Thracen

Sooo, the matchmaker is a thing, and I thought we could have some fun coming up with legitimate teams of ships and voting which one we think will win. Assuming equal player skill. I'll start Team A Team B Yamato Kurfurst Missouri Izumo Musashi Izumo Jean Bart Fredrick de grosser Stalingrad Minotaur Kronshtadt Neptune Kronshtadt Donskoi Roon Ibuki Kutuzov Cleveland Black Tashkent Chung Mu Yugumo Z-52 Daring https://www.strawpoll.me/16976496 set up a quick straw poll for fun. Let me know what you sailors think.

So I don't consider myself a bad player, however I know I am a very bad Tashkent player. I Just don't know what to do in her, she cannot contest caps, she gets ambushed by cruisers and I feel when I don't play her like a dd, I feel my team is likely to lose because they have one less dd. She doesn't seem fast enough to dodge incoming fire and she eats torps if she smokes up. I don't know if the heal is better but frankly I know others managing and I just can't so please, if you are feeling kind some help would be just peachy. I have searched the forum, and I didn't find anything in English, although I doubt the ability of the search function here, and there doesn't seem to be anything even close to recent after a youtube search. Also, I hate the ship with the burning rage of 10,000 suns.

I think Clan battles should get all the support they can and this would be a very easy adjustment for Wargaming to make. Let's face it, any boundaries to clan battles that can be removed should. Furthermore people that wrack up loads of Clan battles are probably some of the biggest warships fans out there, why punish them for it?

So, I like the map reticule. I think it is great that you have some sort of idea of were your guns are located without needing a visual point of reference through the scope. However it does mean that certain ships in certain situations get spanked, hard. Again not an automatic disaster, unless of course those ships already are getting a serious pounding already. Ladies and gents, I give you smoke cruisers. In nearly every game you don't play like a fearful coward you will be spotted unexpectedly. When this happens you smoke up, you will almost always lose 50% minimum of your health, often you will be dead. However now, your location in that smoke is known for a good 5-10 seconds longer, this drives your survival chance unreasonably low for simply sailing anywhere near a cap. I think blind shooting is good for the meta, accurate blind shooting I think is boardline. Accurate blind shooting that punishes with crits. That is bad, real bad. I've been trying to play a neptune recently, and the pain well it would be too graphic to describe. Since her arrival in the game there has been massive increases in radar, hydro, oh and the smoke nerf. On top of the general powercreap of new lines. She was never a stand out to begin with, and I think she doesn't fit the progression to the mino well from the eddy. So in summary. Does the map reticule nerf smoke cruisers in your opinion? If so what could be done? Thanks in advance o7

Thanks Forlorn that is constructive and on topic, however "sail other ships" wasn't quite what I was hoping for. Although accepting I'm in a rough ship will probably help me somewhat.

Ahh, yes. The ever helpful "get gud" response. I suppose I should take it you both don't think this is an issue in the slightest? I'd like to think I'm not a complete scrub, and I think the idea of a smoke cruiser never being rendered by the enemy in a battle is next to impossible no? I have certainly never seen it done I don't think, at least while a player was you know, playing.

I feel like I am exposed for longer, and that incoming fire is more accurate. I have also used this myself..... several devastating strikes later I have a strong anecdotal base. Again I'm talking of maybe 1 or two crits per exposure, but that is more than enough to end a CC. Of course none of this would be much of an issue if you could rely on dds and carriers to spot, however we all know that dreamland ain't here :D .

Hmm I agree with what you are saying chaps, however I'm speaking of those moments when you are not expecting to be spotted but then are, you slam on the breaks dump smoke, but the map will leave a nice "last known location" shadow for people to shift their cursor too and click, even if they weren't watching. It's this accurate and painful fire I am discussing. Something new I have noticed in my return to smoke ccs since this addition to the game.

Come on guys, I think we all took the bait a little hard on this one? I think we've all had a rage moment or a brain fart or two me especially. I also think we all hold an aspect or two of the game up as something we find unreasonable. I've ranted about CVs for days and I'm not the only one with an issue I'm sure. So to the OP, yes torps can be a pain, but there is counterplay out there for them. Playing a few torp dds can really help see the other side of things. Oh and breaks after a run of rough matches are a good idea. Happy sailing. o7

Right, I too share some of these feelings. However, wargaming will never make their free to play game "punishing" it is counter to its business model and server health in general. That said I do believe improvements can and should be made. I think the most frustrating games, nearly all forum members have experienced are the ones where you take two caps, the game is all but won. Your team mates however have other ideas, charging the enemy that are all clumped up on 1 point 1 at a time feeding them the win. I think a better display that shows very clearly, possibly with flashing lights and sirens what is actually happening in terms of points, caps and game outcome would be very useful for a lot of players that need 99% of their brain power to shoot straight and not hit islands. Getting these players tactically aware would improve the general standard of play no end.

