Thracen

I can handle a conqueror, they can't strike the whole map like CVs. Just got struck through a full health missouri AA with the correct AA build, he lost one plane to focus fire before I exploded, and no I wasn't out of position, there were no AA ccs in the match to cower behind and I was close to allied fighters. Minutes into the game and insta deleted, sure you can have a game like this but you can't charge for consumables if you can't counter this complete and total bull excrement. Totally rage inducing.

Wouldn't it be the first reward/premium t10? Is this not something to do with the USN CL/CA split?

After mega buffs the t 22 is still worst in class, do nothing guns, handles worse than same tier BBs, which is insane!, itty bitty smoke. The thing just cannot and will not carry. It loses caps to IJN dds for gods sake. zero impact ship with no redeeming features. Sure it's not a painful ship to play now but it is still next to useless. Anyone disagree?

check your ship stats, if you have ships with 60% plus winrates, play them and nothing else, easy.

Limited cover and BB overpopulation. When you are facing 5 bbs each able to blap a CC angled or not at over 18km with more stealth than some cruisers even the most experienced and well positioned players can get got. More map cover and limited lines of fire for BBs would increase CC survivability and force BBs to close while effectively reducing BB "presence" if not their number. Frankly I think making cruisers the money making class is what's required, at the moment people play down tiers to farm their credits, what if at every tier up to T8 cruisers were earning 30% more credits? Sure, wallet warriors and the unadaptable will stay in their battle barges but the rest would have more cruisers in their rotation, learn to play and enjoy them a bit better. In an ideal world these new cruiser players would feast on the BB babies left behind until they learn to move forward and play as a team. I know I'm ranting now but I think the best game play comes at 12-15km in small fire teams of no more than 3-4 ships, a dd a bb and a couple of escorts having to hold a cap or push a flank. 18km supporting fire from the other 8 ships on the enemy team ruins it. (oh and don't get me started on CVs lol)

They are hit and miss ships in every sense. There will be games you simply won't be able to do well in, a dogged rpf pursuer or a well played coordinated CV will keep you off those big damage numbers and away from a fun and satisfying playstyle. You might be able to salvage something from these matches with patience late game, capping and picking off stragglers but it won't be fun and will often end in a loss as your team has to hold together long enough for you to still be ignored and your influence in those first 10 minutes will be limited to spotting, horse to water etc. Hydro, planes of all types, radar and rpf all have to be taken into account and if more than 1 or 2 are present the odds are against you. Short of CVs and their multitasking mechanical issues an IJN dd is probably the hardest line to play in my book. An unwieldy glass cannon that in the right circumstances can be utterly devastating, but just as or if not more likely to shatter under even modest pressure.

I started at T5 with a 7 point captain. The ship was not fine. Seems like WG are doing something about it. Yay. "For the German Tier V destroyer T-22 in stock configuration: standard firing range is 9.1 km, detectability range by air is 2.96 km, and detectability range by sea is 6.52 km."

I am not a T10 BB player, as a cruiser main the ship I fear the most is the monty, out of the T10s, accurate, heavy guns in big numbers with enough stealth and speed to appear out of nowhere. The people that play the monty tend to be more aggressive and unpredictable than the yammy, although that might be the yammys attributes restricting playstyle. The Monty is a threat at anything less than 18km, the grosser doesn't seem dangerous until about 16km and is big and slow enough to be predictable in it's firing and target selection. The yamato is only scary in open water, with spotting, they tend not to move much at all and rarely threaten caps, the lol pens suck but they are more avoidable than people think, and only really dangerous when the match is already done and you're charging down the last ships. Not uncommonly a yammy (if cvs aren't around). I think lowering the citadel on the monty isn't a bad move, she's meant to be closer to the fight. The Iowa and Missouri on the other hand, they have the speed and stealth that's meant to help them avoid being caught out. There needs to be some way to punish BBs, now its only really the IJN girls that get spanked above T8.

if anyone is looking for a decent player to complete this with invite me, I'd like to increase my odds a bit.

So I'm trying out the new smoke, works fine so far but it's hard to judge because I still haven't been spotted under the new rules. I think this is in part down to those less informed players simply not knowing. Further evidence, BBs rolling into smoke within 10km of enemies close to death and continuing to shoot. I wouldn't mind but when all that secondary and primary fire is coming in at the spotted BB in the middle of my little Fiji smoke can hit me and bloody well hurts! Frankly I'm reasonably sure it's going to take months for some players to figure out why they are spotted and until then, I'm back to tanking for BBs in my CCs in smoke! Anybody else notice this sort of stuff?

Oh I'm all for the change, I think UK CLs needed a little more interaction during their smokes and charging all smokes whoever is in it is now easier, if only a little where some ships are concerned. (even the plus 1km amounts to a free detection upgrade). I think getting blapped by a T9-10 BB you can/could do nothing about is less likely is also a good thing.

I think that even the biggest of BB babies will figure out that they keep getting detected when they shoot in smoke eventually. I wonder if we'll see any thread appear on the forum asking for help with it?

