DFens_666

Meh, not like i actually bought the doubloons i used Probably explains the bad result aswell If id buy them, i wouldnt do it. Since i dont need them for anything, i thought ill just check what happens. Was hoping for SOME variety atleast...

Ouch! Thats really sad...

Do they ever lose?

One of my rare Benham games... and one where i didnt have to fight with DDs all the time!

French Cruisers have layered armor, Henri has 140mm IIRC inside. If you remove most armor except the outer layer and look from the inside, you can see that. WIthout that, it would be kinda OP as BBs would always overpen it I dont see a difference to other Openwater CAs like Hindi and Zao. Venezia it depends, as you can take a bigger risk and close in on the cap to help kill a DD, but you still need someone to spot that DD in the first place.

I just realized, that they removed that Bug or intentional? @MrConway @Crysantos @YabbaCoe If unclear what i mean: When you hoover over the "others" line, it shows nothing. When you hoover over the "fires" line, it shows the text in the screenshot. It used to show Ship A x fires / damage Ship b x fires / damage Had to dig deep in my archives to find an old version to show how it used to look

Yes i know i know, CV thread, but thats just a dump for complains There might be hope someone from WG sees this, and could be interested (yes, im dreaming again ) Back to the idea: What is one big difference when it comes to CVs and other surface ships, or more precise guns and planes? Guns get more inaccurate the further you are away from a target. So essentially, the damage is scaled down the longer the distance is, influenced by dispersion and armor. Dispersion can influence from 0 to max damage, alltho the latter is ofc highly unlikely. Armor can even make a very good salvo bad, as it might shatter on the thick armor. Planes? dont have that. They fly from one corner to the other and can inflict maxdamage without too many issues, atleast not much outside of the CVs influence, except a bit RNG with drops. So my idea would be, to scale the damage down based on distance between hull <-> target. Thats kinda what normal ships have aswell, just in a different way. And since they are inherintly different, having different mechanics for balancing might be necessary. Ill just use some values to make it clear. Also you need a cap on both ends, f.e. within x km you deal full damage, and over y km you will not lose more damage. F.e. for every km further apart, you could lose 7% damage, starting after 10km. If you go even further apart damage could be capped at 33%. Here leet-paintskills to showcase what i mean There are many benefits to this imo: - CVs taking more active roles, trying to go closer will deal more damage than a CV, which reverses into the mapborder - Blapping a ship at start would become harder or outright impossible. 10k hits on DDs would result in ~3.3k, which would make it easier for DDs, or any class for that matter. - Could make CVs less interesting for CBs. - Killing off weak ships further to the back becomes harder / less useful than attacking ships closer to you. - Obviously WG will never change spotting mechanics, so lowering damage without actually touching the alpha damage could be a way to make a difference. Just some general things: - Dont get focused on the values - i just used them as examples. If you like the idea, but not the values, it doesnt help saying "BUT only 33% is WAAAY too low". - T4 is not equal to T10. Hightier maps are bigger, so for lowtiers you cant use same values as for T10. - CV spawns could be moved further back, so they could choose which way to go, while giving the surface ships a bigger buffer to approach caps. (does anyone know what distance CVs spawn from caps / enemy ships roughly? obviously there is a difference in maps like Tears of the Desert is furthest apart) - Might need some other tweaks here and there ofc.

Because other ideas are getting blocked from vodka-infused brain Maybe that crap -> wall stuff works with WG too, if we dump all ideas out, one might stick

The first T10 CB season with CVs, Stalingrad got mostly replaced by Venezias. Russian Cruisers have certain advantages in CBs, cant deny those. Why didnt teams consist of 5 Stalingrads before? Because they would fall to Hindenburgs or Henris. But having a couple of Stalingrads with a 1 BB limit is a good deal. You get extremely punchy guns on a tanky platform combined with Radar. Petro is the little brother, which has even better redeeming features for trading a bit of that gunpower. Which you hardly need because the majority of ships are Cruisers, and you can citadel those anyway. And before the CV season, most of the times teams played with 2 DDs. Only with CVs, they got reduced to 1 or even 0. T6 season you saw hardly more than 1 DD ever. Same this season, only some Hallands here and there.

