VC381

If it's going to take you 800 games to earn the free XP for Mo, then assuming 200k silver net profit per game (probably a low estimate with premium), you would earn 160 million credits by the time you unlock it. At that point, what exactly do you need a credit grinder for? I'm not judging those who would pay for it, or grind it or whatever. I'm not saying that the cost is absurd in an absolute sense. All I'm saying is, if you have the resources to acquire Missouri (in whichever way), I don't see how you can still need her main selling point. Even the time argument doesn't completely hold. If you wanted a ship you can't afford and don't have much play-time but are willing to pay $100 to get said ship, doing it indirectly by "buying" Missouri to grind the credits will take up more of your valuable time then buying $100 worth of doubloons (about 30k?), turning it into silver (45 million) and playing the ship of your dreams immediately. If time is that tight, it will be a very long time before Mo earns you more silver than buying it direct.

I think there is still a good distinction between the gunboats. US DDs are generally more "in your face" ships that have the agility (supported by turret traverse) to brawl while contesting cap and hunt other DDs. They're really about volume of fire but their flip-side is that shell arcs make guns unreliable at long range. Torps are quite good. I'm told by a reliable source that Fletcher is the best ninja-torpedo-boat in game at the moment (go figure). The Russians are basically the opposite. Guns perform great at long range, they are basically the DD snipers. They are also crazy fast. They pay for it with bad handling, both ship and turrets, which makes it hard for them to be useful at close range. They're designed for quick map reaction and drive-by shooting (and making unaware cruisers cry with AP). But their torps are basically useless except as a suicide/desperation move. The Germans, not so sure. Seems they are the new "balanced" DDs, bit of power creep as well. Even the rebalanced IJN "gunboats" still carry the flavour of trading DPM for Alpha. To be honest, I don't mind the slight blurring. Splitting DDs into gun or torpedo ships always felt artificial as most of these ships were designed to be balanced IRL. I think the flavour is less clear on paper but they still have a "feel" to them. Guess you just need to try them all!

Oh wow, I missed the "in a single battle" part. I don't really care about doing it (the only reward I need is the 1 million from part 3) but that is a pretty silly mission...

I was also thinking that the Albacore and Barracuda (and indeed even the Swordfish) were both TBs and DBs as needed. Also what I really want is this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackburn_Firebrand Shame it turned out a bit crap IRL but it looks awesome and the concept is awesome. High performance fighter... Strap a torpedo to it! Yeah!

Hmm... I would be more tempted to have Hermes as the silver T4, Eagle as the silver T5 and Courageous as the silver T6. Courageous is a pretty big ship, her aircraft capacity only limited by lack of deck park. Using late war deck park numbers solves all plane capacity issues (Illustrious ~70, Implacable 82) and can be extended to T6 even if IRL the ship didn't survive that long. 40+ planes on Courageous would be believable and balanced. As for "flavour", my pick is flexible reserves. The RN loved designing multi-purpose planes and many types were both DB and TB, with a few as fighter/DB and one actually being a fighter/TB. The way I see this working is you can launch Fighter or TB or DB squads but the reserve is common, so you can't run out of one until you run out of both or all that share a physical plane type. Or the respective types turn into (slightly worse) fighters after they drop their bombs/torpedoes. The flexibility can be balanced in the context of fewer total planes and/or smaller strikes.

The calculations are nice but in perspective, as I said, if you have 600k+ free XP gathering dust you also probably have a mountain of silver and don't need a money maker. If you don't have the free XP and are willing to pay to convert, the full price of Mo could buy you 45 mil credits straight up, you could buy two T10s without waiting a single game longer. Or you could buy 3 different T8 premiums. Or premium time for nearly a year and a half. Even if I had 800k free XP lying around I wouldn't spend it on a single ship no matter what it was, I would save it and just research a whole line next time one is released. Whichever way you spin it, it's a staggering investment in just a single ship. There is no opportunity cost factored into those numbers.

Might I just point out that the three colour camouflage is historically correct for Missouri, the fact it's been around as a premium camouflage on Iowa I guess was just an older decision by WG because it looks awesome (and because the tech tree ship represents the class as a whole so I guess it's not "wrong"). Also the actual model for Missouri (masts, electronics) looks to me like Korean war fit, not WWII, but we'll forgive them that as we have quite a few other 1950s ships in game. It does make an odd situation where a top hull Iowa with premium camouflage is a more historically accurate WWII Missouri than Missouri herself... Anyway, nice detailed review I imagine the cost is prohibitive for most people. The kind of people who might have that much free XP sitting around are also likely to have more credits than they can spend, so I see it more as a show off reward for those who have been playing for a long time.

