DFens_666

This doesnt make sense, since Kremlin exists seperately from Nevsky and Petro. You are saying, Kremlin shits on Venezia while being pratically immune, yet people would pick Venezia because reason. Getting caught up in conflicting arguements only to not admit, that its CVs causing Venezia spam...

Imagine we would have 5 CVs per side Or only 1 BB... poor BB me thinks

You dont want ships that can cope with something, you want ships that are better than the other lineup, considering the skill of the players. So you might end up with the same lineup, unless any other lineup is better under certain circumstances. Once CVs were added, this wasnt the case anymore. First people took all Stalingrads, because despite being easily citadelled, its still a strong longrange Cruiser. Henri and Hindenburg can deal with Stalingrad, thus a pure Stalingrad meta was never an issue, as it was easily countered by Henris and Hindenburgs. But with CVs, those 2 are essentially useless and can easily be killed and permaspotted by CV. So Venezia entered the playingfield. It suddenly had an option to survive against CVs AND get in and out of caps (smoke). SAP, used at a certain range, will also dramatically increase in damage, as it can pen the deck. So everyone being forced to sit back, Venezia was the perfect tool to deal with CVs and Stalingrad at the same time. Using Stalingrads was still ok, as 23km crossfire with good AP + Radar is a strong combo nonetheless. Venezia was also very easy to use against CVs even if you werent a topclan player. This forced a lot of other clans into using Venezia aswell, simply because you would lose against other clans, despite being more skilled than they are. If you wanted to compete on the same level as before, you got forced into Venezia spam, atleast if you started early in the season and planned to go Storm or higher. And Venezia deserved a nerf purely from random point of view - same as Kleber. There was no CV+Kleber meta. Kleber was before CVs got added to CBs. And Venezia will still be the go to pick, regardless of the nerfs. Alltho since the next season has a different setting (cyclone possibility) it depends id say. Maybe Stalingrads will be more succesfull again, especially since there will be atleast one BB around, and being inside 14km aint that great for Venezia.

Yes, please buff Marblehead, no objection from my side But seriously, i wouldnt compare those 2. Marblehead or Omaha class in general are glass cannons, they have no armor, but their firepower is very good and they are rather nimble (ofc russian bias is just a bit more nimble than the capitalist pigs ) How does Blyska fare amongst the other DDs? Id just say, it lost its role along the line, compared to back in the days when we had fewer DDs. Compare it to Vauquelin. - Essentially worse guns, 2 more but slower reload and no MBRB, less AP pen, less HE/AP damage, only better ballistics - Worse torps, slower, 1 launcher less, same range with a bit better reload. - Better turning circle but worse rudder shift and slower with speedboost, tho faster without it. - Worse detection and 2600 lower HP - But has smoke so essentially, you are worse in everything, and you get smoke to compensate for it. Sure "nice" against CVs, but a defensive used smoke wont be available to use it offensively, thus it makes no difference in your fighting capability. Sure one might say, French DDs are too strong, but they are kinda like Omaha: High skill floor, strong if played correctly. Even if played badly, Vauquelin might be better, as long as you dont need a smoke to survive.

Its only forbidden when they are in opposite teams and rig the match (telling each other where ships are, not shooting each other, or ramming each other to safe a star).

Depends how lucky you are with the teams yesterday 1w 4l simply not possible to carry those. today 3/3 wins, piece of cake, almost impossible to fail those. You might only win more if you play enough games to statistically get even with having bad players on either team. If you play a couple of games, you might end up with the bigger potatoes and lose them all regardless of what you play.

horrible... also back in RTS days, i managed to get into T7 MM with Langley

Except they cant even outspot any of those. Venezia is much weaker at 10km because it cant get deckpens on ships. So if you are fully bow-on to a Venezia, you wont receive much damage, and DM shoots 3-4x as often, being able to pen Venezia anywhere. If Venezia decides to use all guns, DM can even use AP. Not a big problem at 10km for a DM.

No. Because if there would have been no CV, you could have countered a Venezia setup with other ships. But because of a CV, the counter for Venezias just got assraped by CV spotting and Venezias shooting from 20km, while all others have to move closer. If you change CV to DD spotting, DD gets killed because his backup is hugging the mapborder, and then Venezias are blind. And if you get closer to a Venezia, its not that big of a problem anymore. And the Season started with CV + tons of Stalingrads. But Venezia deals nicely vs Stalingrad in longrange slugfest with deckpens scording >10k salvos without much issue. Stalingrad simply doesnt have the HE DPM to compare to that.

