BillydSquid

Probably a mix of the Vanguard and Lion, given the Vanuard was the last BB actually developed by the RN I wouldn't be surprised if Vanguard was a T8 premium given it's status as the last BB the RN launched before the age of BBs finished, she'd sit well in T8 vs Tirpitz and Bismarck given that's whom she was designed to take on.

Which would actually make sense if WG hadn't broke CVs and nerf'd DDs into the ground. The game doesn't reward them for doing it, WG simply removed any reason for them NOT to do it.

No, this addresses few of the underlying issues of CVs, I mean honestly, is anyone suggesting T10 CVs are weak? They might not be as powerful in as they were before the CV nerfs direct and indirect ones, but they're not exactly weak. no tutorials interface problems poor economy useless fighter load outs bad captain skills lower tier CVs getting up tiered, their strike wings looking like they've run into a blender vs high tier BBS, disabling manual torpedo drop in low tiers so players never learn how to use the tactic. (completely stupid IMO) ^ CVs as a class have some deep underlying problems that buffing damage won't fix, or they'd already be played more than they are.

Ha noooooo. There might be idiots in every class, but in a DD or CA/CL idiots don't tend to live very long, while in CVs they achieve virtually nothing and simply have their planes shredded by AA flak. BB, sit at the back and spam AP at another BB to farm damage or get lucky RNG hits regardless of sniping at 17+km. You can get away with playing like an imbecile. All the other classes are significantly less forgiving of mistakes and have a higher skill floor.

The accuracy increase is more to do with the number of shells per salvo, Freddy and the Kurfurst have exactly the same dispersion and sigma, Kurfurst just has more shells to lob at a target, 12 to Freddie's 8. The saying of throw enough of something at a wall and some of it will stick applies. Same with Montana and Iowa/ Missouri I'd have thought. I prefer maxed out secondaries on skills and mods. the only exception being not taking BFT, but saving the points for concealment expert; to get the Kurfurst detection down to 15km where the dispersion of the main guns doesn't have such an impact on play as inside 15km is effectively approaching mid range. I prefer to keep my secondaries maxed out and ready for when I inevitably run into a DD or get into a knife fight with a BB and we're both bow on. But I play things way too aggressively for my own good past the mid game point and usually end up taking a crapton of damage by the end of the game. I've even got a secondary build on the Yamato, it's not the most efficient at closer range given the glacial turret traverse, but sitting back in it sniping puts me into a coma it's so boring. But we're talking about an 18pt captain, here, whatever combination of T4 BB skills you take on Freddie or a Kurfurst it'll be disgustingly powerful.

Shhhh, I want to frighten the Tirpitz and Bismarck players.

I'd go manual secondaries, as the 60% dispersion buff is significant when combined with the other mods. AFT without manual secondaries is okay, but it's more like the 4th of July, spraying shells all over the place. If there were more CVs in the game, I'd say yes AFT should be prioritized, but with German BBs you'll be in close, so the ability to focus and direct your secondaries against a target is paramount. DDs will present a danger until you get AFT, but you have hydro and map awareness limits the ability to create and ambush. assigning manual secondaries becomes almost second nature after a time.

Tall boy bombs for the win! RN Aircraft carriers, ze German BBs would be terrified.

The difference between shot spread between 20km and 5km is small? Well that's a flat out lie. And if you've got higher tier ships you damn well know it. I can delete a Bismark in one broadside salvo from the Kurfurst at sub 10km range, I've done it, good luck pulling that off at 20km. The same with the Yamato the sheer power of T10 BBs outclasses any other ship in the game, and T10 CVs are the only thing which come close in their ability to take them on. Lower dispersion and larger targets have minimal effect of shell hit ratios? Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffft. Oh please, if you're going to make things up, at least try to do so convincingly. Torpedo soup doesn't exist. So you're talking out your arse again. It was a thing shortly after the CV nerfs which led to the Shima becoming the undisputed king of creating walls of torpedoes which were undetectable due to the lack of CVs, no radar to spot DDs and only German CAs having special hydro. Those days are gone. DDs now run a gauntlet of DD gunboats, CAs/ CLs, radar and Hydro to get in close to torp a BB. The same with stealth HE spam, the Zao was the undisputed king of this, those days are gone, if you've blundered into CAs acting as a wolf pack, that's your fault or you got outplayed. Because that's one of the few ways CAs and CLs can take on a BB directly. RNG is always going to be part and parcel of the game, unless you're going to buff CA and DD accuracy in line with BB accuracy/ dispersion buffs. At which point the BB lobby will lose their minds and screech about OP CA/CLs perpetually setting them on fire with no chance to maneuver effectively to reduce damage in a 50,000+ tonne battleship. If you want to open that can of worms have at it. Now as to as to CVs, I take it you ignored the laundry list of problems which I stated CVs have? Because not one of them said "herp a derp buff CV damage"

