. Theoretically he could ofc rush me, but if he shoots i can still smoke up and hope that he stays spotted by me team so i can shoot him aswell. If my DD is suited to fight DDs, and the enemy has no backup, then ofc ill try to surprise rush the other one. But losing health early in the game is something i want to avoid while playing DD, because you never know if you need it later on. Not long ago, played Fletcher on Atlantic and an enemy Mogador tried to get into the B cap with me. He lost 3/4 of his HP trying to stay in, and in the end, he ran to C.

- Lower tier ships gain more if they deal damage to higher tier ones. So the Balti/Cleve dont need that much damage to get that result, even less so if they managed to get their damage on the DDs (which is quite likely seeing that they are radar Cruisers) - Spotting damage doesnt get rewarded much. And 86k is not THAT MUCH. - I think getting a kill is roughly the equivalent of ~15% of the targets HP in XP. - XP is awarded based on % of damage you deal to a target. 10k from a TX DD is basicly worth the same as 50k on a TX BB.

Got Boise not long ago. Imo very strong on T7 and has that special heal. Thats why i got it.

The problem is, if we look at similar skilled players, the outcome is different imo. 2 bad players facing each other, then the Gunboat DD will win, simply because the bad player doesnt recognize how to outplay it (or to not fight it at all). While 2 high skilled players, the Gunboat DD cant really get to the stealthier one. Ive even managed to spot DDs with a small spotting window, but if they shoot you, you can still try shoot back or smoke up and see that he keeps being spotted by one of your teammates, and the help with your guns. IJN gunboats can disengage a bit easier because they have smoke aswell (unlike lets say french or some russians). So how do we conclude this? Guess its how you look at it. Nah KGV/DOY/Nagato/Colorado are covered in 25mm plating. Scharn/Gneisenau/Lyon/Sinop upper bow is 25mm aswell. 5+6 If you put a BB instead of the Shchors position, then the BB can hold a position aswell. A german one even better thanks to Hydro. A DD has to make room for a BB aswell (otherwise it will get spotted), but that doesnt mean, DDs are not anti-BB right? Bigger ships will inevitably push smaller ships away, as they often cant engange them directly. Something like a Hindenburg could push certain BBs away actually, but that also doesnt make it Anti-BB. I guess what im saying: Its not that easy to conclude what is what, especially if we look at certain situations. Maybe it also depends a bit on playstyle. I do fire at DDs all the time aswell, doesnt mean my ship is necessarily suited to do it. But in other ships, ill try to engage/push DDs away, even if they are my "counter". Hey, ive pushed a Benham half across the map in my GK, only taking 3 torps in the process. Or take Missouri as an example: Its kinda Anti-DD. But its not invincible against Torps either.

The actual problem is, that they have limited the amount of lowtier ships compared to hightier ships. Thats why, we have coop games full of bots now. 9vs9 does its own part, but the other is the actual cause for more bots in Coop.

I guess if you count in Puerto Rico, Goliath, Hayate, Paolo Emilio, Slava and Marceau you can get to 41

