VC381

The newer T9s are all mature designs produced by their various nations and are very well implemented. They are all balanced in comparison to Iowa. So, move all T9s except Izumo to T10 and rearrange the rest of the line to suit (there are enough real classes missing to make this workable). I think losing Montana is a price worth paying although I also like her inclusion. As for leniency, I'm a big fan of "what if" and have a general interest in ship design including a bit of fantasy. But what WG are doing with most T10s is beyond plausible for me. Why is the line that's basically defined by having lots of guns topped with an 8-gun RoF-monster? Republique should have been a 12-gun BB. Why are the lines that consistently have fewer guns topped with 12-gun ships? Conqueror should have been balanced around the 18" setup with no switch option. Or Conqueror should have been the RoF based ship instead of Republique. GK Affeks covered it.

@Affeks well said regarding GK, nonsensical design decision by WG. The problem with T10 BBs and fantasy designs is WG made their bed now they have to lie in it. What I mean is, Yamato and Iowa should never have been different tiers. They didn't need to be, historical analysis agrees they were equivalent despite the size difference and they could have been balanced as such in game. The huge issue it creates is that while every major naval power had a mature design for a post-treaty, Iowa size/power BB, that was usually it. Deciding upfront that all T10s therefore need to be significantly above and beyond that size and power level was a terrible decision. The only way they can make T10s for every nation not US/Japan is to completely make them up, and they clearly can't be trusted to do that in a logical way. Not just GK, but Conqueror and Republique too, awkward fantasy designs that deviate unnecessarily from the line flavour.

If the sale ends Friday morning, there are only 3 ships left (Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday). I think Gascogne, Roma and Abruzzi are too new, this seems to be more older/classic premiums. - Alabama or Kii maybe - Blyska, Dunkerque, Arizona all quite likely as well IMO - Tirpitz finale I agree

The cone thing may be correct but it's a needlessly complex explanation. Basically dispersion increases linearly but it's not 0 at 0 range, so that's your inconsistency.

Called it! InB4 someone says "low DPM"... One of my favourite and best performing ships, and that was before the buff. However, I understand general opinion runs counter to my experience so make what you will of my recommendation. A very versatile and forgiving (for a cruiser) ride. Gun handling is superb in every way, traverse, angles, muzzle velocity. And AP hits really hard. But it's a ship you can't be lazy in, you need to be always hunting, switching target, switching ammo, or you won't achieve anything. It's a raider after all. Also, I completely agree that given the sheer number of premiums now in the game, they are individually too expensive. I even made a whole thread about it but it got a largely negative response. Oh well.

Ahh... Atago. my first premium, still my most played ship. Empire's finest, elite cruiser squadron flagship right there. Probably still the best T8 cruiser, top 3 for sure. I know half the people here seem to have a hard-on for reload/DPM and can't look past that one stat, but Atago has basically everything else (and even DPM if you count the ridiculous fire starting potential). I don't think she's been power-creeped at all, and that only shows how OP she must have been a little while ago before some other cruisers joined T8. If you have any interest whatsoever in the IJN cruiser line, Atago is tier for tier the best one there is by a country mile (OK maybe joint best with Zao). Also, she's very flexible and will happily train a BB or even DD captain. I know that's not necessary anymore (it used to be), but it just highlights the comfort and versatility of the ship. Prints credits too. To be honest, I know the sale has been disappointing for veterans but the last several days have just been one fantastic ship after another at excellent prices for new players to catch up on owning some strong classics that have been out for a while. I'm hoping they put something a bit more contentious on sale tomorrow so I'm not just here singing the praises of my favourites. I bet Prinz Eugen will be there before this is over, then I can have a nice little argument with someone

The key word there is "hit". Cleveland is super agile, I think the most agile cruiser at T8 currently and that's without foregoing concealment for extra rudder shift. Bait broadside, turn away, repeat. At medium range you can frustrate a BB (or even a couple if they're not cross-firing you) for ages.

