DFens_666

That was possible in RTS CV times, and CVs still managed pretty well back then? - A lot of Ships cant properly damage TX CVs, especially at usual engagement ranges. Angled Midway is one of the toughest ships in the game. - RN CLs struggle with CVs on other tiers aswell - CVs can outrun most ships. Even more so taking into account, that CV doesnt have to dodge incoming attacks while other ships have to do just that. - Basicly all BBs and many Cruisers cant fight DDs on their own - why should CVs be allowed to attack/kill EVERY ship in the game? Every other class has limitations in what they can attack, be it range as the ultimate limitation - CVs have no limitations, not even range will stop them.

Most people are just not capable of doing it all the time - doesnt mean its only about luck.

Last couple of days, ive played on a new account in protected MM. Waiting time was sometimes ~1:30, and usually its 3players per side, only once so far i had 5 players/team. So they hardly matter at all. CV spam would have made a better answer Lowtier 1year ago Lowtier last week If anything, its more than before, and id still account that to Corona. Those are only players with >10 battles tho, as the site didnt used to track both. Nowadays they do, but have to compare the same setting. I have a feeling, that there are more people who play a shitload of games, while the majority only plays a few games. F.e. =>10 battles played All players So if we substract those numbers, we get 65466 players playing 360611 battles, but maximum 9 battles in that class, averaging 5,5 battles. There seem to be a lot of people, who only play 1 game. If we go back to the 10 or more battles played, its 32% of the players account for 72,6% of the battles played. I even managed to pick the class, which shows that effect the least. CVs/DDs/Cruisers are even worse off: DD: 23% of the players account for 65% of the battles CV: 12,5% of the players account for 48% of the battles Cruiser: 30,6% of the players account for 72% of the battles https://wows-numbers.com/de/ranking/?order=battles__desc lets face it: Most of them could actually be bots, played up to 1000 games in 21 days, always with deep red WR and PR even after 30k games.

Nah, that was only for AA back in the days. Selecting a target for secondaries never did anything, except prioritizing a target if possible.

Thats why, WG fills lowtiers with bots, because we have too many players? The site only tells, how many people are online - im also online almost every day (daily login bonus) but i dont play every day. Yeah, Corona also bumped up the numbers

No, people get "flamed" (havent seen any flame in this thread), because they either - proclaim, that secondary build is stronger than one without, which depends on the meta. Currently its not. - demand, that secondary builds need to be stronger than other builds. Even if i would want secondaries to be better aswell, you cant overbuff them. Secondary build needs to be situational. I think german BBs already got what they needed, by not needing IFHE anymore. That freed up points to either get CE or FP. I personaly would like for AFT/BFT to get reworked entirely. 3 different skills, 1 for AA, 1 for Secondaries and 1 for main battery, giving the benefits of both (maybe not the same amount, but that could be done with testing).

I got GK like almost 2 years ago, and even then i realized, tankbuild is easier/better for me. Can only be worse these days. But unless you go full ham on secondaries, you actually can use FP. Is it enough? Cant tell, maybe it works like that. You wont have BFT, but imo that was always "overkill" in my book, as you give up SI for it. Guess it makes sense if you always die before you can use all heals lol.... Or maybe take CE? But concealment doesnt really help once you are close, and FP helps always. In the end, i dont think WG wants secondaries to be the more viable build. Its a thin line that they can somewhat work, while not being straightup better than a tankbuild.

Kinda depends what a full secondary build is? I mean, you could obviously make a full tank build aswell, by not picking AR/EM but HA/JOAT instead. And that makes no sense imo. Same is by putting too much into secondaries (BFT/DE??) while ignoring everything else for it. T7-8 is the sweetspot for secondaries imo, alltho T7 might have changed, because its lowtier so often these days. And the secondary range is not good enough for that. T8 secondary ships became better due to that, as they are much more effective when toptier on smaller maps.

If you would give GK 12,3km concealment with that secondary power, it would be totaly OP...

True, ive probably got some (some more) karma due to that. On the other hand, ive lost karma for carrying, so i think it evens out.

I think you only get +karma if you play well and carry your team to victory. So first you play well, then you get karma. Not the other way around?

They cant angle against Yamato shells. Same as you cant angle against their HE, but your AP does more damage. If they kite, they give up map control. Take objective and move away, or move behind island. You dont want to push them, but usually you dont have to, because you can just wipe the floor with the enemy team, who have 2 BBs being useless sitting in their spawn. Dodging shells from 20km (where they usually sit) should not be a big problem, especially Thunderer which is rather accurate and has only 8 shells. If i play Thunderer, Yamato + sisters are the ones i DONT want to have on my flank. They effectively make it so much harder to be aggressive, as they can just whack you for 10+k fairly easily. 1+3 together doesnt really make sense And shooting HE in a Yamato against RN BBs is the worst thing you can do. Conqueror is one of the BBs, which is most resilient to HE, because of the disgusting superheal. Fires are fully repairable and it heals 75% of HE pen damage aswell, coupled with a heal that almost prints half a ship.

Shoot them for free damage? Basicly every other BB is worse off (well except shiki and Musashi) since they cant even overmatch their 32mm of armor, which Yamashisashi ()can.