Keep having to play T4/5 games with cvs. and there is no counter play at all. Even the cruisers have no AA dps, sure it's fine in cruisers and BBs because no manual drop anymore, but I get perma spotted in my dds and short of playing alongside a BB that maxes out at 20knots there is nothing I can do in my dds. Honestly I'd rather play a T10 camp fest with cross dropping pros than play a match where I am effectively a BB secondary battery. I accept CV bull poop at higher tiers because I can AA spec, not an option at tier 5 with 6 captain points to spend even if it did do more that 10 dps :S. To be clear it's not the cvs that are killing me, its the spotting that I can do nothing about, forcing me to play BEHIND my bbs (which I god damn hate!) or behind islands, which is worse than useless.

Yes this is exactly what I meant and said using words *sarcasm* DDs win games, mainly by capping, 1 CV can dramatically reduce the effectiveness of multiple dds, to the point where the ships simply can't be played effectively. DDs do not operate well while confined to the AA bubbles of ships that go 20knots. Allied CVs cannot be relied upon for cover due to CV imbalance, dramatic skill variance and differing load outs. When playing as a dd against a cv at low tiers, I have to get lucky and have the CV go ruin another poor schmucks match or simply sail in the middle of the pack and contribute nothing for the first 10 minutes of the game. DDs are not fast enough to make a break for it between strikes and any cv with some brain power will loiter over you anyway. A spotted dd is as good as dead in most cases early game. All I was asking for was enough dps to snag 3 or 4 planes out of the air during an entire match so I get some exp for being utterly screwed for the full 20 minutes. As it stands 0 the expected number of planes shot down as they sit for several minutes above me.

Jesus, do you know how obnoxious that is? These planes are faster and stealthier than the dds they are spotting. What is the correct position? buy BBs with AA so you are safe and can't do your job? Might as well sail to A1 and be done, you'll be safe. If you actually want to cap and torp and screen for the other classes you can't because the CCs don't have enough AA to cover you beyond 1km. Smug useless comment that's factually debatable at best.

most ships at those tiers have effectively zero, all i want is the ability to pick of 1 or 2 plane a minutes so they don't loiter and perma spot for ZERO cost

Tell that to a fletcher or a grozovoy or a Z52. However as I said I can deal with higher tiers, the maps are bigger and I have big bad AA bubbles to hide behind from UK Cls and other AA beasts, none are available to do this untill the cleveland at t6.

it's the spotting thats a problem. There is no cost for a cv loitering right over a dd trying to do anything useful.

I am, none the less this a good tip well worth mentioning.

Well that's factually wrong, a large number can fit defensive fire and can have very reasonable AA ratings. Do I need to make a list of accuracy concessions made for the sake of gameplay? I was talking about dds, I have no problem in my BBs at low tiers, or getting hit as stated in my post Oh look, its me saying that. And finally for your dodge anything remark. Seriously did you read my post or just the title? Not meaning to be combative here but your post was flat out unhelpful.

Just played a T 5 game, 2 CVs on each team not a single cruiser. There was absolutely no AA save fighters. I've never seen such a broken asymmetric system in my life. 4 dudes with shotguns, the rest of us were fish, with the poor dds being the most useless of the fish in the proverbial barrel. Anybody care to justify the introduction of CVs at tier 4 and the introduction of AA at tier 6? Please just assume a long page of red edits from a mod, this is disgusting!

Radar bait, take an line into a cap that lets them know you are there, they hit the radar button, but your planned route leaves you safely behind an island, radar burnt. Not easy by any means, but possible and effective. (I am not a good player and I manage this from time to time). My problem in dds are cvs, I don't understand how a dd is meant to play when you are trapped within your teams aa bubbles with your torps being insta spotted. You can't shoot, cap or torp or scout. What else do dds do? well sink, is the obvious answer.

single launch system on the gallant is quite the trait for the line. I dread to think what a good player could do in a T10 version. I also relish the thought of a few more of such ships in my port however.

So you think a T7 CV vs a T9 CV would be fair? Team battle like CBT are different beasts from the all random matches that make up the majority of the game. less players all practised together on voice communications does not equal a random battle. Come now the comparison is silly and certainly not what I'm discussing. Furthermore I would not dismiss spotting, if you've ever been an IJN dd with a empty bomber plane overhead you're realise just how stupidly powerful a CV is when 1/7 of it's power can remove a ship from the game without even having to hit it.

This is wrong :S.There is a huge difference between role and influence. (As for your example, it couldn't be more subjective, for a start capping varies in value base on map mode, standard battle, domination, epicenter. Spotting varies based on weather conditions and all ships do damage in different ways to different targets oh and all ships have the ability to spot too?) . Role: the function assumed or part played by a person or thing in a particular situation. Influence:the capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behaviour of someone or something, or the effect itself. How are they anything like the same? Can you please acknowledge this basic use of words? The CV as you said is the most influential class, I'm glad we have that agreed on. The CVs limitations are set at the match outcome by the MM, based on enemy team AA. The CV is the best positioned class to circumvent the AA by cherry picking targets. This is the biggest problem with balancing other than player skill because you have to balance at CV against it's weakest targets not it's strongest, which is simply will ignore. Imagine a dd that could fly over islands with the same speed of a torp bomber that you could not shoot at with your main guns, only secondaries. This is how CVs fight.