I don't know, I played Chapa back when it could still stealth-fire and even that wasn't enough for me. I do find those high DPM ships fun but in Chapa I felt completely irrelevant to every match I was in, just sitting there farming my fires and getting high damage losses. Kutuzov, now that has the tools to carry with the same armament. Cleveland as well, but Cleveland/Eugen is about as apples and oranges as you can get in comparing cruisers. Love both but for completely different reasons. Something about Eugen just really clicks with me, it's one of my best performing ships overall (most games pre-buff actually) and I really enjoy what it does. I don't know, I never felt in any way held back by the DPM even though it is objectively low. The whole ship just does exactly what I need and want it to and I don't feel like I have to play a certain way or play around a weakness like I do in other ships. My Cleveland would like a word with you, as it seems it missed this memo.

Exactly this. I was going to write a summary but people have already covered it. I would have ended up sounding like a broken record anyway because of how I described Scharnhorst earlier. Excellent summary. Hood is one of my favourite ships in the game (which I'm really glad about because it's historically one of my favourite ships as well), and a lot of that has to do with the comfort and reliability of the guns. Sure, no spectacular chunking of enemy BBs, but then again, reliable penetrations on everything at every angle. I'm pretty sure she has improved ricochet like US CAs, so there's that going for her as well. Basically against BBs aim like you would in a CA, against everything else just go to town. It's just excellent, solid all-rounder and very fun. Having said that, I did get a glorious citadel + pens (total 30k salvo) on a Tirpitz of all things at about 17km, so sometimes it will surprise. @Redcap375 you need this thing mate!

Weird decisions, flavour and other things. Having lots of guns is the US "thing". Plus Dallas has other weaknesses like poor shell arcs and no torpedoes. Duca's guns may feel underwhelming at times but the hull they're mounted on is just sublime, plus with that muzzle velocity and AP you can cause hurt US 6" can only dream of. I love my Duca, I don't think 8 gun CLs at T6 are de facto weak. There are 8 gun CLs at T6 that work (Leander and her sisters are fine). But I guess an 8 gun US CL would have been too weak because the gimmicks that make those other ships work aren't appropriate in the US line.

Well, there is an argument that you can cause significant sub-system damage with superstructure hits, that later becomes decisive in the battle (see Belfast vs. Scharnhorst). But the other big factor is range. The reason people made bigger guns is because they fire further and are more accurate and retain better power at long range. IRL a heavy cruiser (assuming a daytime engagement) would easily score multiple decisive hits on a light cruiser before the latter could even respond. Same for a 8x 16" BB vs. a 12x 14" BB.

Impact is not about raw theoretical DPM but where and when you apply the damage. Eugen is on the low side theoretically but in practice you have a lot of helpful soft stats that prop up your output and make it very impactful. Staying power is not about living while everyone else dies, it's about being able to take risks to put yourself in a position where you can better do damage. Heal is the biggest enabler of that. It also enables drawing fire and kiting rather than hiding to save yourself. This is a very underestimated thing to do in a cruiser, as if you do it well you can have a lot of game impact from tempting enemies to tunnel vision on you. Game impact is about forcing the enemy team to react to you, taking the pressure off your team-mates. Damage alone does not win games. Then there's the AP. Situational, to an extent. But you also have a triple threat of long range, excellent muzzle velocity and fantastic gun handling (traverse and firing angles). Between those you can switch to punish people much more reliably than every other cruiser at T8. You play Eugen like you have ADHD, constant target and ammo switching. You don't need to top the damage charts on your team, just pop a 10k salvo on something at the right time to turn the tide on a cap. Even the HE, low as the theoretical DPM might be, is more reliable in reality than expected. 1/4 pen reduces the number of shatters, and again the range and ballistics mean more reliable hits on more targets. I would honestly say that on balance I consider the German cruisers to have the most versatile and comfortable armament set at T8. And I don't think Hipper's slight DPM advantage outweighs the sheer versatility you get from Eugen's heal.

Light cruisers built before the Washington treaty were indeed significantly lighter and less armoured than the treaty cruisers (Not yet called heavy). But the post-London treaty light cruisers (as defined by gun size) made a mockery of the name. They were more modern than the preceding "heavies" and basically better in every way except long range gunnery. The progression in game has somewhat been restored by moving treaty heavies to T7. The reason game balance has CLs as less well plated is because the RL advantages of larger gun calibre don't transfer well to the game mechanics, leaving CLs clearly superior.