No he doesn't really, because we're nit talking about a straight power increase as it would disproportionately benefit the T10 CVs while it was the T8 CV which got hit hardest by the AA buffs to BBs. And a ship being closest doesn't strictly determine whether it would get attacked or not, or T10 CAs and CLs would get attacked significantly more, which just isn't the case given the level of AA flak they can put up shreds even T10 CV planes. Do they attack DDs? Absolutely, they're integral to caps, can't heal and have poor AA. Much the same way CV sniping was so prevalent before the defensive fire addition, they have always been the furthest from the front and yet, they were always the priority target. The main problem from what I've seen is that CVs play differently from anything else and players have just been left to work it out, the fighter loadout is useless, captain skills are mediocre at best, providing little in the way of flexibility or new styles of play, manual drop got removed and players needed the practice for higher tiers and the economy is still poor from what I've seen if it. These are issues which have been knocking about fir well over a year now, we all know that there are problems which are present which don't require just buffing damage, but WG just hasn't done so. The result is BBs are largely uncontested after the nerfs to DDs and the removal of stealth fire.

Yep, CVs have noooooo problems, no issues with crap tutorials, no interface problems, no poor economy, no useless fighter load outs, no bad captain skills and no problems with strike wings looking like they've run into a blender vs even 2 high tier BBS, no issues caused by disabling manual torpedo drop in low tiers so players never learn how to use the tactic. Yeah, CVs are fine, nothing wrong here, it's why the game is swimming in CVs, that 5% figure of the number of games played in CVs is just a lie, no reason why CVs are rare regardless of their power in T10. BBs are actually not the most powerful class in the game at all, it's all a fantasy that 40% of all games are played in BBs. If you're going to spout shite, at least do it at someone which hasn't been around long enough to have played the game since the CV nerfs were implemented which lead to the torpedo soup episode, the nerfs to DDs, radar, AA buffs on BBs, removal of stealth fire. Don't try to teach you grandmother how to suck eggs boyo.

Easy, fix CVs. The camping problem started when WG nerfed CVs into the floor. A BB can sit at the back with impunity and be largely unconcerned given DDs have to run a gauntlet of enemy DDs, CA/CLs, radar, sonar, spotter planes, float planes to even get a chance at getting a shot on a BB camping at the back. Put CVs back into a decent state again and watch the BBs screech for AA support when they've let themselves get isolated and focused by a CV.

Minotaur.

Pfffffffffffffftt. You might play cAs but you have no clue what you're chatting about. Hindenburg is to get a HE penetration buff /4 rather than /6 (Why? I have no idea, they should have buffed the penetration angles and left the semi HE it originally had) Moskva has absolutely terrible armour and it's enormous, so what you're talking about good protection I have no clue where you got that from, it relies on angling bow on with a very sharp bow profile to bounce shells and hp to absorb damage. Des Moines has Radar and is a pain for any DD or CV in the vicinity, and vs BBs it's a huge pain with HE spam. It's not hard to kill... like the Minotaur, Moskva, Hindenburg and even the Zao when it's broadsided or penn'd through the bow. Zao, No it doesn't have the fastest shells, Moskva and Hindenburg are faster. It gets good range with the range module, which is the only viable mod given the turret traverse is so slow and the stock range is 16.8km the shortest of any T10 but the Minotaur It's got the slowest rate of fire of all ships, even the Moskva. So it's RoF is shite for a CA. It's rudder shift is about the same as the other T10s Fire chance is 19% per shell, countered by the slowest rate of fire of any T10 It's a good ship, but after the stealth fire nerf it's not anywhere near as powerful as it was.