Ofc not the enemy ship, but if i choose to attack that ship which creates a crossfire. Its the same decision that the CV has to make: Do i fly longer to kill that ship, or do i attack the ship closer to me? Killing a ship is obviously good as it generates points. But what if you are a DD and you had a DD sneak up behind your lines? Do you go and hunt it for a couple of minutes so it wont devstrike your BBs from behind? Its the same thing, only a CV needs much less time without taking any risks. You know, the DD engaging the other DD still takes a risk even if he might be in the superior ship. Can still take an unfortunate torp or something. At best, you "wasted" 30 secs with your CV, unless you can engage another target somewhere close. 2nd part: That would only hold true, if they would be limited by engaging a group of ships. Currently, they are not. So i dont see why they should be good at everything? So are many other things, so why does it matter now? Ofc you could give planes fuel to limit their range. That eventually might lead to you not being able to attack the ship at all, cant see how that would be better? Other ships deal with the same issues. You are trying to shoot a BB slipping out of your range, you might be unlucky and nothing hits. Or you shoot a ship which has a few k HP and you expect it to die from your BB salvo, but dispersion says no. Again, CVs are much less effected by these things. An isolated and weak ship is already well... weak? So i dont think it shouldnt be an issue to know, if you can kill that ship or not. Same logic could be applied now, where for some reason the little RNG CVs have actually says no and you dont get that citadel from AP bombers.

Petro is idiot proof and seems to be less vulnerable to Ap rockets because its sitting so low in the water. But CVs essentially remove any other setup, because it would kill them faster than they kill a petro. Even Salem deals well against a Petro despite being able to tank its HE shells. But Salem doesnt really do too well against CVs. Also playing Salem requires more skill than petro, so again, Petro is just the save option, all things considered, CVs being one of those.

Yet any other ship having to make such a detour would take itself out of the game. What do you do with a DD flanking around you, and you are in a ship to stop this? If you can, hunt the DD and kill it, which takes several minutes till you are back in the fight again. But for CVs, who have precision tools to make this work, its apparently unacceptable to make it harder to pull it off.

where is the difference to now? Also i dont think DDs usually are that close to CVs

If you claim that happens on a somewhat regular basis, than thats extremely exaggerated. Sure ive seen it, but more often ive seen those divions actually be put into seperate teams. It even happened accidently to me ones, when another div from our clan was also plaiyng and we ended up in the same team. Ive once seen 8 or 9 players from one clan ending up in the enemy team... they sucked. Infact i believe, most players who deliberately try this clan stacking are bad players. For good players, this is just very boring and provides no challenge.

Yeah, i dont understand why they dont even want to try this... Or basicly any form of minimap only spotting. THey once said "people wouldnt understand that". Most of the average players dont use the minimap anyway. And i think those that do, will understand when a ship doesnt appear on the screen when its spotted on the minimap. Or what are they doing in a cyclone? Drop from their chairs into fetal position because ship doesnt appear?! its the same thing, but apparently, for CVs its different

Same can be said (and is even more true) for steel ships like Bourgogne and Shikishima. I assume, Slava fits that aswell, while its not so limited access as the others, its stil easier to achieve for better, longterm players who can invest freeXP to skip the grind. If you would give a ship like Bourgogne to everyone, id think it will drop towards the lower end. Has no armor and no HP, speedboost is a recipe for desaster for bad players (because it gets them into problems way faster) and they cant use MBRB properly. Btw, if the quarterly numbers are lower than the numbers from last week, we can assume that MvR is actually GAINING damage, so people are getting better at it. And whats the counterplay? Angle against rockets, so the BB gets a free shot at the citadel? It wont show up at damage for MvR, yet its undeniably his "fault" that the damage was inflicted. - Either MvR deals the damage himself - A BB causes the damage because MvR exists Both is incredibly frustrating.

Must be a different one than mine, because Top 25 ships by spotting damage. First DD is on 8, which is so limited you might aswell ignore it. There are only 530 on EU server, which is less than FDRs. T8 CVs comfortably top T10 DDs in spotting damage. In the top 20 ships, there are only 5 DDs, and 15 CVs. Every class complains about CVs. Thats the difference. Top 20 techtree ships by average damage. They are definetely on par with BBs, probably better. Most Cruisers also rely on firedamage to some degree, which lowers their effective damage. MvR basicly wont cause much DoTs, still its ahead of Conqueror, which is a notorious HE spammer with inflated, useless damage. On T8, CVs (techtree ones) are together with the lower end BBs, but still ahead of all Cruisers.

