Grumpy_Shark

There you said it. DIVISIONS IS THE PROBLEM just remove divisions from randoms and all will become fairer for everybody.

Yamato

Ibuki

The way the matchmaking takes place being slightly more or less in stats means nothing. It is mostly luck. If you get in good teams you will also stay alive longer and you will do more damage as well. Your stats don't mean anything to me It's the matchmaking that is flawed , its the divisions that create unfair advantages on certain people, and what are you , the beta,alpha, gamma ,delta testers are doing? Are you helping the game become more fair for everybody? Nope. You just sit here fueling your hate against certain ships to which you try to put all the blame and bully around any casual player not in your "little clique" if he has an opinion different to yours, trying to say his opinion doesn't matter because he has lesser stats etc . My arguments are quite valid and beat yours and many others with bigger numbers than yours agree with me.The fact is your arguments don't stand up and probably the only reason you tried to turn the discussion elsewhere is exactly because you are starting to have doupts about your claims yourselves. So many people are telling you simple things that like for example that the smoke is not making you invulnerable and is quite easy to be hit inside it. Which shows that despite your stats you either don't know so much or you are just mindless fanatics for some reason of your own or perhaps WG wants to nerf those ships anyway and has put you to make such "protest threads" only to justify the nerf afterwards and claim that "it had been asked by many people without any objection" so here we are me and many others ruining your soup, creating an equally solid wall of objection to your terrible idea. Too bad you need to invent some other excuse. Now go on, hit me with your worst insults. You only amuse me

Your post makes me very happy because it shows clearly that even a guy like you, that also played the beta of this game so some months before release... perhaps even a year, doesn't do much better than me, the average Doe. So when the score started to count for real you already had huge experience of months playing already which I didn't, I punished my stats while I was still learning the ropes of this game. Considering also the fact that most of you betas and alphas and supertesters use the "division method" that gives an unfair advantage and you know it , yet you never cared to mention anything about that to the devs, proves my argument even more true. Start playing solo if you dare, without the division method that turns the odds in your favor and you see where your stats will get Time for me now to

In that case you admit that WG deliberately wants to keep that form of unbalance called divisions. Actually i just realised that the term "balance" is used to cover up the true term that should be "fairness". What matters is not balance but fairness. Is WG caring about fairness? Will these balancing changes improve fairness or not? This is the real question. In that case you must realise that trying to balance, individual smaller imbalances in a given situation where a greater imbalance that creates unfairness takes place in effect makes things even more unfair or not fixing anything. And to use a living example.In a state where big crimes would be able to be dodged by a powerful Pminorance of people, supposedly stealing millions, pretending that you make severe laws to catch small thefts of pennies, in fact, would create even more general unfairness, so it would be an hypocritic fix of things. Now as you said i am one of the many but a marginal difference might in fact not mean much. Perhaps Belfast has better numbers because is being bought as an extra and usually people buying premiums are caring more for the game so they might have already a clear idea how to make better use of the ship. So they have better results in it. And perhaps the main reason of smoke nerfs, I fear, is that smoke will be nerfed because it was giving some people the luxury of the division benefits in solo play! So where in fact one would need a dedicated dd player in a division to smoke him , with a RN cruiser or a Kutuzov one was able to recreate it at a lesser effect. And WG doesn't want that.They don't like self sufficient soloers. They want all the power to be in divisions over the soloers for their own reasons. Now of course with the smoke nerf also the division play that was benefiting by smoke play will be hurt some but still the division will have other means at their disposition to overpower the bunch of the rest. While the averages will have even less means in their disposition to give a fight. And that at the end of the day even if it appears more balanced it leads to more unfairness PS let alone with the stats i have no good team would have me so... i guess i ll keep going with what i have, as long as it lasts... as long as it will be fun for me. You know why i play these days? I don't even care about the win/loss ratio. This is likely to go down despice me improving in game because i play solo.... I play to get that good salvo or for some small instances in games, i play for myself for my performance, now if it leads in victory so much the better, but i no longer care so much about wins/losses cause (perhaps because i am paying old mistakes, not sure how the matchmaking algorithm works) i tend to get more over the losing side than the winning in general. Perhaps that would change only if i would become an ace. In fact from what i see most games i lose i am usually top 5 and most games i win i am also in top 5 but it is still what it is.