Not really. It's a combination of problems which all coalesce in T8 to the greatest extent, although they're there in T7 and T9 and T10, but they're less glaringly obvious. BBs have a power spike in T8, They carry more main guns, they're faster, get better armour, have more HP, better AA and secondaries. But, a T8 BB is still going to struggle vs a T10 CA/CL (namely because the player knows what he's doing) vs a Zao, Minotaur, Moskva or De Moines vs a Bismark,NC, Amagi etc is going to have problems given the increased CA/CL power & the increased skill of the CA/CL player, by that point we've ground through the entire line and tend to have picked up some experience on how to avoid getting obliterated by T10 BBs, so a T8 doesn't pose the same threat level. T8 CA/CLs are at their weakest, with no repair party, high visibility, but minimal armour and limited HP. BBs are at their strongest (relatively), CVs have no ability to counter them given the numerous problems with lack of tutorials, strike load outs, interface, player skill and economy, DDs have taken a nerf, with the likes of Fletcher, Shima and Kaba not popping up until T9 and T10 (which really do pose a threat to BBs) and the economy itself is forgiving, you can screw up in a T8 BB achieve very little and still break even or lose a small amount. T10 BBs and CA/CLs? Nope, perform poorly and you're looking at a loss of maybe -50k (probably more, I don't know) then add on the 22k per premium consumable and additional 44k - 66k so bad players are looking at a loss of -100-150k for each bad match potentially. 100-150k loss to those of us which have learnt to exist in T8-10 seems a rare, given I'm earning at least 300+k for what I see as a decent but not outstanding game with damage, capping, defense fires and ship sunk etc. Those which are grinding their way up, that loss after several matches can easily rack up to 500k. A long time ago when I started in higher tier matches the economy was even less forgiving based on the damage received, so I remember how galling it was to go into a match and come out with you fingers burnt. That is I think why people stay in T8, the costs are significantly lower, the enemy is weaker and the BBs stronger, it's easier and mistakes are less punishing, the skill floor is lower, players encountered are less likely to be higher skilled simply due to numbers and the cost of failure is lower. Personally, I've kept my Bismarck, Tirpitz and Amagi as well as Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, because they're fun and if I want to drop down from from T10 they play completely differently from the Kurfurst and the Yamato. But because I'm odd I also have T8 CAs, the Atago, Kutuzov and Prinz Eugen, even though I know CAs are at the weakest in T8 and I have the Zao, Minotaur, Moskva if we go by the idea that people stay at T8 because they're the most powerful there's no reason for me to have got the T8 CAs, or kept the T8/7 BBs because I earn about significantly more per match in T10 and I have ground most of the top tier CAs/ CLs and BBs.

That's because there's some terrain to for DDs and CA/CLs to block line of sight and shield themselves with. As you said, the problem isn't really epicentre, it's the fact that the Tears of the Desert map has crappy design, the centre being completely exposed, which results in any ship moving into the open being vaporised by focused fire from every ship in range. Even without, Epicentre, Tears of the Desert is still badly designed, with both sides camping behind the terrain either side of the map with a few ships trying to skirt round the flanks and hoping not to get obliterated. It's a very static map, and not particularly fun IMO.

Personally I'd go for Concealment expert if you have an 18 point captain for the 3rd T4 skill I'm running with Manual secondaries and AFT, I have 3 points left, and could go for BoS or BFT, but given I've a 15.9km detection range and I want to get in close, Concealment might be better, given you'll want to avoid losing your secondaries to IFHE and HE spam while you close. Do you have the 100% secondary battery survivability mod? This'll help as Kurfurst tends to attract a ton of HE shells. I wouldn't bother with main battery reload mod, it slows down turret traverse, which given the size of the ship and already slow traverse, I prefer faster turrets to track targets faster as most engagements will take place inside 15km and you'll need to maneuver to angle and minimize damage from torpedoes, being able to bring your guns to bear even while weaving is a big plus IMO, that's my big problem with the Yamato in the secondary build, her turrets are glacially slow. I've gone for secondary battery rate of fire mod on the Kurfurst (which is why I think BFT isn't strictly necessary as I already have a 20% buff) I've been running the same set up on Tirpitz, Bismarck, Gneisenau and Scharnhorst. Use terrain and concealment to get in as close and open up with manual secondaries, main guns and torpedoes to counter the mediocre dispersion.

I didn't catch the Flamu part, I was referring to the rest of the post on how BBs can't do A,B,C and the game needs to change before they can. That's crap, we all know it's crap. I'm average and with an Essex in the game, there is absolutely no way I should have been able to achieve that.