1. lets just forget it at this point - its no use that we keep throwing things at each other. 4. + 7. Ill combine them, because ill show you the problems with what you said: IJN Gunboat which you describe as Anti-DD. What is their dowside: They are big, clumsy, slow (well Kitakaze not so much) and have rather bad concealment. So how do we rate Anti-DD combat now? Is it skill if you manage to kill a DD because he plays badly? But then again, an enemy skilled DD player will manage to spot the Gunboat first so that his team will force it to retreat. You cant leave skill entirely out of the question. But from the get go, the gunboat needs to overcome the obstacle of being outspotted, even if it has the gunpower + HP to fight enemy DDs. The bigger the skill difference, the easier it is for the gunboat to kill the opponent DD. Similar skill DD players, the one outspotting the other will be able to get the upper hand. So are they truely Anti-DD compared to lets say RN DDs? Which have very good concealment, fast reloading smokes and Hydro? The power of outspotting others. 4 Gunboats vs my Benham. Or lets put it this way: How are Akizuki and co. more anti-DD than german DDs? They have roughly similar concealment, while germans are atleast smaller and more nimble and have Hydro. But german DDs are not Anti-DD in your book, while they even have better tools to fight enemy DDs. IJN Gunboats are so sluggish, they even have a hard time dodging torps! If you rate IJN gunboats Anti-DD, then Germans are even more Anti-DD. Are they strong against Cruisers? No doubt there, but they arent suited to fight them 1v1. They are better off fighting BBs 1v1. Compared to other Gunboat DDs, they can deal much better with BBs. The torps are better, and so are the guns because Alpha > Fire damage. The downside compared to russian/french DDs is, that those can pick fights open water. IJN BBs: Fuso lacks caliber to punish other BBs. Bayern/QE have 381mm guns which can overmatch 25mm armor. Thats already a big downside for Fuso in BB combat. Im not saying, BBs are bad fighting other BBs, but they are almost all equal in fighting Cruisers, and those are always their prime target. Even Yamato should rather shoot a Cruiser instead of a BB, but Yamato has the guns to punish other BBs regardless. There is no difference, if Amagi/NC/Izumo/Iowa are shooting enemy BBs. For Nagato, the big caliber doesnt really change too much. Colorado/Sinop have the same caliber, Gneisenau can overmatch them aswell. If Gneisenau gets close, it eats other BBs alive. KGV lacks caliber, and after the Citadel nerf, id even say its not suited to fight other BBs anymore. RU DDs: As i said, i dont really see them as anti-anything. They are capable of fighting everything pretty much. Kiev showed that in the CB season, as they can demolish same tier cruisers. Probably least suited to fight enemy DDs because of the concealment disadvantage. RU BBs: Maybe... thanks to their dispersion, they can punish everything. Doesnt make them less leathal towards cruisers tho 5. 1vs1 are always iffy to discuss. If i know what to deal with, its easier to counter it. Thats the only salvation in randoms, as its not something you can always predict (even less so for the average player). Shima vs Monty is not something, monty can ever win. It has no means to spot it, while surviving might be possible to a certain degree ofc. And vs a Radar Cruiser, this really depends: DM and Wooster both lack stealth radar capability. In a 1vs1, you can easily work around that as a DD. Shima might not kill them, but catching the Shima might also be an impossible task. Against a Chapa/RN CL this is totaly different, as you cant spot them without being in radar range. 6. Well, that depends again how we measure this. Im pretty sure, a Shchors can beat a BB 1v1 (not all, but some, Sinop is something you probably will not win). Ofc its heavily RNG dependant: BB dispersion on one side, some Fire RNG on the other. In an actual battle, this is entirely different tho, as the BB most likely has not only 1 target to take care off. A CA (lets say Yorck) has no chance against a Shchors in a 1v1 fight, because it lacks DPM. But in battle, Yorck can surprise the Shchors with AP and citadel it easily. So 1v1s never really paint the picture of what is really happening in game. Because Shchors can beat CAs in a 1vs1, doesnt make it a good Cruiser killer. And once again the question: If shchors has no DD spotting for him, how does it fight enemy DDs?

It would be totaly OP for some ships, while being useless for others (like heavy Cruiser). See @Excavatus with his wet fantasy GK survival secondary build

No, thats not it for me. I very much would keep playing WoWs, but its getting worse on every level. Im not fed up with the basic of this game - im fed up what WG made out of it. Give me back WoWs from 2 years ago, id happily play and complain much less

No, because you see, if it wouldnt be as bad, wouldnt we play more than ~800 games per year (assuming we have the time, which i have since im posting here right now instead of playing)? Ofc i cant blame solely CVs for that - that would not be the truth. But CV rework played its own part. Last week played 10 games on an evening because of directives and helping others with directives too. Almost every game had a CV in it. It gets really annoying if they are there all_the_time. Not to mention, having lobotomized teammates, which makes winning actually feel like work Thats what i was talking about in the thread i recently opened: Its crap after crap after crap and it keeps piling up to one big steaming pile of garbage and at some point you cant take it anymore...