I suppose you're right that the steps in both lines are now quite gradual but is there really enough to put something between normal Akizuki (which as you say is already late-war, all fitted) and Kai-Akizuki? I just think T10 needs to be something really special, a proper final step. Kind of like Zao. Kai-Akizuki is more like Ibuki.

good job sir! Konigsberg was my first ever Kraken, I have fond memories of that ship too. Glad you found something that suits your style, and it's also good to hear some positive feedback on cruisers for once.

That isn't really what I meant. I meant a combination of turning up where you need to be unexpected and flanking to give the enemy a hard choice. Yes DDs are stealthier but also more predictable due to caps etc., if you can't see a DD you still kind of know where he is likely to be but a cruiser can really be anywhere. Stuff like baiting enemy BBs to go tunnel vision on you and have to give broadside to your team or ignore you and take free damage. I didn't mean HE spam at all, in fact flanking BBs with AP is probably better, especially with US cruisers.

I don't mind people stat whoring, I have nothing to hide. Thanks, but please don't hold it against me that I don't have a lot of time to play. I'll get more T8 cruisers eventually Maybe I got too annoyed, I mean, things can always be better, but I'm happy with my cruisers either way. Well, not gonna argue with your experience in cruisers (in fact I've learned a lot from your posts in other threads). I tend to take a very self-critical view though. Of course I have games where I get randomly deleted but my reaction is always to assume I did something wrong in that situation rather than blame the ship or the game. I'm happy with the power level of cruisers from the point of view of my own performance in them, so I'm just a little surprised that your performance is much higher but you still find a way to say the class is weak.

OK, this might depend more on the specific CA but if you have good rudder shift and turning circle, at 16km a BB basically can't hit you as long as you watch when he's firing. Putting yourself in crossfire is a mistake you can make from being too aggressive, but as long as all enemies are shooting at you from the same angle you can dodge for days. In fact, playing on the damage greed of BB players is a fantastic use of cruisers, and the game even rewards you for it (potential damage). This is what I mean by position advantage. Think of what your team can gain when you make enemy BBs rage and tunnel vision trying to get you. You can hold a flank outnumbered 1v3 or more if you know how to bait and kite in a cruiser.

Actually, doing damage in a game where the win condition is capturing an area is not that important. Sinking ships helps the objective but is only a secondary win condition. Forcing ships out of position, making them tunnel vision and wasting their damage is often good enough in the context of a "Domination" game. Doing lots of damage is also less important than doing damage to the right targets at the right time. Capping, aside from supporting your DDs, can be done if you co-ordinate with a ship that has smoke or make clever use of islands on some maps. There is a very fine line between being safely aggressive and reckless. With cruisers that line is a knife-edge. Cruiser play is hugely demanding from a map awareness and multi-tasking point of view. Many people like to complain about "stray shells" that take out most of your HP. Yes, there is a random chance this will happen, but this chance is very low if you take all the necessary precautions first. Always know where the enemy BBs are and who they are pointing their guns at, check between every salvo, before every turn. A good cruiser at 15km is as slippery as a DD, you won't get hit if you plan your dodges. And losing half your HP or more in one hit isn't the end of the game. Remember there is a random element to all this. If you do everything right and still take a ton of damage halfway through the game, good chances are you can play out the rest of the game just as aggressively as before and it won't happen again. Your HP is a resource, only the last point matters. Everything is about calculated risk.

She has much wider lines, only getting narrower closer to the extreme bow/stern.

All three ships share the same beam (maximum for Panama canal locks) and South Dakota is the shortest. So short answer (pun intended)... yes. Slightly concerned about the shape of the bow, looks a little bit too narrow and sharp, but overall not a bad model. P.S. the weird prop arrangement was because of an idea that the outer shafts (and their skegs) would protect the inner ones from torpedo damage.