It's an explanation of why the argument that you cannot play a BB in close/ mid range is crap. We all screw up, misjudge situations and get blindsided from time to time and frankly get outplayed in some games as well. Yet your argument is what? Because that happens it's okay for a BB to sit at the back and spam AP shells from 16+km away and be completely useless? Because that's what's being argued, oh but the DD got too close, why were you isolated and got ambushed?, oh but the rest of the team ran off, okay so did you pay attention? Or were you scope'd in and tunnel visioning on a target. All excuses we've heard before as to why BBs can't move in and the game has to change, before they can, they're excuses for making mistakes and getting things wrong and frankly rubbish. Any competent Essex should have been able to stop me from pulling that off or checked my advance, so to argue that you can't close because you get spammed with HE is a failure on the part of the player not understanding the battle, ship or mechanics, or simply getting outplayed by another player the implication that a BB can't act effectively at mid to close range is horse crap. Edit: Or are you honestly saying that BBs have a hard time of things at the moment? Really? And frankly it's a good example of how badly CVs need to be sorted out to reign in BB strength and numbers.

Wew, not even close to reality. There is no way I should have been able to pull that off with a competent Essex in the game, given I only had an Kaba and Gearing escort while I swung round C on shatter, crippled a Hipper with 9 over pens and still did 20k+ damage and then ended round the island to catch the Yamato in B broadside on for 50k, destroyed the enemy Kaba and then vaporised the Moskva and Des Moines which were out of position and flanked, finished of the Gneisenau which was in a division and did so much damage to the enemy Essex that the escort DDs could finish it off. At no point was any engagement I took outside of 15km, most took place inside 10km (if you're firing from outside of 15km and expect to hit anything, you're doing something wrong.) and my Kurfurst still has a detection range of 15.9km so once I get the final 18th point and put it into concealment, I'll have fully secondary specc'd T10 BB with a detection level of less than a stock Moskva. Nothing in that game stopped me engaging head on at close range in the Kurfurst, and it's how I play all by BBs, if you blunder in like an imbecile, you'll get focused down and shredded by DoT and IFHE spam. But that's a failure on your part for misjudging your position and the flow of the fight. Potatoes are bad players whatever they use, they just feel more useful in a BB, they're not, they're still shite.

Nothing. Roon, I don't use it anymore, German BBs do everything better, it's a poor man's Moskva and Zao. I'll play Zao because the long range sniping meta in the Yamato puts me into a coma. (My Yamato is specc'd for secondary, not the most efficient build, but frankly I don't care, sitting and snipping bow on is mind numbingly boring) Minotaur is the only T10 which stands apart from the rest due to it's concealment, maneuverability, AP shells, smoke/ radar and rapid traverse and obscene rate of fire which actually makes it a match for DDs and allows it to survive the high tier sniping meta better than other CAs, it's basically a big gunboat DD.

What tiers do you mean? T8? Yeah, they suffer badly from being up tiered and they're not anymore powerful that their T7 counterparts, and they end up running into T10 and T9 regularly which results in them getting stomped on hard. T9, are pretty decent, T10 CAs/ CLs can put out a scary amount of damage given the opportunity but you also have to abuse the mechanics and know how to manipulate game meta to a disgusting degree by hiding behind islands, smoke, stealth play etc. Basically don't act as a CA/ CL support ship because you'll be nuked, either wolf pack it and spam HE at BBs until they cry and run away or use the RN and melt DDs and hammer BBs with AP whenever they give a broadside. High tier CA/CL are in a good position at the moment, but they suffer horribly from lucky citadel hits fired from a potato BB 16+km away which will fire at you rather than the BB in front of him as you're a soft target or a stray shell penetrates through the bow and wrecks your HP. Smaller citadels, or spaced into 3 for the magazines and engine compartments, that's it. And T8 could do with a repair party consumable. Other than that the ships themselves are in a good position. The real issue is that BB numbers are stupid given WG has given them numerous direct and indirect buffs, their counters are non existent given the nerfs they've received or the poor level of tutorial and bad economy that CVs suffer from. To bring BBs into check you need to make CVs viable again as a counter.

No it doesn't, it shows the relative position of the closest ship Try using tactics which rely on either stealth, terrain or movement to out position your enemy with a DD or CA/CL with a ship with this in the vicinity. It's a bloody pain, making CA/CL ambush/ hit and run tactics redundant. The one consolation is, it's uncommonly used given no one wants to sacrifice 4 points for random matches, get a division with a captain using this skill its a a whole new level of stupidity and frankly broken.

Kek Edited again. At least he's consistent. This post has been edited by the moderation team due to insult

God, the Izumo was absolute garbage. I free Xp'd to the max upgraded hull and turrets. The stock Izumo is just so painfully bad, at everything the shell penetration was bloody awful, 410mm AP shells which bounce of T7 BB with a slight angle or shatter.... really? REALLY? Yet I've still got my Amagi. I actually really like the Gneisenau and Bismarck and I've kept them despite having the Kurfurst and Yamato.