VC381

Hmm, I would rather have more wartime destroyers in the middle tiers even if chronologically they were built after the (assumed) T8 Tribal. O/P/Q classes at T6 and J/K/N classes at T7. You might also get a somewhat more consistent line if you skipped Tribal altogether and put L/M class at T8. But I think there will be pitchforks and torches if they did that... Can I also point out HMS Cavalier is sitting in Chatham harbor and is therefore prime premium fodder (but in actual WWII fit), probably T7 depending on soft stats.

While I'm generally on your side with the realistic hulls issue and agree the game could be tiered much better, unfortunately it won't matter what we think. Most players want a good game and probably care more about awesome ships than real ships. I'm slightly guilty of this as I'm a fan of some of the projects (the real design, nearly built variety). Having said that, so much of this game is "what-if", with everyone fighting everyone, that after a point it doesn't matter. It is a shame that many real ships might not make it into the game because they would all be the same (low) tier, but at the same time you have to admit that the 1930s and WWII were a pretty boring time for battleship design and big gun naval warfare. The only way to make it interesting and balanced is to pad it out. The only way to get what you guys are after is to make a completely separate WWI game.

To me Dunkerque has always felt like one of the most accurate BBs and I don't feel anything changed recently. A few days ago I got a triple citadel at 16km. Just keep playing, you're probably on an unlucky streak but that can happen to any BB.

I'm assuming Kai Akizuki at T9, will be a bit boring but basically slightly bigger, faster Akizuki with probably one x5 torpedo launcher. What about T10? Anyone aware of any fascinating concept drawings WG could take inspiration from? Akizuki+++ with a 5th turret? Any other DP or AA destroyer designs that could fit the "gun" flavour of the second line?

It's not uncommon for T7 ships to get overpens on T5 and 6 cruisers even straight through the hull. The flat trajectory of Gneisenau guns doesn't help as even a narrow miss will make the shells go just above the citadel and straight out the other side of the target. Actually because of this getting closer can make overpens more likely (note I don't have the Gneis but I know Tirpitz has same guns and I experienced this sometimes also with Nagato, 16" will just do hull overpens on broadside Nurnberg at 7km). I totally understand the up-tiered thing, I had exactly the same feeling with Kongo although that is more because I think the small low tier maps don't let you take advantage of the speed properly.

Nice find, thanks. Makes want to go take my Scharnhorst out WG should try to mimic some of the sounds better. The gunfire got improved a few patches ago but can always be improved more. Also, we need more flash and smoke! Look at that vid, the ships are covered! Finally, we need that narrator voicing the German ships. Just the way he says "Scharnhorst" gives you chills.

You're right on the lazyness, they could call it Fuyutsuki and that would be it. Maybe giving it F3 torps plus being able to use the T9 upgrade slot will make it different enough, I didn't think about how similar Kagero and Yugumo are. Then Kai at T10. Ok you persuaded me, that's probably the best solution but could be seen as boring.

Guess we would have to generalise from a small sample for Italy but if we go with inconsistent shell manufacturing their dispersion should be all over the place. Also armor on the old rebuilt BBs is very much on the thin side. The armor of the Littorio class is solid on paper but hinges on some novel design choices and is up to how WG want to implement it, which leaves it open as a balancing tool.

Yes, in 2/2/2 Shokaku I sometimes have a bit of wasted time on other squadrons if I focus too much on one strike. Normally though my TBs and DBs never go anywhere alone, so it's more like playing 2/1/1 as long as I remember to shift-select the bombers in their respective pairs. I also take the time while my bombers are landing to admire my sexy ship... And then issue them a waypoint as soon as they are down (then watch them take off, if battle pressure allows). That way if I do need to suddenly focus on fighters and forget about the bombers I might have them circling somewhere random but rarely wasting time on deck. Fighters mess around in between, those usually split and end up cycling one squad at a time as required. Also multiple waypoints for planes are your friends.

Since we've basically agreed WWI dreadnoughts are all quite similar (and in any case they are low tier so there is a limit to additional complexity that can be added as they need to introduce players to basic BB play regardless of nation), let's focus on 1920s and 1930s philosophy that spawned most of the actual WWII ships plus any concepts that would be used to fill the gap. In this time IJN was obsessed with range. They had fewer ships than US so they wanted to make each one better. Part of the plan was if they had the biggest guns and tallest masts they could always shoot first and start to whittle down the US battle line before they came into range. Their fire control systems were horribly complicated and manpower intensive, including extra bits of equipment they invented that had no foreign equivalents. But arguably their optics and FC training were second to none for the period. Only RADAR beat them. So the IJN having the longest range and best accuracy at long range in game makes 100% sense. The Italians were stuck with having a huge coastline to defend with relatively few ships and even fewer bases. The solution they came up with was to make speed a design priority so they could build fewer ships (and each ship stronger) but still get where they were needed without having to be everywhere at once. They are also famous for sometimes running speed trials before mounting guns and other equipment and of course claiming ludicrous numbers. That's why I think any really speed focused line, especially anything involving some kind of engine consumable on a BB, should be Italian.