The ships you mentioned i used to play long ago. At that time i didn't know the game so well. Why don't you use my Fiji as example? Only 15% less and similar victory/loss ratio. "WHAAAAT? FIJI OP CAUSE DEMENCIUS IS good IN IT, NERF IT PLEASE!" And you saw nothing... Cause also Fiji i was playing a while back as well. Why don't you take a look on my Algerie that I play these days, I do 38k average on Algerie. 41k on Belfast. (Is just that Algerie has bad luck in matchmaking so i tend to lose on it more often that i win) "OH DEMENCIUS DOES IN ALGERIE about as good as in Belfast! ALGERIE MUST BE OP! NERF IT . NERF IT TO THE GROUND!" As for divisions it is not easy for me to find players for that purpose, it's much easier for you to grab the OP ships yourself if you think they are so OP after all we live in the epoch of loneliness. But it's hypocrisy to get so loud about nerfing some ships and on the other hand stay completely silent about divisions. In fact i think that the reason the smoke nerf is coming is mostly due to division play. Usually a dd player smokes the other 2 usually a cruiser and a bb and all together harvest the enemy team of "average Joe's" So instead of nerfing the true source of unfair advantage here that is the divisions. WG want to nerf the smoke... As for your obsession you try to make a point by getting my worse and oldest tier 7 performances while deliberately leaving out my recent ones. So as you see with Algerie i do 38k with Belfast 41k so Algerie must be very OP , OR I may have actually improved in game in which case I actually DESERVE that kind of damage in Belfast and the more victories?

IT'S A TEAM GAME. It's not solo game. It's 12 vs 12 not 1 vs 1. So you put different elements together(ships), some weaker in some stuff but stronger on other stuff there is no ship that rocks in every situation and it also depends on how each would play a ship. If it fits the player's style. So you put all these imbalanced ships together and their combination creates a balance. So balanced teams are not teams composed of the same "cloned" element but composed of different elements that all together create a greater balance. It's just like Opera where harmony is achieved by combining those different voices together. How dull would it be if in Opera we had only 1 voice type... Do you really care about balance. If you would you would agree about REMOVING DIVISIONS FROM GAME because THAT IS THAT CREATES THE GREATEST IMBALANCE. Reason is that 3 competent players coupled together with ships made to support each other in 12 vs 12 are already the 25% of the team. So if supposedly 3 rank1 players join in a division they make one team quite stronger enhancing their individual odds too, also they usually communicate via teamspeak etc and this is an unfair advantage . Also in many cases they can get in with 3 dds and totally wreck game balance since one team may start that way with 1 dd and the opposite with 3 gaining all the caps from the start. but the usual winning combo from what i have seen also from twitch live plays is having a good CV player a good dd and another be it cruiser dd or bb. Perhaps the changes to smoke happen just for this reason. Cause usually the ones who benefit the most by it are the players of divisions where the dd player smokes the other 2 and they wreck havoc while he spots for them. So since you all care so much about "balance" and are not hypocrites, the very first thing you should be proposing should be the removal of divisions. That is the true problem and not "this stat and that stat" on a ship

To Capra76 and Cpt_Mooney and all the rest... You want to improve balance? Remove divisions from game from randoms at least. Divisions in randoms create a huge advantage. As for the rest... i see that when you say "balance" you get too focused on the tree and you miss the wood. Balance the way you say it would be to have the same exact stats for each cruiser dd or bb with the differences being the looks. That would be absolute balance. But it would also be very dull, boring, unfun. If you think some ships are so OP just get those ships. Simple. Each ship has it's usefulness though. And there is no ship that rocks in every scenario. And that is the beauty of this game. Ships are made differend on purpose , and perhaps some may seem better on all around play but may be crap on a certain situation. So the fun and the BALANCE is achieved in a greater dimension by COMBINING all those IMBALANCED lesser elements(ships) together into TEAMS. Do you understand now?

