VC381

For what it's worth, I skipped through a lot of the US line because I am lazy to grind and also because I really wanted big fleet carriers not crappy escorts. But I have to say, whatever your opinion of lower ships and the grind to get there, Lexington is still worth it. Strike Lex is great fun and has huge damage potential.

To be honest the main thing I learned from this review coupled with the Scharnhorst one is that Flamu loves armor. To me it comes off as really inconsistent the way he says Scharnhorst is the most fun and best thing ever and this is terrible, when the role they fill is so similar (cruiser hunting). So the guns on this are weak because they're the smallest at T6, but the ones on Scharnhorst are fine despite being not the smallest at T7, but the smallest BB guns in the game full stop? OK so the armor on this sucks, basically he's judging it on that which is fair enough but I can't help feel it's biased.

You're probably right, in some super-clinical lab conditions with all other things accounted for. But there are so many other variables in a real game. What tier are we talking about anyway? Strike Bogue or Indy is pretty stupid. US stock loadouts are decent all the way to 6/7, after that strike is the place to be. The maps are big enough that even the best enemy CV will have trouble covering everywhere you might go. It's just luck then, I send my bombers left you send your fighters right, oh look I get free damage.

How often have you even seen Benson C hull? My guess is almost never, I certainly haven't. And as I said T6 CVs can kill a T8 BB. It really isn't this ridiculous special case being up-tiered as a CV. It's hard work but you can make it happen.

Not really because Konig Albert can only put 4 turrets on a broadside so she's functionally an 8 * 12" gun ship, which is no different from the non-German T3 BBs (aside from the fact the German 12" was a bit more powerful but we'll let them have that). Also have you seen her range? Don't get me wrong the thing is going to club in the right hands, but no more than a decent BB captain just buying a South Carolina and doing the same thing.

Whoah chill man, they're talking about something completely different now, on Nagato!

Buy price is without modules, sell price for elite ships includes part of the price you paid for B hull etc.

Just to point out that the KGV and Iron Duke classes had their shell handling upgraded for heavier shells while the Orion class did not. Orion fired 1250lb shells, the other 13.5" gun ships fired 1400lb shells. So Iron Duke's guns fire shells of equivalent weight (and therefore penetration/destructive power) as the US and IJN 14" guns, but Orion's guns are weaker. Under the "RN went for bigger guns sooner" train of thought this difference in power could justify Orion at T4 (along with soft nerfs like worse turret arcs, shorter range etc.). The other reason is Orion is the lead of a class and signalled the arrival of the "super-dreadnought". The sort-of sisters Neptune, Colossus and Hercules are oddballs. There is enough visual difference in the rearranged bridge etc. that dates Orion as older and different to Iron Duke.

Well said both. Indeed a total reconstruction for something like the Konig may not have been likely but we're all dreaming and speculating in this thread, I thought it was an amusing tangent. No doubt the RN will get similar treatment for those tiers. The reason the US ships have real WWII grade rebuilds is because they had built fewer new ships and their allowed treaty tonnage covered older classes. Also because they could afford to throw money at an ancient ship (Arkansas, which is what our Wyoming B hull is based on) to modernise her and use her for shore bombardment.

They're just stating the obvious here. WG just took option two and showed it works. To be honest I wouldn't mind a fully accurate naval game but I also understand that has very low appeal. There have been some cottage developers that tried to make games like that (e.g. Distant Guns and Jutland) but they never really take off. The idea is great, then comes the realisation that the work required to make it actually good is enormous for a tiny market. And don't get me wrong, I find WoWs really fun! I know I can't always dedicate a few hours at a time to a game and the action is great given how good the game looks and how nice the ship models are. I would like a bit more realism but at the same time I'm happy that an arcade experience is available as long as it gives the right "feel", which most of the time it does. I was hoping Gaijin would tackle the big ships with their realistic armor models and simulator style but they've basically said "it can't be done" so meh, not interested.

Screenshot?

Yup, this benefits strike decks because your planes have "safe zones" over friendly cruisers.

Yeah, it's worth having a positive discussion about this. To be honest only Kaiser and Konig are missing historical hulls. But we have the premium Kaiser class at T3 which is accurate (and I think caused the main tree one to be deliberately as different as possible) and the stock Konig looks pretty good and close to her late WWI appearance. Actual upgrade possibilities, I don't think Kaiser and earlier ships would have been around very long. Koenig could have got a really major rebuild similar to the Italian BBs, remove the middle turret, put basically a slightly squashed Scharnhorst superstructure with 1 funnel, Atlantic bow and remaining 8 guns re-lined to 12.6". Also secondaries moved to turrets on main deck and casemates plated over. Bayern is the equivalent of QE. Just look at Warspite and imagine Bayern rebuilt as a slightly chibi Bismarck. WG chose to keep both funnels but I find this highly unlikely. The Graf Spee style bridge is also too small for a BB, the ship could take something heavier and more similar to the actual later German builds. That's my first thoughts on "what-its" for those ships.