I can make it work and it can still bother me Because its bad for the game.

I guess if id see El2azer on the enemy team, i might alt+F4 when playing DD Its either me being useless or him killing me, so why bother? As said before: The only salvation is, that majority of CV players is utter trash... which is pretty bad from any pov.

Ofc i know that, thats why i wrote that in my first post here. If everyone would be able to perform like him, the game would be dead, you couldnt play anymore. As long as even the biggest noob CV will spot you however, as long everyone will hate CVs. Noob CVs that cant hit me dont bother me. But they are still spotting me for their team, which ruins my entire game, as they keep comming... and comming... and comming Well, its not like they have been lying anyway, so meh?

Sounds fine to me

1. We do bring arguements - you just ignore them all the time. If we back them up with facts, you bring your own view as how things are (like the shchors). It doesnt make sense to keep argueing, as you dont accept other views, and now you say, we are the ones not accpeting them... ofc i dont accept them if i know they are wrong 2. So you wanna go 1v1 into a training room and show me how a Shchors (you) will kill a DD (me)? You make your arguements always fit your narrative: Shchors doesnt need armor to fight a DD. Well, bad news for you, games dont consist of 12 DDs. There are usually 5 BBs roaming around. You cant even SPOT the DD on your own for gods sake. Shchors has like 12km detection, you want to spot a DD with 6~km concealment on your own? So you will say "well, DD can spot for the shchors" and we are back to a BB blapping you because you are that much closer to him than all your other ships while having no armor and turn like a brick. Shchors is not Anti-DD. He cant fight DDs on its own (by that logic, everything is anti-everything btw). Anti-DD ships need to be able to spot the DD by themselves, and if they are a DD themselve, they need to be able to outgun it too. If all your DDs are dead, how does a shchors deal with enemy DDs? Simple answer: It doesnt. 4. Did i write that wrong? US CLs: Anti BB / Anti DD when they get Radar US CAs: Anti Cruiser, because their improved pen angles can hurt other Cruisers better. RN CLs dont want to fight US CAs. Also, US CAs have an easier time citadelling german CAs because of the improved pen angles. Think its more clear now. 5. I disagree. While IJN Torpboats are clearly meant to hurt BBs (bad detection but high alpha in return), doesnt mean they are useless against others. In a bad moment, a Cruiser will also take IJN torps and lose up to half its health to 1. I wouldnt call that bad. Also, as @Bear_Necessities wrote, their concealment is among the best. While they often cant pick a 1v1 fight, they can outspot the enemy DD and rely on their team to hurt the DD. If the enemy DD is hurt, they can finish them thanks to their high alpha HE. Btw, try shooting AP with your german DDs more often, as it really packs a punch vs other DDs. How does that make sense? Lets go with Shchors here. If you dont have IFHE, your penetration is not enough to pen 25mm plating, which equals same BB armor. But Cruisers dont have that armor, so it can still penetrate Cruisers and DDs, but not BBs. BBs have the thickest armor, so in order to penetrate it, you will inevitably penetrate all Cruisers and DDs (well except some russian ships). Also, BB citadel has the best protection, while Cruisers often can citadel each other, they cant Citadel BBs. How good you personaly are (being able to hit something) is irrelevant on how a ship is designed. A DM is always anti-DD because it has radar (well, some special specimens might run spotter plane, those dont count obviously) regardless if that DM player is actually able to hit that DD. See, the DD player cant know that in advance. But he has to react to that DM being on the enemy team. I think the problem here is, that you have a totaly different view what being "Anti-XX" means. First you need to define, what the strength of a class or ship is. Then you need to look for something, which is able to negate that strength. DD strength: Concealment Counter to that strength: Radar (one example, obvious CVs can do the same)

Just took out Hosho for 2 games, remember: HoShO iS fIxEd!!! Its just dumb as crap. Btw, the Isokaze kills were Drop -> Kill -> start next drop -> next kill within like 15 seconds. One lie following the next, what else is new?