VC381

Yes you are right, I was just trying my best to think within WG's framework although I also think it's too structured and restricting. The thing is, you don't even need separate lines for this sort of thing given how different some ships within the same type are, I'm sure they could balance it if they wanted to. Scharnhorst will be the real test, that one is iconic and important enough that they have to include it, so they'll have to think of a way to balance her.

That's beside the point as far as I'm concerned, the designs themselves are very interesting and in many cases good looking! I'm not sure what they could have done with the Germans. The only thing to go on is the Z-plan and the only cruisers they planned there were the M class (6" guns, too small) or the P class (11" guns, too big). Besides, most German ships share a very similar design template (Scharnhorst, Hipper, Bismarck) so you can't complain they look the same... I suppose they could justify Prinz Eugen as a separate class (although probably reserved for a premium). Then again, they could have the never completed Seydlitz as the tier 8, which in all honesty has the same relationship to Hipper that Ibuki has to Mogami (basically a repeat class IRL, for some reason buffed and a tier up in game).

They are awesome and I only wish I had the spare time to grind the achievements out, so I am very unlikely to get them. If they were on sale as premiums I would snap them up. To all the complainers: nobody is forcing you to play them, ignore if you don't like! That is all.

Well, I had quite a bit more success since spamming HE. Not "double my total HP" damage numbers, but I'm enjoying the ship and feel I am contributing to the battles. Might also have something to do with me switching to a captain with SA and buying the detection range decreasing upgrade, now I feel like a ninja! In fairness I did switch to AP and blow a rather large hole in a Pensacola that put his broadside on show, now I understand when to do that I can make it work (usually the close range island peek-a-boo game). So thanks again for the advice

I'd like to hear your ideas about British cruisers (or link me to a more relevant thread where you wrote them before). If there are RN heavy cruiser designs that are competitive with the likes of Baltimore, Ibuki etc. then I would like to learn about then.

Personally I love paper and "what-if" ships but that's because I'm a massive ship geek and am fascinated by the technology and designs, especially those that were technically feasible and/or laid down but cancelled for political reasons. I think WG has done a good job of implementing them, and where they've gone completely fictional (Myogi refit, Roon etc.) they've captured the essence of that nation's design very well. I do kind of agree that the community needs to be careful with regards to talking about them as fact, but I for one have learned a lot about some obscure designs that I didn't know about. I think dumb people will be dumb, it's not that hard to Google the in-game ships and find threads discussing where they came from if they aren't real. Part of the "problem", if you want to call it that, is that the strict tier system creates requirements for ships of certain power levels that makes it hard to balance real designs. A navy might have half a dozen classes that fit the tier 3 power level, another couple that fit the tier 5 power level, and nothing that would really be balanced at Tier 4. So that forces WG to ignore heaps of perfectly good real designs and dig for a concept. That's a flaw in the system IMO. In my humble opinion, it would make more sense to set up the research tree based on type and construction order but have a separate rolling matchmaking rating with more than 10 steps. Also I wouldn't be so optimistic about the RN. I personally don't see how they could fill the upper cruiser tiers without WG outright inventing stuff, never mind actual concepts. Remember the Royal Navy in WWII stopped caring for making their cruisers bigger and stronger, only for making the cheaper and having more of them. Sure they have tons of classes and sub-classes but they're all really similar (see above). On the other hand they simply don't have a design (built or concept) that could be called equivalent to something like a Baltimore, let alone a Des Moines. Destroyers would be fine, there the RN did build classes across the whole in-game power curve. Battleships, fine up to Tier 8, possibly 9 (same as US). Carriers... again, tiers 9 and 10 would need to be paper ships.

OK I've worked it out now. I do like how the ship looks in plain grey but at least until I've trained my captain up a bit more it's not worth that XP loss. Shame, I would assume the ship itself should have the bonus and you can do what you like with the camouflage but oh well.

I've noticed in the "External" tab on the Atago that you can dismount the camouflage. I haven't done this partly because I'm worried it's permanent. Also, it associates the +50% XP gain buff with the camouflage, which I thought was weird. I can't find any recent threads on this, older ones just say you can't remove it. So can you remove it? Can you put it back afterwards? Is it just XP gain you lose? Do you keep the premium gold gain? Question overload!

The rest of the hull and the fact most of the 6" secondaries are still there is consistent with Hiei. The ships shared a hull after all, just Hiei was re-built differently. But yes you are right, the in-game model has the extended upper bow curve that Hiei didn't get. I think we can forgive them that.

Nope, we just have it modeled after Hiei not Kongo herself.

I've been using this as a guide: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/44550-guide-to-captain-skills-distribution-in-053/

OK thanks, just wanted to check it doesn't do something stupid like make me buy it again to get the camo back. TBH the XP increase isn't that relevant because you have to pay to convert it anyway, or does it affect the captain XP gain as well?

Also, I've done some digging at it appears our Tier 7 Shchtors might be the Project 65: http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc316/Novgorodsfleet/data%20transfer/Project%2065_1_zpsudtejbnw.png~original

So it is, you learn something new every day

I count Yorck, Roon and Hindenburg, which one of those was a legit Kriegsmarine project?