So I have come back from a long hiatus, I'm really enjoying being back although there is clearly much to catch up on. I heard the Izumo had been buffed so I restarted that grind. There is no doubt she is less fragile to HE, but I always countered that with positioning anyway. The problem I have with her are the guns, on paper they should be fantastic? But they feel like the worst BB guns I've used north of t6. Hell I prefer the Kongos! So if anyone can give me help on getting these guns singing I would appreciate it. They seem to have some quirk with me that makes them terrible in comparison to anything else I shoot. Now the Musashi, the other slap in the face to Izumo drivers. Does anyone at all know how to deal with these things in a BB? You cannot bow tank You cannot angle You cannot rush You cannot out range her So what can you do other the run? I turned to face a half health Musashi in a nearly full health Missouri. I had 10ish km to cover. I got crit though the bow and sunk in two salvos. (had to try something we were losing) So please. How do I get the Izumo to work? and How do I get the Musashi down on the surface with mortal ships? Thanks in advance Thrace

The only reason my stats match my other t9s in the Izumo is because I've improved a lot since I was last in t9s, that and my other t9s include the ibuki and donskoi, all played from stock by the way. Also WR is very deceptive. for a single player. I'm not looking forward to the next 66 battles that's for sure. Although I am starting to think it might be the t9 effect, constantly up against t10s and super t9s like the musashi. Also I think she has pensacola issues, even if there are closer easier targets she gets focused because of the citadel. Why they removed them from the game in most high tier bbs I don't know.

Please please tell me how you get these guns to shoot straight. I can't hit a broadside wocester at 11k. The shells seem so slow, I swear she simply turned out of my shots for 3 salvos, even when I predicted the turns.I tell you all, for me these guns DO NOT work. I know it must be me but knowing that doesn't help. I caught a broadside kronshtad at 8km, flat broadside, moving around in my Izumo because as always there was a musashi on the other team laughing his lol pens at me. I shot him and gt 3 pens and 2 overpens with 9 guns shooting!!!!!!!!!!!!, no crits, and 4 misses at that range? Anyone got any clues at all, I'm going mental. I can drop shells on nearly anything at 16km in nearly any other ship you care to name but this one just makes no sense to me at all. Edit: Just checked my stats I have a higher hit ratio with main battery guns on the freddy!!!

Doesn't mean it was a fun or fair ship to play. That has got to be the least useful and constructive sentence I have seen on this thread, why even post?

A 15k downgrade to tier 9 is not exactly what anyone has in mind as they go up through the tiers. More guns and mobility mean the Amagi does just fine at long range, I notice no improvement at all in the Izumo. As for He survivability, again, being able to move makes being spammed at way less of a problem. The Izumo takes away things I need and gives nothing useful back, at least in terms of my playstyle. Avoiding HE spam is second nature to any good BB driver, reducing my useable gun count to 6 for that ain't good.

I went through the freddy and to say that the 4 guns is worse than Izumos 6 is of course true. However turtle back lets you use more than 4 far more than the izumo, the secondaries and the hydro also make her much more fun and interesting than and Izumo. Positioning is ofcourse key, to any and every ship except maybe cvs. I would argue that the Izumo doesn't have the guns required to play like a yamato, and does not have the other aspects required to play in any other style effectively. When a match starts I just have to hope to snipe some german bbs broadside. I don't seem to have any luck hitting anything smaller. For anecdotal evidence: Amagi stats: WR PR Avg Damage 63.16% 2 196 90 143 Izumo stats: WR PR Avg Damage 62.5% 1 784 75 631

I always thought the consensus on premiums is that they should try to offer something different over raw power. Apparently people expect to be buying power, which is exactly the point I was making with my "apparently it is fine" comment. Other less important uses, are as trainers and credit earners but being so good as to make their tier mates an absolute joke? No, I'm sorry but I think this situation needs fixing. I've made it through a few different t9s, none have been worse than the Izumo, my list includes the ibuki, and being spanked regularly by a Musashi and to even get told in spawn as a match starts that we are going to lose because my use of an Izumo, almost guarantees a negative match up. For anecdotal evidence: Amagi stats: WR PR Avg Damage 63.16% 2 196 90 143 Izumo stats: WR PR Avg Damage 62.5% 1 784 75 631

