clemi135
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Separating economic bonuses from visual customization — More details(DB 327)
clemi135 replied to Makoniel's topic in Development Blog
Just noticed that they adjusted the ESCL signal compared to the first devblog. They added a +50% fexp bonus, which equals the amount to what we get currently. So yeah, running all 4 eco signals without a camo nets the same fexp now. But since you usually run a camo, I added a Scifi Space camo. Now 100 battles with all 4 ecos + camo give me 500*100 = 50k fexp. Compared to the 51 +300% and 34 +600% boosters, which give me 44.2k fexp after 85 battles. You can add 15 battles without anything, i.e. 1.5k to a total 45.7k fexp. Now you know where my ~10% loss comes from. So yeah, good to see they did something for the eco signals alone. Using any camo that gives at least +100% exp, so like all of them, results in the issue that I talked about though. But I guess I can be happy that they did something. I agree that WG can't account for every single combination, which is why I usually don't include camos in my calculations. There's just too many of them, which in combination with special signals add too much complexity. But like, either signals alone or just the most basic combination, 4 eco + a random camo, should be fixable. And again, my special signals example isn't that extreme. Add all your special signals in the calculator and check how many full sets you get. For all the remaining signals, which aren't in sets, my previous example applies. I don't know what you have, how many full sets etc., but I have like 80 full sets, even though I have 120 of each expect a single one (of which I have 80 obviously). So yeah, a third of all my dragon signals being useless isn't that fun. 
Separating economic bonuses from visual customization — More details(DB 327)
clemi135 replied to Makoniel's topic in Development Blog
Yes, I did exactly that. Reason: I have approximately 120 of each special signal, but only 80 Ouroboros. I therefore have 80 full sets, which get converted into the big +7200% boosters. But I still have 40 partial sets. I could (and would) use all of them together, netting in a big amount of fexp. But as in my example, this gets ignored in their conversion. All it takes is an recursive algorithm, that computes the full sets first, then removes the corresponding signals and repeats the process for partial sets, until you have no signal left. This isn't hard to program in an actual programming software. But in Excel? I am impressed that WG managed to compute the full set stuff with it. So yeah, given this issue probably won't be fixed, I'll use up all my special signals until I have only full sets remaining.This fixes the issue by myself. This is where you fell for WGs rounding in the merging process. See, your single Basilisk gets converted into a single +50% fexp booster. Then, each 6 of them are merged into a +300% booster. You only give 1 in this example though, so it is rounded up. You can put any number of Basilisk between 1 and 6 in the calculator, and you'll get a single 300% booster. As soon as you put 7 in, you get 2. Let's take an realistic amount of signals, like 61 Basilisk. You get 11 of the +300% boosters, instead of 10 +300% and a single +50%, as it would be without rounding. Still a buff, but far from the 454% increase you wrote. This is the exact same for your example using normal eco flags. You dont get a spare +300% one for every single set of eco signals you have. No matter how many hundreds of each eco signal you have on your account, you'll get like 13 of them for free. Again, it's a bit of a buff, but a very minor one overall. Plus my example takes those 'spare' ones into account, and it still ends up being a nerf to fexp. So yeah, you get something from the rounding up, which is the reason why you get more exp, cexp and credits (as I've written in my original post). But for fexp, even this isn't enough. You can put an realistic amount of eco signals into the conversion tool, like 400 of each, where the rounding up doesn't have this big of an influence and you should end up in a ~10% nerf to fexp. I did this calculation before, but forgot the exact numbers. 
Separating economic bonuses from visual customization — More details(DB 327)
clemi135 replied to Makoniel's topic in Development Blog
I am using their calculator, so the doubling is already taken into acount. It is 50% less. 