I'm going to say something controversial here to all the guys moaning about paper ships and/or the RN tree. The German tree has 3 ships which aren't even "real" paper ships (actual projects not built) but pure WG fantasy. Which BTW is not a complaint, I think they've done a good job of capturing the essence of German ship design of the period in these ships. And what do you expect RN cruisers are going to be? Because historically the "best" cruisers they had in WWII were the County and Town classes, with all the later light cruisers being essentially Town repeats that if anything get "worse" (the last sub-class, Minotaur, having only 9 of the same 6" guns instead of 12). The County is a mediocre treaty cruiser and is at best a Pensacola/Myoko equivalent, so Tier 7. The Town class are essentially Cleveland equivalents in combat power so Tier 6. Which means the RN cruiser tree will also have to fill Tiers 8, 9 and 10 with paper ships, unless you want the post-war Tiger class which would be very awkward to balance (only 4 guns but crazy ROF). Personally I am excited about this. I like the design of Russian ships both built and not and I think WG has done a good job of mixing real and "never were" ships. So quit the complaining, chill out and enjoy the show!

This is undoubtedly the case some of the time but not always. I've learned a lot reading this thread, particularly the effective ranges (I was firing between 10 and 12 km mostly, which seems to be where AP shells are at their worst). I will spend some time alternating shell types and seeing how that goes.

I'm not complaining, since she's a gorgeous ship, I just want to get some discussion and opinions as to why WG chose to model the Kongo class hull upgrades as Hiei specifically. To give a bit of background, Kongo, Haruna and Kirishima all received very similar modernisations in the 1930s but Hiei was a demilitarised training ship due to treaty restrictions. When she was reactivated and rebuilt, her refit turned out a bit different to her three sisters. One of the reasons was to test the layout of the future Yamato class bridge tower. She's therefore easily distiguishable. It just seems a funny choice when the lead ship is more obvious and the look is shared across more of the class.

See, I'm absolutely fine with that advice and if that's the case I'll do it. But if this is what's needed, why does every single guide/review of the ship say "great penetration with AP, easily citadel all cruisers not Tier 10"? I thought in general you use AP on ships of same size, HE on things you can't pen (or overpen).

Ooh, I didn't realise that, quite interesting. I guess the AA argument makes sense especially since those ships got extra 5" guns as well. You raise good points, what's this about named year ships? Was the tree developed like that before switching to generic A hull B hull upgrades? I guess on the same note we could discuss why the Colorado doesn't have the "final" refit in the style of West Virginia, that would be a huge change! I wonder if this is on the cards at all.

To be honest, random is not consistent but it is frustrating. Most games that have some form of RNG deliberately limit the randomness so that it's not possible to get completely screwed one way or the other. Simplest way to do it is cap it e.g. guarantee a fire on the 20th hit if none have happened randomly before then. I actually consider this sort of fake randomness with a bit of forced consistency more fair and less frustrating in gameplay terms.

Well, in real life the hybrids ended up being the worst of both worlds but in game we can waive the plane retrieval issue and just make up some stats for the seaplane fighters and bombers. I wouldn't mind if they ended up being a bit unrealistic if they were there in concept. But, as has been said, huge IF. Mainly because the control setup is so fixed for guns or planes. I guess the best compromise would be to have completely AI controlled squadrons (so they would be not as good as actual CVs, fair enough) basically as consumables, Y for a fighter squadron that just patrols own ship, U for a bomber squadron that attacks current target etc. The current crop of Tier 10 cruisers (I'm not there yet but from appearances) have huge DPM. Something with 12" guns would have more or less BB reload times, but with insufficient penetration to be competitive against BBs without being dropped down the tier list until they mess with other things (history as mentioned). It's possible they could be balanced as cruisers just based on low DPM?

Well, I just tried what you said, my two cruisers saw a pair of Konigsbergs and a Karlsruhe and turned tail. One almost rammed me but I chose to sacrifice a shot from rear arc to avoid him, fortunately my front guns deleted a Konigsberg and it just got better from there. Need to practice, this battlecruiser rush thing is fun!

I probably already know the answer to this but I want to hear your advice. I've been playing the game about a week and love it, I've unlocked the Kongou and I have a good feel for playing the fast IJN BBs with long range guns (I'm one of those masochists that actually enjoyed the Myogi). I've been toying with the idea of getting a premium ship to help me along and the sale has nudged me. I think the Atago is the obvious choice but I'm worried I'll just get wrecked if I jump into Tier 8 games with essentially only Tier 5 experience. I love the ship, it looks epic and from what I read would suit my playstyle just fine, I just hope I can handle the learning curve. Now the Ishizuchi is very cheap, I imagine it plays like a Kongo but with shorter range in exchange for better DPM? I want it, because I love battlecruisers but mostly because it's so cheap and seems more forgiving with all those guns. But I'm not sure if I would actually play it instead of my Kongou, which I plan to never sell, it seems they're very similar ships. Is it significantly better in some way and/or makes tons more money to make it worth it? What do you think, should I open my wallet to WG with one of these?