Dallas is partly WG fantasy because the project it's based on was an 8-gun ship. It got upgraded to 10 in game and I guess they just blindly copied the Pensacola arrangement. Interesting point, the barbettes for all four turrets on Pensacola are actually the same diameter. The width restriction is more to do with how fine the underwater hull is around the magazines. Basically the turrets are that way around because it was the only way to make the ship as fast as was required without making it heavier. One of the early designs for the Lexington class battlecruisers would also have used this turret arrangement for similar reasons, with 14" guns.

*cough*Kronshtadt! Which actually kind of proves your point given how similar those ships are.

This depends on how often you play them. For example, I have one 19 point I play a lot and a couple of 18s I rarely play and am not desperate for the last point. It would be a huge waste for me to get extra 19s using elite XP because I wouldn't play them enough to make it back. Better get some 10s up to 12 or 14 to make my life easier on ships I actually play regularly at the moment.

WG did an article about the project Dallas is based on. I think it was actually a 4x2 ship but WG upgraded her to 10 guns because they thought 8 might be too weak. I guess they just copied the Pensacola arrangement for looks consistency at T6 without actually thinking about the design. Wouldn't be the first time.

Scharnhorst is very fun, I would recommend too. It's just so responsive, fast traverse, fast reload, zoom around the map and... ooh another target! *blap* It's ludicrously easy and comfortable to play, but it manages to not get boring simply because everything about it is so quick that there's alway something going on, something to do. It's like playing a BB on fast-forward. Or a BB made for people with ADHD. Occasionally the dispersion can get really frustrating but then you're firing every 20 seconds (or less with AR) so it makes up for it. Low alpha one salvo? No worries keep double-clicking and it rolls in. I've stopped using a secondary build on mine because 7.5km is s little *too* close (unless you're committed to a torp run) and instead have an accuracy and concealment build (actually using a cruiser captain initially). Mid-range AP DPM is your home ground. Zoom, spin, blap, repeat

Eugen with her HP pool, armour, heal and long range is pretty forgiving to play for a cruiser. However it requires a lot more work to do really well in as you constantly have to pay attention and switch ammo and target to squeeze the most out of what those guns can do. But there is the historical synergy so go for it if you like cruisers.

It depends what tier ships you want to keep and how elaborate your builds are, but most ships are fine with just a 10-point captain. I have lots of these on silver ships I kept because I like them. Quite a few of these are mission reward captains that were already 10-point so I didn't have to train them. I guess though, I haven't kept too many silver T9s once I've moved to the T10s so this may be harder for you. It is annoying but it's just how it is. The other thing you can do is buy a French premium BB. Every time you want to swap your captain, you start the retraining then play the captain in the premium ship (no penalties) to finish retraining. If you really want captains on both ships, you just need to train a new one.

Nice idea in principle, but it would cause too much screen clutter. I think it's not that hard to deal with durations.

Love at first sight! Managed to squeeze a game in before my Clan needed me for CB. I had to AFK the first 3 minutes (doorbell) and when I came back we were down 3 caps and a ship. Then this happened: If this is without the AP buff... holy moly if they buff it...

Basically what this means is half your salvos will be 9 citadels on the target you aimed at, and the other half will be citadels on the next map.

Yeah, they're a double edged sword because their sluggishness and reliance on RNG can make them very frustrating to play, especially if you like being reactive and/or making deliberate plays. But frustrating is not the same as difficult. Low skill floor, low skill ceiling, hence chill ships.

Not to be too pedantic, but Indy was sunk in Measure 22 not the 32 scheme we have in game, which she wore in 1944. As for switching, the USN ran variations on their measure 3x schemes. The same pattern could be used on different ships as Measure 31, 32 or 33 with dark/medium/light colour combinations respectively. The base scheme for most of the historical premium camouflages is Ms.32 and the alternative colours are taken from Ms.33. The only issue is they replace the wrong colour (darkest should still be darkest). Aside from that last point, the alternate colour scheme is more historically accurate on e.g. Baltimore than the basic one. I'm surprised you can fiddle with Arizona's colour though.