Separating economic bonuses from visual customization — More details(DB 327)
clemi135 replied to Makoniel's topic in Development Blog
Second devblog, still the same issues as the first. The conversion still doesn't work for free exp. It works for the other 3 resources, but not for this one. I gave many examples for this on the previous forum post, which got ignored. Let's try this again, maybe pinging @Makoniel helps. Anyway, the conversion turns every current bonus into a booster one by one. This works fine for exp, captain exp and credits. But since free exp is multiplicative with respect to exp, this results in a nerf. With multiplicatve, I mean that stacking multiple signals/camo, that result into e.g. +300% exp and +600 fexp, you get an effective (1+3)*(1+6)=21 times as much fexp. (i had to switch from +xxx% to *x, since % doesnt work well in multiplicative settings). But right now, this would be converted into a few boosters adding up to +600%, i.e. as if it was additive. You do some minor adjustments, so it may be converted into +1200% total, but definitely not the *21 that we have currently. A more proper example using you calulators is the following: That's more exp and cexp, which is mainly caused by you rounding up e.g. +150% into +200% boosters. Plus you get boosters for 75 battles, so I'd have to add a few battles played without any bonuses to the current model. But that's not the point, as I've said, the conversion for exp and cexp (and credits) works perfectly fine. BUT for fexp, that's like 50% less! The reason is pretty simple, you convert them one by one into little boosters. Even though right now, as you can see from your tool, this signals together end up in an effective +3431%! bonus. Even the 9 big +2400% we get can't hold up with this.(Edit: I forgot that base fexp gain is doubled, so the big ones are actually +4800%. But we only get 9 out of 50 signal sets, which as isn't enough as the remaing +300% and +600%, i.e. +600% and +1200% due to doubling, are a complete joke compared to the current +3431%. The doubled fexp gain is taken into account in the numbers that I calculated above, since I was using WGs calculator. So my argument still holds) This is again, due to exp and free exp being multiplicative. You address this issue in the 'full sets'. Which means running every single eco and special signals. But partitial sets, as in my example, get completely ignored. So yeah, will this be addressed @Makoniel? Will my posts be ignored again? Is this a mistake? Is this intentional? 
Separating economic bonuses from visual customizations (DB 318)
clemi135 replied to YabbaCoe's topic in Development Blog
They are converted into Tokens. 1 signal into 1 Token. For camos it's either 1 or 5 per piece, depending on the bonus. From the devblog: 
Separating economic bonuses from visual customizations (DB 318)
clemi135 replied to YabbaCoe's topic in Development Blog
The full sets don't work with the Spring Sky Camo btw. You'd get 8114 fexp right now, 7300 after the conversion. Very minor though. Overall the conversion works very well for credits, exp and cexp. For fexp, you'd need to do the same calculations that you do for the "full sets" for all "partial sets". Here an example: As you can see in the red brackets, I have 77 "full sets" for fexp. This is exactly as it should be. But as you can see in the blue brackets, I still have 12 sets of every fexp signal except Ourubouros, that I could stack in a single battle right now Without using a camo, this is a bonus of 3938% for each battle. But in the current conversion rules, all the remaining signals are being converted into the small boosters, leading to the nerfs. So in short, all you need to do is apply the same calculations made for "full sets" for the remaining signals in the "Number after sets" column over and over again, until it is empty. That way, there would be no nerfs in the conversion. 
Separating economic bonuses from visual customizations (DB 318)
clemi135 replied to YabbaCoe's topic in Development Blog
Yes, it works well for those full sets. Your previous calculation isn't wrong though. Because as soon as you miss a single one of the signals, you start to see the big nerfs. As for myself, I have 80 Ourubouros, and more than 100 of all the other signals. So I'll get 80 of the big +7200% fexp boosters. That's good. But the free exp bonuses from the remaining 20 of the other signals will be converted into the smaller boosters. And as we've seen so far, that's a big nerf compared to running them together right now. Biggest issue for me is when I'm running only the 4 eco + a random camo. This is what I do all the time, and because it's not a full set it's being ignored. It results in a 20%40% nerf in fexp. I have to mention that regular exp is being buffed by 20% though. Give and take, but WG claimed that there would be no nerfs. The exact calculations for this are in a previous post. 
Separating economic bonuses from visual customizations (DB 318)
clemi135 replied to YabbaCoe's topic in Development Blog
Rounding. You get 13,155 total yourself, so 1315.5 fexp per battle. Since we don't get halves, it's rounded up to 1316. So the only difference is me computing it for each battle and then doing the *10 at the end. Mine are done with WGs reward calculator in the devblog btw, so that's what you'd get ingame. You forgot to add the 10 Type 59s. They turn into the 4 +300%s. 100% agree. The new system completely nerfs any combination that isn't their advertised "full set" into the ground. 
Separating economic bonuses from visual customizations (DB 318)
clemi135 replied to YabbaCoe's topic in Development Blog
By putting it in the Excel Sheet myself. I've made a new copy to make I haven't been using an old version, but it's still the same for me: Keep in mind that we get one of each booster for free, so the real results in fexp are 4,0,2,0. You can see that I've added 10 Type 59, since they get converted into +200% exp/cexpt and +100% fexp. The 10 Ourubouros are being converted to 10 +400% bonuses. Each six of them are merged into +2400%, and since they round up we get 2 of them. The 10 Type 59 are turned into 10 +100% bonuses, each three merged into +300%, giving us 4 of them. So my results match the explanation in the devblog. You getting 3 of the +600% boosters is confusing to me, sure that there's no mistake? I had to reload my calculator once because he started doing very weird stuff... 