All it does, that it will increase skillgap even further.. like we need that one. And lets not forget, the concealment buff isnt the only thing, i doubt they will go through with it, but not with the 20 sec AA-bloom (or something else). DDs with AA on = nothing changes DDs forget their AA on (happens all the time) = get shafted harder, because they wont fade out of vision. Especially those with >5km AA range had a chance to go dark and taking a guess from >5km is harder, than doing it from ~3km, because the area the DD can move in is simply bigger DDs effectively cant use their AA when the CV is able to drop them. Right now, switching AA on to shoot down fighter planes can make sense at times. But after the change, you might be spotted for 20 sec (+ the time you need to kill those fighters in the first place), giving the CV enough time to attack you.

The fire duration reduction is applied multiplicatively - not additively. So if you have anti-fire flag + DCP mod in 4th slot, you burn for 40,8 sec instead of 60. If you add BoS now, it will be reduced to 34,7 sec. Massa has 66,300 HP. 1 fire burning for 40,8 sec removes 8115 HP. 1 fire burning for 34,7 sec removes 6901 HP. Difference is 1214 HP. One heal for Massa will give you 11138HP (with healing flag). Maximum amount of damage Massa can receive with 5 heals using India Delta is 121992. One heal less and it drops to 110853. So basicly, 1 extra heal is worth 7,6 full duration fires - this doesnt happen, and 7,6 full duration fires already take more health than you could ever heal (ignoring the HE alpha) If you can make use of that heal, it will always be better, especially since that heal also works on every other type of damage you receive.

Even i can do that, and i have like 1% of the experience @El2aZeR has in CVs... but that has nothing to do with CVs in the first place. Its just simple math/logic. If at some point i spot the DD, he cant just vanish into thin air when planes turn around. He can only slow down/turn in to make that prediction less optimal.

To that id like to add: being greedy is the biggest scourge

Its actually 10km

How about no?

Personal preference and skill level. Radar Edinburgh needs more skill, but has more game impact in return, basicly a high risk = high reward style. Can always just try both and see which one you like more.

With - did that test prior to the IFHE rework. Thats also the reason why i took a Colorado as test, if i would have taken a T8+ BB, i couldnt tell if the secondaries would have landed in the citadel belt or upper belt. They would have shattered both places. Did you get more fires without manual sec? Or did the secondaries hit more unsaturated areas? Taking fires out of the equation is always hard, as its just about RNG/luck. But normaly you should assume, more hits = more fires.

I get his reasoning, because i had the same thought. But thats why i tested it, and even at really close combat, your shells wont all shatter on the citadel belt. Not to mention, at that range you need to kill that enemy with your mainguns anyway. The part about secondaries not shooting on both sides... yeah, ive numerous times said, that it should get changed aswell. Its pretty dumb, however, pushing into a crossfire isnt the smartest thing to do in the first place. here my tests if you wanna have a look, first one is without Manual sec I gave up after 3 minutes of firing at the Algerie Now with manual sec, Algerie dead before the 2 minute mark Now with a BB So the manual sec are ~20 sec faster even with worse fire luck - 17k vs 22k on the one getting shot at without manual sec. Even at 5km range, the secondaries dont spray enough to even hit the Bow/stern section, so you basicly wont get any more fires on broadside targets. Also you dont shatter on the belt. Meanwhile, with manual sec you have almost 50% more hits in less time (95 @ 2:00 vs 138 @ 1:40). Flamus idea sounds good in theory, but then again, its only theory... practical use of manual secondaries is proven - atleast for me. Everyone is free to do as they please ofc, but i dont see a reason not to take manual sec. A buff/change to the skill itself would be welcome tho.

Only for people who dont care about balance... One of the nerfs which was totaly uncalled for tho, was Hindenburg nerf... And the result was, a better Hindenburg than before after they realized what they did Henri IV and Venezia nerfs were totaly acceptable, and necessary for game balance.

Venezia is/was overperforming in random battles - thats why it gets nerfed. People think, it gets nerfed because of CBs. Venezia basicly outdamaged sametier BBs, while having the best survivability ontop of it. And it doesnt even have HE, which makes the damage more useful than from other Cruisers. I think it had like 35-40% more damage than Mino - a ship which also has no HE. The avg damage already dropped now after the first nerfs. Also this: Maybe you can go for Goliath? Certainly a ship/line which might get buffed so people will grind it. Id definetely argue, that French CAs got buffed because noone played them. Then they overbuffed them because WG is speshuul. Could aswell happen to RN CAs...

Massa without CE has 14,4km detection, and with CE its 13km. Secondary range is 11,3km max. So there will always be a window where your secondaries wont shoot. Ive tried both, and found CE to be pretty much useless for Massa. As i said, in early game there is a slight advantage but only if you are lowtier basicly. Because some TX games, you simply will have a hard time getting close enough, but there the better concealment wont help you much either, since you will get farmed too easily regardless. You need islands to get close enough and not get farmed in between, possibly even making the enemies run away before you enter secondary range. I prefer FP there, since you will have a much lower risk of burning in 2 places quickly. Ive tried a lot of stuff with Massa, and on average i had the best results with Manual Sec/AFT/IFHE. However, i dropped IFHE after the rework for FP. Havent really played after the change tho. I had CE in my first Massa build, but it just didnt feel useful to me.