So what we are saying is: The izumo is a terrible experience, just like some other t9s and that is fine, and the fact that Musashi makes the Izumo look like wilted toilet tissue is also fine? Damn, no wonder wargaming does these sort of things. Apparently it is fine :D

Ok I see what you are saying. However, I would argue the fact that less people play it if anything would increase the stats since the people playing it either love the ship or are straight grinding and getting used to it. Secondly, the fact that it is miserable to play and everything else in class is better both in stats and fun is part of the problem! :D

I thought that was the thing to do, bait a broadsideish shot and turn in. But in all my attempts it has never, ever happened for me. They either pen anyways or go straight through the bow anyways. And as for flanking sure, I agree, I know the weak points on a yammy/mushashi, but how the F to you get to them when you have that distance to close under those lol pen guns. Islands? why would a musashi be there when they can sit in spawn with clear sight lines? Stealth? Sure if there have entirely run out of team mates, but that doesn't happen much either. To put it simply. She gets to dictate the terms of engagement, and the terms are "run or die". Maybe the Izumo guns don't work for me because I'm used to slower shells in other BBs? I don't think I'm a bad player, though and you'd think 20 or so matches into the grind I would have adjusted. I seem to just get bounces or over pens, I'll tell you the number of times I've put 3 rounds over and 3 rounds under a ship with a 6 gun volley would make you want to throw up, and at medium range too! The only good damage numbers I get from her are when I get a German BB broadside on the belt. Thats kinda it. Oh and the gap in damage between the Musahi and an Izumo is damn right shameful for wargaming to be sure. Your free exp ship nets you an additional 29088 damage per round over the standard line. Literally the bottom and top of their tier and class. So do you guys think there is a problem here or is it just me being old?

Yeah but no. The guns feel far too bad to run at 6, and in the same post you suggest a bow in style and a kiting style. Turning in THE BB with the most vulnerable cit in the top tiers is not really possible. The amagi, pre buff post buff anyway you like it buff performs far better. I don't think there is another ship in the game that feels as useless as an Izumo on 6 guns. I don't doubt your stats on the guns, I just don't know why they feel so terrible. Missouri has a worse gun layout and worse guns but does a way better job? I don't think the difference in damage figures comes down to radar do you?

I don't know how you do it. I think the Izumo is utter garbage. The Amagi is a better ship by such a very long way it is embarrising. Accurate at long ranges? Sure you get 1 or two hits on IDEAL targets, usually very low damage numbers, if not 0 damage pens. Seems like the stats agree with me. Yes she is survivable at 20km, but name a BB that isn't? She is also one of the few remaining T9s that actually has a citidel above the waterline too. The guns just seem terrible, slow shells weird dispersion and very low damage and pen? I'm grinding her now and if anyone can be more helpful than git gud I'd appreciate it.

Hi there, I just went back into my high tier dds for this torp and fire quest. I left dds when RPF came out, figured with the new skill tree and the ijn nerfs there was no fun in it at my skill level. I thought I'd come back to them when I have some more games under my belt. So on my return I played a few games and invariably I felt like a mouse in a cage full of tigers. Radar and hydro on nearly every ship, CVs are suddenly way more common. The dds I'm in handle worse than some CCs, the torps are slow or short range and pointless anyway with all the aircraft around. So my points of discussion: 1. Do dds have to play so terribly defensive for the first 10 minutes and hope their team doesn't lose? 2. Do you enjoy the current DD play style in the top tiers? If so why? Personally I think my biggest problem with dds is how helpless they are without good teammates, CCs can kite from range when a team is less than stellar, BBs can tank it out, dds can't even use their own smoke for damage if a their team is losing ground. That and the art of getting torp hits through dds, ccs, hydro and aircraft seems impossible with 8-10 km range and travel at 56 knots in some cases? lol the Khaba could almost outrun them! (Note, I know this topic does cross into balance realms. Ideally I want to avoid that discussion since it's already everywhere on the forum, what I'm after is the mentality it takes to be the patient stealthy hunter in a dd and not the panicked prey.) Much appreciated.

So if you guys care for an update, I'm back in dds and trying to get my benson captain ready for ranked, new in the ship so need to get him to not suck at the moment. This is what the matchmaker is doing to me, so far 100% I dare to get even close to a cap, get spotted and get cross dropped. Realistically what are the chances of having a good game here? 5 BBs, 3 with hydro, out gunned or out hydroed/ out spotted by every dd on the map oh and that's before we mention the t10 ccs 1 with radar and the T10 CV. I don't mind getting my arse handed to me on occasion, but I like at least some sort of hope, this MM has none in my mind. If this is the sort of thing that is acceptable then fine, at least warn me so I don't waste my flags and camos. Some people spend money on those!