Separating economic bonuses from visual customizations (DB 318)
clemi135 replied to YabbaCoe's topic in Development Blog
You forgot that base free exp gain is doubled. So your 10x Ourubouros are converted into a total 9600%, a buff to the current 7770%. The conversion for each signal individually works as intended. But the conversion overall is still a big nerf to fexp. Because WG does not take combinations of signals into account, which boost income by a lot. An easy example: 10 battles with Type 59 (+200% exp ) together with Ourubouros (+777% fexp). Using these two currently in a 1k base exp game result in 1316*10 = 13.16k fexp. After the conversion, we get 4 of +300% and 2 +2400% fexp boosters. Since we don't get 10 boosters, I will add 4 battles played without them. In the end, we get 400*4 + 2.5k*2 + 4*100 = 7k fexp This is around 50% less fexp in the new system. The reason for that is simple. Right now, the +200% exp and the +777% fexp are multiplicative. Since +200% means 3 times as much, what we really get is 3*877 = 2631 times as much free exp as normally. In EVERY single one of those 10 battles. In the future, we have 4 battles with +300% and 2 with +2400%. Even with the doubled base fexp modifier, as you can see above, it's still a massive nerf to fexp. You can read my post on the previous page for more examples without special signals. 
Separating economic bonuses from visual customizations (DB 318)
clemi135 replied to YabbaCoe's topic in Development Blog
The conversion rules right now are a straight nerf to free exp. Captain and regular exp are being buffed, at least sometimes. I'll give the reason for the buff at the end. In my following examples, which are the most common usage of signals+camos, captain exp is staying the same. Let`s look at the first example "Economic signals, simple camouflage" that you give in the devblog. It's running all 4 eco signals and a random expendable camo, let's take the SciFi Space one from the devblog. Using your reward calculator, the results in a 1k base exp battle are: 2.5k exp 4k captain exp 500 free exp Now let`s say we play 50 of those battles, consuming 50 of each signal and camo. This results in a total 125k exp 200k captain exp 25k free exp Now let's put those 50 signals/camos in your conversion calculator. They are converted into 50 of the +200% exp boosters 25 of the +200% and 13 of the +800% captain exp boosters 17 of the +300% and 17 of the +600% captain exp boosters Since we don't get 50 boosters for captain/free exp, I will add 12/16 battles played without any boosters to captain/free exp. So after 50 battles, we have using your calculator 3k*50 = 150k exp 3k*25 + 9k*13 + 1k*12= 204k captain exp 400*17 + 700*17 + 100*16 = 20.3k free exp So as claimed above, captain exp is roughly the same. Regular exp is being buffed by 20%, free exp is being nerfed by around 20%. I've done the same calculations with the Blue Digital camo. The results with boosters are again 20% more exp, the exact same captain exp and roughly 20% less free exp. Using the Type 59 camo, the results with boosters are around 15% higher in exp, roughly the same in captain exp and a 40%! nerf to free exp (35k vs. ~20k). I can explain the 20% buff to exp. The EqualSpeedCharlieLondon signal, which gives +50% currently, is being buffed to a +100% bonus. The reason why captain exp is staying the same is because right now, both EqualSpeedCharlieLondon and ZuluHotel add +50% each. So +100% total. After the conversion, ZuluHotel is being buffed to +100% as well, giving the same bonus. The reason why free exp is getting nerfed by 20%, or even 40% is more complicated. This is due to how the bonuses to regular exp and free exp interact currently, i.e. multiplicative. The boosters are strictly additive. And since, for example 5+5= 10, 5*5=25, we get far less from the new additive system. The problem with the current system is the big number of different combinations you can create with signals. The more you use, the bigger impact every single one has. You therefore can't just convert a single signal into a single booster. You'd have to consider all possible combinations, and then find the average bonus it gives right now. Not an easy task. Keep in mind that this is the smallest example, not using any special signals. I haven't done any calculations with them yet, but I expect the differences to be even more extreme. And can we talk about what you write in the devblog? This: As you can see in my above calculations, this is a complete lie. You don't "gain more credits and all types of experience". The example you are giving is an account that has only one signal each and one camo on the entire account! As soon as you have 2 or more signals, which every single player has, this doesn't apply. Who added this to the devblog? Does he even understand how the conversion works?