I think this picture shows how WG sees CVs. Even bots run to the corner, perfectly angled, so they dont get citadelled or even die, because you reach 1000 points before you kill them. While other Bots will just show broadside to get citadelled because why not. Or this The Bot pommern didnt even torp our human CV I wonder why Probably hardcoded to not use torps on a CV or something, wouldnt surprise me one bit. I guess having the option for vigilance buffed hydro is not good enough to dodge torps?

They want to create their own echochambers, like twitter, so they are safe from all heretics who dont believe the same thing they do. He would probably complain about anything that he can find. Like 1 guy has more WR in T1 ships *UNBALANCED* I think quitting the game would be a better option for you at this point. We just came to terms how MM works - and you dont. And WG said 100 times that it will stay like this.

You dont. They are only specialized to a premium ship if they came with said ship.

And probably a chatban incomming because it had to come out. Also he admitted, CVs are griefing but thats ok i guess btw his team lost, because he ignored a shima sneaking up on him and torped him, and that felt really nice

Great, now you spoiled the 2021 collab

HF 3 of us were defending the other flank against the entire enemy team. But our team just sat behind islands doing nothing. reversed flat broadside infront of the Thunderer Hydros torps - TAKES 2!!! Also: Shot HE into Mino broadside (the one that torped him) Daring smokes himself up against Z - gets raped ofc. Nevsky 7km behind at the island? Pops hydro, but not radar. The Z then went on to carry their side to victory. My DD - Enemy DD

Smolensk shooting from 18,6km - complains about camping

I seriously dont understand the playerbase any longer. First day, they were all <50% players aswell, but somehow they still played the game. They atleast shot something that was spotted. Yesterday? Holy crap, its like someone turned a switch off in their brains, but only for my teammates.

FTFY srsly, happens. Basicly 20km to every enemy at all times, still manages to be first, dont ask me how. Last one alive and camps at every island. Must be because once its 5v2, enemies get sloppy and they let themselves get killed for a bit more damage. Literally 42% players who ruin the game. Also I feel like deinstall now Ive lost games, because enemy 45% players played like Superunicums - NO JOKE! Meanwhile, my players park broadside with Conquerors in the middle of the map, because why not

Since CVs are an ongoing issue, this topic might be something which has been somewhat neglected, or atleast gets swept under the rug by using arguements like "bad players kill themselves anyway". And since this it not a pure topic about CVs, but to compare CVs to other ships, it warrents a thread and not getting dumped into the CV abyss thread. Ill just write up some stuff the way i see it, others can add and discuss how they see it, maybe i forget something. 1. How does a good player exert influence in a CV? Its undeniable, that a CV has the power to pick any target at will, since his reach spans from one corner to the other, as he has no maximum reach. A good CV player will prioritize the correct target in order to enhance his winning chance. So usually that means, get rid of DDs first, regardless of the skill level of those DDs. A dead ship will always grant points, which also help to win the game, so it doesnt matter if he kills a 40% or 60% DD player. A good CV player can kill or subsequentially can get several DDs killed within a few minutes of the game, atleast 1 DD can be killed before any other surface ship is in the position to actually be a meaningful threat to any of your own ships. Depending how the game unfolds, he can then look for other targets which need to be killed, or are easy to kill. So he understands what to do, and when to do it. Any playmaking from a surface ship will be seen as immediate danger to his victory, and its possible for him to deny that before it goes through, either by spotting or killing the target or a combination of both. 2. How does it change when considering surface ships? Well, surface ships are limited by what they can attack, roughly talking 10-30km, alltho a BB shooting 30km can rarely exert much influence over any target ship, and even a perfect prediction might result in meaningless damage. He might realize, that something needs to be done on the other flank where he is not, but is essentially handcuffed by not being able to shoot there, or move over fast enough to change it. On the other hand, one BB in a strategic position can influence many enemy ships at the same time, by being able to punish a broadside. Equal examples can be used for DDs and Cruisers too ofc. 3. Ok, but how does it look for badly played CVs? They dont necessarily understand the tactical aspect of picking correct targets. However they are still able to exert influence over any other ship on the map, because of the way CVs can operate. You might be sitting in spawn, but that CV just laid his eyes upon you for no specific reason, so he can alter the way you play, by constantly harassing you. In essence, 1 CV in a game will permanently change any other ships way of play, regardless of his own or the others skill level. And since there is no boundaries to what the CV can attack, any CV alters everyones style of play permanently, just because he can choose to do something else 30 secs later when he picks a new squadron. Basicly irrationallity is also a way of influence. 4. And other ships? A couple examples: - A BB is sitting in his spawn, shooting from maxrange. His actions are most of the time irrelevant for any other ship on the map, so he exerts very little influence, if any, over any other ship. And yet there are some, which actually can do it: those that have strong HE shells, namely RN BBs. At the same time, they are not a threat to any ship. A DD wont be bothered much, same as a Cruiser. He most likely wont hit the DD in the first place, and a Cruiser can dodge his shells, but getting hit by a HE shell is hardly a lot of damage, compared to an AP salvo. So that leaves other BBs, and i think this is true. Having an enemy Conq or Thunderer in his spawn exerts influence on how you have to play your own BB. You can hardly punish him harder, than he can punish your ship. But avoiding him is still an option. - A DD yoloing into the cap is hardly worth any mention. Yet, even a very badly played DD can exert some influence over other ships, even when played by better players. Like he is overly aggressive, that he will spot the DD or a Cruiser in a bad moment, something which you might not expect. The result is him dying, but you in a DD might lose half your health or one of your torptubes. As a Cruiser, you might receive a citadel, crippling you for the rest of the game. There are ofc many more misplays by badly played ships, and i dont want to write all of them down. And some of those actions will influence your game regardless of how good a player you are. And here is my conclusion: - The influence exerted by a CV regardless of his skill is disproportionate to any other ship in the game. - A badly played CV will not stop influencing other ships, unless he dies or the game ends. So the timespan of his influence is also disproportionally longer than for surface ships. A badly played DD can influence 1 other ship before he dies, and then its over. Not for a CV, he wont die, he will influence any other target on the map. How to fix this? There can be no fix, unless WG understands this, atleast thats how i see it.