the thing is that this whole argument about Belfast being OP won't be around for much longer because with the upcoming smoke nerf and IFHE nerf the ship will become much weaker anyway, so the extra hate on it makes no sense. Same with Kutuzof. They will both get nerfed soon so there was no need to make a thread about how strong they are. It is , how to say... like kicking a horse that has already been death sentenced. The thing is that initialy in game i was in love with New Mexico so as i was moving to Colorado (before the upgrade of it) i thought it would be a good idea to buy Arizona as it was also in discount. Well Arizona now seems too slow so i don't play it as much any more. Later on in game i felt i could use a ship to make money. What ship to get. Many said the Muramansk but i hated Omaha style ships and the tier and after Arizona experience (not a bad ship just too slow) i wanted something more mobile but i didn't want to get to very high tier matches so Belfast seemed like a good idea at that time also because of IFHE. So Belfast was my idea of making credits and maybe train some english captain and perhaps also make some XP in order to be able to convert it into free XP if i see beneficial. I didn't get Belfast to be OP . I wanted a fast firing cruiser cause i have seen that they make more money compaired to slow fire ships. If it gets nerfed well i guess it won't be as good at making money then so i guess i won't be playing it much then. Not so big deal , i just wanted a premium ship to make some credits. And i got Belfast because lower tier has also lower repair costs, but as i said i didn't like Muramansk, Kransy Krim and the like... Am i to be thrown stones about that? What is my sin? But you know what i realised. I can make even more on my Hindenburg or Yamato i am close to get a Des Moines i have already unlocked Mosva but i don't see myself getting it, i am also grinding Ibuki to unlock Zao although i don't plan to get that either at least for now, i am at Neptune and soon i ll be close to Minotaur although with the smoke nerf perhaps i won't get that either. And i see myself in the distand future to get the Henry IV. So at the end of the day Belfast was just another fun ship that i was playing 1 or 2 matches per day. I used to play it more but nowdays is like 1 or 2 matches per day. I always do relatively well with that ship but i don't always win if that makes you happier to know, as it depends also by the team. Thats all. Forgive me if i have sinned. My sin was to give money to WG and get this premium ship. Of course it is logical to assume that since i was giving those extra euros and since i am not very rich these days and i have not so much space for investments i d better do a wise choice,therefore to get a good premium and not a crappy premium. After all i had some experience in game and i could realise i would probably suck at Atago or Prince Eugen (although i had positive experiences in Hipper that is the twin of Prince Eugene) , De Grasse (i see that as a small upgrade to La Galissoniere) and Duca d Aosta seemed also crappy although if i ever would want to invest more money in game i would probably get Duca maybe because i like Italy and lived there for a time and for me has a place in my heart. So of all these premiums the Belfast seemed like the best choice. If i could convert Fiji into a premium i wouldn't mind use Fiji as my credit maker ship. But i can't so Belfast seemed like the best option. Now you and some others hate my ship and want it nerfed because it is supposingly OP. Well it needs careful playing to perform etc if you would try it yourselves perhaps you would understand, now you consider it OP maybe due to bad experiences against it. And you want what? Get nerfed? Well probably it will without your thread. The upcoming change in smoke and IFHE will "fix it" for good so maybe do a bit more patience. You will be happy very soon. As for me well i won't be buying another premium for a very long time as i dont think any other worths the investment. I ll just stick with tier 10 matches since i can make credits there but to be honest i don't have so much need for credits any more since i have got pretty much all the ships i want. So at the end of the day i don't mind i bet i can have similarly good results with other tier 7s . I don't need Belfast so much. Perhaps i will switch to Fiji for occasional tier 7 matches or if it gets smoke nerfed i will get to York or perhaps Gneisneau (i see it as Scrarnhorst with better calliber but less guns) . But if after all the ship gets nerfed It will leave me a bitter taste in the mouth. That's all. I am sorry i made some of you feel threatened that by playing a couple of matches per day in Belfast i may improve my stats more than you see fit. Don't worry i got 5100 matches and with 49% ratio i need to play many many matches in Belfast to get where you are so please don't feel threatened by my progress. With the rate i tend to play Belfast we will probably all be dead of old age before i get near your stats with my occasional daily Belfast victory.