Sorry but, I disagree. Because I'm lazy (see below) I'm gonna copy (edited) a post I made in another cruiser thread. For me there is just so much exaggeration and mis-information regarding cruisers. I've played over half of my 1500 games so far in cruisers. No, I don't do it "for the challenge" or because I'm a masochist. And no, I'm not a top 20% player. I'm a mostly average player who actively enjoys cruisers for what they are and who does well in them, no black magic. It's really not that hard. Maybe it's just a playstyle/preference thing but cruisers are so far from pointless I just have to call you out on that thread title. I feel that cruisers can and do make a big impact on the game. Statistically, if you plus one enemy cruiser AFK, you win rate will be 50%. There is always a cruiser on the enemy team. If your win rate is <50% in cruisers it's not because cruisers are too weak overall, it's because you played yours worse than the guy on the enemy team played his. It's just that simple. If you do your bit well then it doesn't matter what the other 23 ships in the battle are or what they're doing. Cruisers are the only class that can do everything and anything as the situation demands. Being jack of all trades is NOT a weakness. For me they have a gameplay variety and comfort unmatched by anything else. And contrary to popular belief, a small number of cruisers can and will swing a game if in the right place at the right time. It's not about raw power or damage, it's about position, timing and control. Sure on your own you might not always do much, but you're the "unknown". You're the force multiplier, the cavalry just in time, the ace up your team's sleeve. For me, that's the thrill of playing a cruiser! So to cover your points: Ensure victory - absolutely, you just need to do it right! Doing damage - depends on game, but ultimately not important. But you're still vastly underestimating their damage potential. Capping - yes you can, if you use islands smart and co-ordinate with DDs. More importantly, supporting your DDs can deny cap. And re-capping late game can be crucial and game-winning, a BB can't do that if your team is low on DDs. Fun - for me at least, nothing in this game is more fun! But, that's just my humble opinion I guess. I could write a more detailed reply to counter all of your points but I won't now because I'm getting tired of pi**ing against the wind in these cruiser conversations. If you don't like cruisers then continue to whine away, just be aware not everyone agrees with you. It makes me wonder, if you actively want to play cruisers so much that you can write a post that long and detailed to basically ask for a buff, why you haven't spent that time and effort actually playing more different cruisers (you seem to only have played German which is really skewing your perception) and actually getting good at the class you want to play.

Thank you very much for the review, makes her sound solid! To be honest, I just want her purely because she's a correctly modeled early war Fubuki with three of the right 'A' Type turrets. How long it will take me... that's a whole other issue. I just hope the campaigns never expire.

Awwwww yeeeees however, they better stick an actual realistic and historical camo on her before release. This will do:

I try not to get annoyed on these forums but there is so much whining, exaggeration and mis-information in this thread it just got to me. I've played over half of my 1500 games so far in cruisers. No, I don't do it "for the challenge" or because I'm a masochist. And no, I'm not a top 20% player. I'm a mostly average player who actively enjoys cruisers for what they are and who does well in them, no black magic. It's really not that hard. Maybe it's just a playstyle/preference thing but I'm not feeling any uselessness or signs that tombstones are needed. Even with low cruiser numbers recently, I still feel that you can make an impact. Statistically, if there are 5 BBs on each team and you plus one enemy cruiser AFK, you win rate will be 50%. There is always a cruiser on the enemy team. If your win rate is <50% in cruisers it's not because cruisers are countered by BB spam (or whatever other meta excuse you want to use), it's because you played yours worse than the guy on the enemy team played his. If you do your bit well then it doesn't matter what the other 23 ships in the battle are. Cruisers are the only class that can do everything and anything as the situation demands. For me they have a gameplay variety and comfort unmatched by anything else. And contrary to popular belief, a small number of cruisers can and will swing a game if in the right place at the right time. It's not about raw power or damage, it's about position, timing and control. Sure on your own you might not always do much, but you're the "unknown". You're the force multiplier, the cavalry just in time, the ace up your team's sleeve. For me, that's the thrill of playing a cruiser!

The ship itself is awesome. My problem is with the map design at this tier. The choices forced on you by island placement in such a slow ship are just too punishing. Most of the time you need to make a decision on where you're going with little or no information on enemy position or friendly intentions. You're just rolling the dice as to whether you will have targets or end up stranded and focused somewhere with no way out.

And the three (at the time) Kongos. Also I know Exeter got pretty beaten up at River Plate but so did Graf Spee, and her armor is unimpressive. I would think IRL one of the "full sized" heavy cruisers (e.g. Myoko) could go even with her. It would depend a bit on GS getting lucky hits before being smothered by the greater volume of fire.

I guess there are generally more CVs at that tier but not all of them know what they're doing. I don't have the points for either skill yet anyway, will see how many painful experiences I have by the time I do.

I am still leaning towards AFT so the secondaries are more useful as well, manual AA seems too specialized to get first.

Aren't all 16 of Dunkerque's 130mm guns DP? Manual AA looks strong on her at first glance.

What about the Soryu at T7?