The Italians I imagine being somewhat similar to the Germans in terms of firepower but with different strengths to the armour layout: no turtleback but better decks and TDS, on the later ships at least. But I guess that's hard stats, if Affeks is talking about things like how consumables behave then we might be into anecdotes more than anything else. Having said that, if RN BCs don't get speed boost Italian BBs should for sure! Yes, I have a speed obsession...

Yeah, the flavour will be different at low and high tier. Isn't Warspite one of the most accurate BBs in game? IJN are more accurate than USN at long range (and they have the range). I think RN should be the most accurate up to medium ranges but lack very long range capability. Very much "engage the enemy more closely" but with more reliable alpha making up for lower survivability compared to other mid-tier brawlers (they may have awesome repair but don't hold a candle to US all or nothing armor and German turtleback). Basically high risk, high reward, repair, repeat.

Yup, there are definitely options but as you say sometimes it comes and goes. I even tried division with a friend in Shokaku and me in Kutuzov, I actually found and gunned down the enemy CV without getting a single plane kill of course the second I take out something IJN I'm swarmed with planes I can at best tickle slightly to make them miss... Anyway that mission's done. The issue is the mission depends too much on circumstance. WG said themselves they want missions to be a way for people to improve their play by trying to achieve something that can be challenging. For that to work the requirements have to a) be achievable by player skill not luck or time and b) encourage general good gameplay habits.

I tried the Cleveland spam but got weirdly unlucky with it. Saw very few CVs and although I enjoy the ship generally I was distracted by my frustration and played it very poorly. You're right though, that's probably THE ship for that mission.

Well, it looks like way to many guns on that hull. Anyway Zao drawings may be fiction but I believe the concept for a 12 gun heavy cruiser had some basis. This could be similar. Plus, if it's fiction anyway they can just take inspiration and balance it as needed.

Part 3 was easy and made me dust off CVs which I've been meaning to get back into. I don't have anything against missions with class restrictions, in fact they are officially meant as teaching, making people try new things, all good from my point of view. Parts 2 and 4 though are badly designed. 2 because good luck spamming cruisers until the mythical CV appears only to watch him spend all game sending planes to the other side of the map from you. I actually got stupid lucky with an enemy Hiryu that decided my Baltimore was worth three full strikes... Yeah... 4 because, WTF WG, why are you teaching DD players to do the stupidest and least productive thing they could be doing?

It's very difficult to set a "flavor" for a whole line because nations did make different ships and changed design philosophy. Biggest difference is between WWI and 1930s/WWII designs that basically flip a whole nation flavor on its head e.g. US from T8 on. I agree with Koenig though, if they wanted something really unique for RN they should do battlecruisers first with some wacky consumable (maybe not something that polarizing as RoF in exchange for detonation, but speed boost could be cool). The nations that didn't build many BBs would be all over the place as they often built small classes far apart with completely different tech. Hard to squeeze them into a consistent "flavor". That's why I would rather they didn't force it too much, better have more real and realistic ships

A concept IJN AA cruiser using the same guns as Akuzuki. Not sure if it's a real design, might come from the same series of sketches that Zao is inspired by.

An overgrown DD squadron leader / small light cruiser would indeed make a fascinating T10 but Agano is probably a bit much. But on that line of thought, are the 100mm still useless if you have THIS many of them? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/17421/B4AC91CAB4494A55B2F419641202F714.jpg

Except they already added 2 German lines here plus a third coming soon. That also makes sense as it covers the number one enemy (for eastern Europeans) and also the number one "guilty pleasure" nation, so two big birds with one stone for the player base. I think the issue with RN isn't hate but weirdly ignorance. Yes they were the "greatest" at the time but aside from a few high profile incidents that immortalised a handful of ships, I imagine people's knowledge of what the RN did, their many smaller ship classes and how they fought day to day is very much lacking. The Americans for example have made sure the Pacific war is widely publicised in detail. The game has to go for "awesome appeal" first and other nations have an equal number of "legends". The RN had a LOT of ships but many small and individually weaker than foreign equivalents. Their stories are great as was their contribution to the war but they don't have that kid in a candy store "I want one" feeling for most of the younger or less historically interested player base, especially in a game where ships are boiled down to basic stats and being the best in tier is everything.

Mogami is a unique ship in that it doesn't necessarily get "better" with upgrades, it just gets different. If you can put up with the bad turret traverse, worse rudder shift and lack of AA (and if you have a captain with Concealment Expert as Guillotine said), then the stock setup offers a unique invisible firing ability with a comfortable window and a huge volume of fire (15 guns every 11 seconds) with which to burn the world. Note that the detectability penalty when firing guns depends on the HULL not the guns, so you need the A hull, not just the 155mm guns, to be able to invisifire. Fully upgraded she's the same old IJN cruiser. The turret traverse is much better than Myoko and the gun angles are better but other than that it's the same 10 x 8". Also concealment is fantastic.

And armored like a Lion class BC without the speed awesome? Yes. Practical? Hmm...

See, that I completely understand, I was only talking about credit earning.

Not really an "achievement" but I nearly fell off my chair laughing. This screenshot is taken shortly after my FIRST salvo in this game. Yes, my damage done is the 100% total HP of exactly one enemy cruiser. When RNG smiles on you...

Do we really want to be rewarding DD players for sneaking around the map edge to snipe the enemy CV? I wonder how many games have been ruined already by people chasing that mission...