I ll show you a screenshot of an average match with Belfast where i actually got lucky and set them 9 times on fire. Yet the damage by that was only 20k. So if IFHE changes happen i ll be taking the skill nevertheless since without it i would do around 30k this match as most of my other shots would be shatters

WG, what a terrible nerf is this? I have been in matches where people would manage to score big hits against me on smoke while being undetected. So what happens is that the good players have gradually developed a "sense" of where to shoot in smoke etc to hurt you.So if you happen against good players (and I happen a lot for some reason) the smoke is only a marginal defense cause as I said a good player knows pretty much where to shoot you while you are in smoke "undetected". Now it will be even harder for cruisers especially the glass cruisers that for them the smoke was the only mean to survive. Well, at least I don't use the ships that NEED IFHE to perform any more sincei i have moved to hier tiers now that don't need that skill. and my ratio win/loss is crap because when i was grinding my way up in tiers the IFHE was not there for me. But I believe it was a nice skill to be around nevertheless. PS and an opinion of a guy on youtube i totally agree so i post it here "I don't see a need to change smoke. Smoke fields are torpedo magnets and are countered by radar and hydro. Also, spotter plane sniping makes it easy to delete squishy cruisers who think they are safe in smoke. Some say they slow down game play or stagnate matches. On occasion I see this happen for a short period, but as soon as torp spreads hit the smoke, ships leave and continue to move. Why does smoke need to nerfed? Some changes make me think the game is moving in the direction of 18th century musket infantry: everyone line up at close range and fire as fast as you can at the enemy until one side is dead. Skill level = 0 "

You are an amateur. The true professional way would be this: Make islands transparent and make BBs to be able to shot through them, it makes sense since BBs supposedly have "special radar" systems able to do such things. :P

And one more now from a player just to see how completly hilarious is that planned change you propose. He is called Culiacan_Mexico "Is this correct? An opposing Fiji smokes up and starts firing, I move my DD to around 5km, smoke up, them my team and I start firing. I can spot him from smoke, but no one on the opposing team can target me or break my spotting? Hydro doesn't help the Fiji, as it is too short of a range. That doesn't sound fun and engaging. Fiji Hydroacoustic Search Ship Detection 4.20km ST, smoke firing detection range 5.4km"

Hey Mister "supertester" Trainspite with the high stats... HotshotJimmy disagrees with you: "I have had 800+ games of pure love and hate in the Minotaur and all of these changes are going to completely ruin RN cruisers if they bring these into the game which if they are considering them enough to let us know they probably will in some way shape or form. Lucky the RN bbs are just around the corner! Oh well looks like the World of Battleships is coming to me too " And i am sure i can find other high stats players that think as i do, Then i guess that according to what YOU SAID you should submit to their views just for that. For example THIS ONE called robihr (some of his views here below) "my opinions on this change: Random battles: RN CL should have lower detection range.. at least 4.5-5km. their only defense is smoke. even dd has more survivability cause they dont have citadels. VMF DD or US DD can easily kill RN CL 1v1 from that range without being spotted. DD arent affected much/at all it is relatively bad change for CA survivability and only viable play for CA will be long range sniping (he spamming) BB arent affected much (around 10% of BB actually stay in smoke when i lay it out for them, other 90% just go through it) almost no teamplay (as if that existed in randoms) reduced impact of good divisions Ranked battles: DD gain supremacy in ranked (as if that was ever in question other CL/CA become totally shitty cause they cant contest caps anymore BB wont push anymore (as if they were pushing now ) and will just concentrate on sniping more selfish play from DD (no point in smoking when people will get detected anyway)" but since you throw me the glove on this i have a simple answer. My stats are mediorce because i hadn't properly realised game mechanics until much later and also when i was grinding some ships i had not the IFHE so i was doing crappy damage. Also never play on division with "slave-teamates" that are there mostly to "serve" me and support my play and since you wanted to compair so much you may beat me in random but i got better position than you in ranked . I am 9 and you are 15. But in general I play random games with the "average Joe" and this is a huge thing because it is a team game this one. Now perhaps my markmanship could use a little work, but that doesn't mean i don't know the game theoreticaly or that i can't vision how terribly the game is gonna change for worst with the proposed changes. Anyone would. In fact it is called COMMON SENSE. As for the CAPS i use them for EMPHASIS , to underline something i say , give it importance ,not because i "yell" or because i am furious or something. For the rest of your arguments i will answer one by one later.