How many really good CV players are there? Few hundred? Even if they would stop playing as a result of lowering game impact, they surely would not matter to WG. When WG buffed AA, did @El2aZeR stop playing? No, i dont think so. It was average/bad players, who suddenly couldnt get anything done anymore. I agree, if you lower game impact you will eventually lose a certain amount of CV players, but they might only play CVs because they feel the need to play it to not get constantly sh*t on by other CVs. At the same time, you might encourage more bad players to play CVs, who currently are incapable of getting anything done because they die to flak. Let CVs be the noob-class, where the lowskill players can derp around without interfering too much with other players. If buffing AA makes those people quit, going the opposite direction could solve the problem.

CM is straightup OP in my book. St louis is slightly worse, as its essentially the same ship but a tier higher (with heal). Henri has bigger caliber guns which are lethal against RN CLs, Smolensk and Colbert. Also with the speedboost, you can rush down DDs and MBRB is awesome. I didnt like Algerie either, but after that they are great.

Thats why, the only possible way to not make CV numbers plummet is to make them as easy as possible to play, while reducing the game impact aswell. Give them the illusion that they can do something, while in reality it makes little to no difference. You cant have a high impact class like CVs and make them so easy to play. Imagine if DDs would be as easy to play as CVs. Like, DDs cant engage other DDs, to dodge radar just wiggle around and make it easier to hit torps. Then lets scale the damage so they roughly have the same as CVs now. I can already see the forum flooded with hate threads

Interestingly, this has less to do with Missouri or credit income, than that Missouri was the first Freemium they released. If it would have been Musashi, i think id have played Musashi for that amount of games. Actually i even didnt get Musashi right away, because i was hesitent to get it since i already had Missouri In the last 2 years, i have played 4 games in Missouri But BBs tend to gain a bigger advantage from premium DCP and even heal than a Cruiser running premium Hydro/DefAA/Radar. When you die too early, it doesnt matter if you have 3 or 4 charges of Radar. You cant use them anyway. But a BB will undoubtedly survive longer if he can use DCP more often. And while a lot BBs wont ever use all heals, it still reduced the cooldown time, so again, they survive longer. For Cruisers this mattered less. Firstly, because most of them dont have heal to begin with. And second, if you get blapped, having a heal ready doesnt really help. Sure they also survive a little longer, but its less pronounced than for BBs. So even if every class had the same share of non-premium consumable users, BBs tend to get more out of it.

@ OP If you already complain at T5, best to not go to T8+... its WAY worse up there.

Well, Mrconway just said, yoloing with the CV is against the rules. Also i doubt most players would actually play that way, seeing that many of them dont want to get too close, so they can play for the longest possible time. I fail to see, why MvR would get a buff out of that? The issue with AA is, that its entirely up to the CV if its good or bad. For many CV players, AA is already too strong due to Flak. For those who can dodge flak... its mostly useless. 1. So nothing changes does it? Currently, if you push against the CV, you make it easier for him. Since he woudnt gain any more damage with this change, it would still be the same issue with pushing into a CV. But as long as this doesnt happen, aka especially early game, its a huge bonus for surface ships. 2. Exactly my point. So you do have to choose, because a) CV can create crossfire and b) damage you can receive is absurdly high. When playing BB, and i have to decide to dodge a torp and show broadside, or take one more torp, i rather take the latter option. So this idea alleviates this problem. When you receive much less damage, you can decide i rather take the damage from the CV than show broadside to the enemy BB. May not be perfect, but i doubt there is a way to force CVs to not create crossfire on their own. Or WG would actually need to remove AP rockets and torps would become kinda useless. - Ever seen a ship shoot from one corner to the other? Me neither... Its because its impossible for them. Yet, its totaly fine for a CV. Also they have the easiest time reaching their potential max damage thanks to little RNG involved in their drops. Compared to massive RNG on BB side, which can get you very little even at reasonable engagement ranges. - So if you go closer (apparently?) why does it matter for you? Let the border humpers rot there and deal pitiful damage, they deserve it. - Neither did i say that i want to remove CVs, nor that i hate the game. CVs are OP/broken, WG is incapable to balance CVs properly, maybe if they see an idea worth implementing, something might happen. Ill do that when they close this one. That sounds reasonable. Atleast no artificial values.

Proof screenshot