Kongo is a battlecruiser and very much an anti-cruiser in that role. She's fast enough to get to the cruiser brawl at the same time as friendly cruisers (and crucially some time before enemy battleships, even higher tier ones) and has the HP to absorb some fires while front-lining against the enemy cruisers force. As others have said once you close to typical cruisers range she's very deadly. The accuracy itself isn't strictly worse than other BBs, I ran mine full secondary setup for a long time and never really missed the accuracy mod. But the targets at that tier tend to be small and nimble. Kongo is a ship I actually hope I get up-tiered with, because T6+7 cruisers are easier to hit and they can't stop 14" anyway (plus fewer overpens), it's still a lot faster than every BB it sees and the maps are big enough to really put that speed to good use.

Nah, Independence can do OK in Tier 8 games. Yeah you'll usually lose most of your planes by the end of it but you can still do a decent bit of damage before then. It's true T6 to 7 is a big jump in plane capacity but other lines have capability jumps and low points. It's not a reason to get preferential MM, just something you have to deal with sometimes.

Well, I think I used Free XP for the NM engine then did the rest normally (with range mod fitted). For me the ship was a beast even stock and only got better from there. Plus those cage masts are gorgeous so I enjoyed that look while I could.

Well yeah, those planes are T6 so no surprise they dominate lower tiers, Zuiho gets a pretty sweet deal there. I'm just saying that if Hiryu can manage T9 with them Ryujo can manage T8.

Maybe they need a small change but strike is fun and strong at the moment. You don't need your opponent to be incompetent, the map is big he can't be everywhere at once and his fighters can't chase you because they will get wrecked by friendly AA.

It's not that bad, you can get a few good strikes in if you know how to pick your targets and you can probably make a bigger difference to the game than most other T6 ships in a T8 game. Especially now T8 games can't have more than 1 CV so you won't be getting clubbed by a Shokaku, and number of top tier BBs in a game is limited you will always have targets. Tirpitz is usually a sitting duck to air attack, as are Amagi and Nagato unless specifically AA-spec but those aren't as common. Just stay away from NC and cruisers and you're fine. And remember Hiryu sees T9 games with the same TBs as Ryujo, and even that's do-able. CVs don't really need preferential MM, 6 might be a slightly worse tier but it's all part of the grind.

I would say Omaha is a playstyle thing but the OP doesn't have enough experience to judge what his style is. Basically what everyone else said, either accept it's a strong ship and learn to play it or see if a different line suits you better. It's OK to say you don't like a ship even if it's strong (I skipped Omaha but I'm one of those apparent weirdos that actually consider Pensacola a huge upgrade on Cleveland) but you need experience to make that call. But if your reaction to doing badly in a ship is to skip it I have bad news for you no matter what tree you choose. Ships get better but enemies get better faster, especially those who take the time to grind and understand how all ships work.

I like the suggestions but I would think Graf Z and Aquila are more like T7 CVs, they're closer to Hiryu size/capability than anything else. Plus if premium better put them a tier lower just in case they're bad :p

I was thinking about how Saipan was made unique by giving her higher tier planes but smaller air group and how this expands possible options for future premium CVs. In particular I was thinking of the opposite arrangement, a premium CV with lower tier planes but much larger air group than normal CV of same tier. I believe this is the only way we can see the big pre-war or early war CVs with historical air groups. Otherwise these ships have no place in the tree as it is and that's a shame. For example: - USS Yorktown 1942 at Tier 7 using only T5 and some T6 planes but with hangar capacity and squadron setup similar to T9 Essex. - USS Saratoga 1933 at Tier 6, using similar squadron setup as Lexington, actually more planes probably, but with all biplanes (Langley planes). - IJN Akagi 1941, similar to Yorktown T7 take squad setup from Taiho but only T5 and T6 planes to make air group historical. There are of course more possibilities. What do you think? Viable? Desirable?

I kind of assumed the OP knew this already, but yes this is very important. Unfortunately it also leads to the UI de-selecting your squadron if you click too often.

Yup, which is why I said if the CV size and plane capacity makes her T8, put her at T7 but make the planes T5 to satisfy the "lots but die like flies" as you say. I wouldn't find that not fun, quite the opposite. It might have more consistent damage output and be more fun and less frustrating for all sides compared to now where either AA kills everything CV is sad, or AA kills nothing BB is sad. EDIT: note I don't actually have anything against main tree ships being un-historical. I'm happy they are meant to represent a class as a whole including how it may have evolved past what it actually did. But premiums are deliberately chosen as a specific ship at a specific point in time and marketed at those who have a historical interest in them. So for premiums I expect more effort to go into accuracy.

Probably not, you have to put the circle down and quickly drag the tab before your planes lock in :S not ideal.