I dont know what to say to this, because you write one thing, but your conclusion is the opposite, like "DDs are the most influential class, but a CV killing DDs doesnt have more influence despite being able to kill DDs 2 mins into the game" And the highest solo WR tend to be CV players. Then please explain, why DDs have the lowest average damage

WG also nerfed XP gain for CVs at some point. We dont know how XP is gathered/calculated, and CVs might receive artificially less XP for the same damage to a ship than any other ship, which makes it look more balanced. In the end however, it boils down to: WE dont know, so this cant be used as an arguement. Whenever they look for new things to "balance" CVs i get the feeling, that they actually dont know how it works. Otherwise they would have figured it out, or if they wouldnt care they could just tell us to shut up.

You cant blame those 2, because CVs caused the issue. Alltho venezia got nerfed and rightfully so. Without CVs, there was much more diversity. You could bring DDs, DM, Henri, Hindenburg, Minotaur... I think adding CVs caused much more stale setups down the leagues, because more clans got forced into bringing Venezias. Because no matter how well you played your ship, Venezia was still the better pick.

Should he expect to be targeted by HE bombs, if (just guessing) >90% of the CV players dont attack DDs with them? I think ive seen more CVs attack DDs with AP bombs than with HE bombs Atleast lately, it was rather common in the beginning. Pretty much what i just wrote in the topic i just opened: Doesnt matter what the CV does, you have to alter your game 100% all the time because you can never know what he is doing. I assume once he realized that erazer actually attacks him, that it was too late to do anything, and getting stripped half your health with one drop it was GG and he could just roll over and die to make it end faster.

I played during the day and evening. Overall, the teams looked worse during the day (majority <50%) but in the evening, i had a team with almost all >50% but they played worse than the others I assume, those >50% players dont play much TX and are thus just worse players overall. I had one 65% and one 60% player on the enemy team in 4 games.

Because the DD doesnt play 1v1 when a CV attacks him. Whether the CV plays a 1v1 in training room or 12v12 random game doesnt actually matter much. In a 1v1 there are no other ships attacking the DD because... there are none. While in a random game, there are 11 potential other ships shooting the DD while the CV is spotting/attacking him. So the circumstances are entirely different. In a 1v1, the DD can sit in his smoke without being radared, while this might happen in a random battle. But at the same time, the CV can also just sit over the smoke since there is only 1 target to attack, while in a random battle, he can choose 11 other targets till the smoke runs out.