1) On your first point. Well the way you put it if i have to sacrifice smoke to have the mediorce yellow bullets in Belfast i will gladly trade you those for the smoke+ Fiji's white bullets ANY DAY. OK? But i wan't Fiji's white bullets. Not the crappy white bullets i have in Belfast. I guess you know the difference if you are a supertester. Right? 2) Radar...well it's a gimmick that i rarely end up to use anyway. It is very situational i think. Most times i don't even need to use it. DDs are scared even if i don't use it they run away so it has a psycological effect mostly, but i would trade it for heal or i would like to have that option. Also the way ship's concealment is the dd sees it before if can see the dd so if you are "detected" it doesn't mean that you can press the radar and reveal anything. 3) Concealment is nice so do what now? Give it 12km will all skills and camo on? 4) Now about heal that is not essencial because Belfast has 35k hp is a joke right? 35k means nothing , it can be run out like water with couple of salvos. The ship is extreemly squishy. No other cruiser except Fiji has a repair... So what that means? Each ship was supposed to have its own flavor... Do you want to make all exactly similar? That would defeat the reason there are so many ship lines. 5) Well as for armor thickness Belfast i think is the worst of all cruisers, i have played them all and i can tell you that Belfast armor feels the weakest. 6) Guns are bad but with IFHE they are viable. But USN guns are much better and score more easy citadels and do more consistend damage... and... mr "supertester" you compair me apples with mushrooms here... The other tier 7 except Shchors have all 203mm guns. So quit that kind of argument. It doesn't "sell" . Give Belfast Pensacola's guns if you think they are bad. I d prefer them ANY DAY! 7) As for it's lenght is in the middle. So? NOT HAPPY STILL? Do you want to make it as long as Gneisenau? Will that make you satisfied? 8) You supposed to be a supertester and you don't have a complete ship knowledge. Jeeee. Well i have played all those ships i compare to Belfast except Graf Spree because at the time it was possible to acquire it through missions i was away. And about the Earth that is flat... argument , for me it is YOU that propose that the Earth is flat and of cousre i do not accept it. 9) You forgot to mention one final thing. The ship was premium for some reason. If it was the crap that you want it to become noone would buy it. Unless he was some very rich collector and a masochist. If WG proceeds in nerfing it the way you propose will be very very bad for their name, and their future premium ship sales. So take into consideration also this.

Has no torps, no heal, people are not afraid to rush in smoke (well some are but it's out of idiocy) it's extreemly squishy even more than, say, Fiji or Leander for some reason and the arcs of the bullets is strange somehow the white ones do not give you as consistend damage as the white of other RN ships. Only way to do some damage is IFHE and in fact i think even with the nerf i d still get it because its the only way cause i can't gamble with the already low fire chance it has and go for DemolitionExpert and hope i can get a fire that will most likely be extinguished after a while or healed back in total overtime. But the smoke is seriously game breaking about the whole line of RN cruisers and will render it unplayable or easy prey for bbs. Well we can all wait, i forsee in the future you will all apologising for your mistaken assumptions but will probably be too late since the damage will have already been done. Seriously do you want us all to play only BBs? If it is that just say so and leave all these unconvincing arguments about how OP smoke is aside (it isn't OP if you know how to play and in fact i get wrecked in smoke all the time, how have you missed that? You obviously never played the ship)

So you proposing in fact that people should pay money to buy (in truth) a Pensacola BUT with low caliber guns, larger arcs, lower innate fire chance, that can't even be enhaced through IFHE... Why would people do that? Perhaps change your topic thread in what you really want so that every Belfast/RN cruiser hater can spot it more easily. I d suggest you use something like: "Who else hates so much Belfast and the whole RN line that would like to see them all converted into Pensacolas but with smaller guns? "

I agree with OP. In fact i d say to remove completely fighters and replace those squadrons with triple health "spotter" planes without guns

This topic is pointless since soon both these ships will stop being viable for play as will also be the whole RN cruiser line not because of the changes to IFHE but because of the changes to smoke. I guess all will be playing battleships from now and on then. But the game will end too dull... Well was good as long as it lasted. In general on every game i have been at some point the developers do a huge change and ruin it . Then people abandon it and then they go bankrupt, then they try to get the game to what was before the change but the people are already gone and won't be going back. I am 43 years old i have seen it happen LOTS OF TIMES... So not so big surprise.

Stop nerfiing Cruisers. Nerf BBs instead.

I will not vote on this poll because these questions are missing the vital point. It is not about OP-NESS but about VIABILITY. What makes Belfast most OP? And you put "smoke" among those... Without smoke Belfast can't survive on the open as any RN Cruiser. As beta tester you should know these things but apparently you don't So is not about OP-ness but about viability. Now Radar is more of a gimmick i could trade that for a heal (depending on build if i would go for more damage/less utility). IFHE is also vital (in fact i initialy didn't get Belfast and i could easily kill it in my Fiji or my Leander but i got it ONLY AFTER IFHE came out ,because Belfast's white bullets are crap compaired to the other RN Cruisers, and despite the pros of this ship it still had its weak points like no torps and no heal and the PEnetrating bullets it has are the ordinary bullets and not the RN white bullets so if the Belfast doesn't have IFHE it is close to useless unless it gets very lucky with fires and hits targets already vulnerable that have used they repair As for the Kutuzov it;s again not about OP-ness but viability. Of course without smoke it would hurt a lot since it is made of glass but mostly for that ship i thiink IFHE is worse not to have cause on tier 8 you get against ships that even with IFHE you don't do so much

WG, what a terrible nerf is this? I have been in matches where people would manage to score big hits against me on smoke while being undetected. So what happens is that the good players have gradually developed a "sense" of where to shoot in smoke etc to hurt you.So if you happen against good players and i happen a lot, the smoke is only a marginal defense cause as I said a good player knows pretty much where to shoot you while you are in smoke "undetected". Now it will be even harder for cruisers especially the glass cruisers that for them the smoke was the only mean to survive. Well, at least I don't use anymore these ships that needed IFHE except for a Belfast that i won't be playing. It's also the end of British cruisers... But probably playing cruisers, in general, will be even harder as well. So i guess I 'll stick with my Yamato and in the meantime, i will have to seek for another game since I don't see myself sticking on this game just playing 1 ship for ever even if that ship is my beloved Yamato. I feel sorry mostly for the guys that have thrown their money to get a Kutuzov, at least I stayed away from it as if I "knew" the upcoming nerf.

Hi there. After recent patch 0.6.9 i noticed some strange problems that didn't occure before. 1) When I try to take a screenshot (from my final result page) using Print Screen button and then paste on my Windows Paint it only shows a black rectangle. 2) I have recorded some videos from the game that are able to be viewed using the game's world_of_warships.exe but now they just crash my computer 3) sometimes when i am about to enter a match i don't get into it ever i get stuck on loading screen. The only way to bypass it is close the client from task manager and rerun the game and then it manages to take me into the match, but that way i lose a couple of minutes of match start Anyone else had this?