COPlUM

Yeah that's what I mean, 10km torps at T8/T9/T10 is fine if the ship has something else going for it, because 10km torps aren't going to win any prizes, especially these cuz you can spot them from the moon. I felt like an ape playing it because in order to do anything you have to dive face-first into radar bubbles or go flanking and hope the enemy team is nice enough to let you do it.

4/8 highlighted in bold the tech tree ship is at least as good. Lightning's forward angles make up for a lot, vladivostok is more dangerous than lenin under 14km, 155mm mogami is a beast and izumo got big buffs. There's plenty of amazing tech tree ships, I'm not on the pay to win bandwagon but there are examples of pay to win, Asashio vs Kagero is one. There's also examples of pay to lose, plenty of bad premiums, witchita and anchorage are crappy baltimores just to name one example, there's many. I don't want free players to be discouraged from loving tech tree ships, it's just kagero I think is a horrid experience.

Look at topic date

Look at topic date

Reset harugumo line 3 times in a week to get Ohio, not because the harugumo line is the cheapest to reset, but because I enjoy the T8 and T9, thats what most important when doing this, otherwise it feels like work.

I get that but kagero pays heavily for torps with the worst dpm, the worst turret traverse and the worst AA - And the torps she gets are not even any good, 10km torps with convenient BB sized gaps in the spread + 1.7km detect are no good, especially with 12km radar zoning you out constantly. Asashio also pays with the worst dpm, traverse and AA but she gets torps that are punishing to battleships and she gets TRP with smoke, both. I usually defend tech tree ships when people whine about premiums being OP, overall I think weegee has done a good job over the years keeping tech tree ships competitive, but Kagero feels like a huge exception here. It's like Kagero creates a problem - A pure torpedo boat with torps that don't work in 2020. And they sell the solution, Asashio, the same ship with torps that do work in 2020. I went down 10 lines since last summer, I enjoyed everything but this was a terrible experience. If a boat sacrifices everything to be a pure torpedo boat, at least give it decent torps. Lower tier battleships are small and agile enough + get so much advance warning they just slip through or turn out/in. Higher tier battleships are almost untouchable with 10km torps because 12km radar zones you out so hard. This ship needs help, not for me, I'm done with it, thank god, I'm disgusted by it, it needs help for everyone else playing it. The fact that Bear and you can make it work doesn't really mean anything, you can make anything work. It can't be a coincidence that I just finished grinding through 3 DD lines, did well in all of them and this ship made me want to pull my hair out.

I skipped yugumo with fxp and never had any intention of playing shima, it's just another line for the T10 collection/annual supercontainers. I knew these boats were powercrept but I didn't know it was so bad. I could probably get something done in Yugumo because DPM goes from pathetic to bad and torps go from 10km to 12km. I'm a decent player, no unicum, I can do well in decent boats, I can carry in good boats, I'm trash in trash boats. I also can't for the life of me understand how kagero is supposed to compete with her sister ship asashio, literally thesame ship but it gets reload booster and smoke (not one or the other) and it has 20km deep water torps instead of 10km torps that are spotted from the moon and easy to dodge. Kagero trades everything for concealment and meh torps, asashio trades everything for concealment and actually scary torps.

A welcome change but with cruiser accuracy and rangemod it will now drop a triple fire on you every 22 seconds from 27km instead of 28km - There's still going to be 12 Thunderers in your T10 games mate.

These are freemiums, not premiums, you did not pay for them and thunderer spam is ruining T10. Don't worry, you still have 74% chance of a double fire per salvo and 45% chance of a triple fire per salvo, every 25 seconds - with cruiser accuracy. You can even keep doing it from a distance where nobody can ever shoot you back as 23km with rangemod is still 27km. This is a welcome change but will not change the fact that 6 year olds can farm 250K damage games in Thunderer while shoving crayons up their nose.

Sail to the other side of the map to join the lemming train? There was no enemy push, at no point did anyone push. I looked at the map, I realized I would never get anything done alone on a flank against a T10 DD T10 CV and Petro so I figured the best I can do for my team here is use this T8 junk boat to waste as much of these guy's time as possible. My mistake was playing this ship at all, when people like yuro and flamu both say a ship is in a sad state I should have informed myself and skipped it. Every superb player I spoke to about this ship or read their opinion on it told me Kagero has no reason to even exist the way it does as a T8 in the current meta, even Pete is saying yeah can't do much when people are camping. The only guy who's opinion I really value who said it's a fine ship was Bearnecessities but he was an exception, everyone else laughed at me for wasting time on it. Some good came of this experiment though, I know now that I was not disrespecting IJN torpedoboats enough, I'll disrespect them even more in the future. Don't hesitate when they outspot you, even if you're half HP, just speedboost into them and kill them fast, they die before they get their guns turned around.

Well yeah there was no target alone on a flank against a petro, a radar yueyang and a T10 carrier. I don't see how kagero is supposed to do anything to a cruiser with 12km radar, a destroyer with 7.5km radar and a T10 carrier. I was confused about what I was even supposed to achieve there. All I could do was waste 3 of their guys time to give my team an 11v9 on the other side of the map. But virtually every game was like this for me. Anyway I sold the boat and used free xp to skip Yugumo and get shima as an extra T10 - which I don't intend on ever playing because kagero is in such a poor state it turned me off from ever wanting to play an IJN torpedo boat. I had 2 great games in it and 28 terrible ones. It was such a bad experience I flipped off my screen when I sold it. I grinded 10 lines since last summer and enjoyed everything, this thing just pissed me off because T8 gets sucked into T10 - and Kagero can't do anything in a T10 game. If you get sucked into T10 in baltimore, you're a very effective stealth radar ship, if you get sucked into T10 in north carolina, you're a small montana with a missing turret, if you get sucked into T10 in akizuki, you're a harugumo with a missing turret, if this thing gets sucked into T10, it's screwed, you got 9km guns and 10km torps against truckloads of 12km radar and destroyers with 300% more DPM that just rush you down. Even in a T8 game or a game where I did really well, I didn't like it, you get to launch some torps every 2 minutes, your DPM is sad and your guns take half a minute to turn, so destroyers just rush you down and melt you before you even get guns on target.

This sums up my 22 games in Kagero. https://replayswows.com/replay/126879#stats

I won a few rounds in it now but I had to completely change my approach to a match. In every DD I ever played my approach is as follows : Do the people behind me show any interest in helping me kill the DD? Yes => Good, it will die even faster, kill it, get the cap, win the flank. No => Don't care I'll kill it myself and smoke up to disengage after I killed it. In Kagero my approach is : Do the people behind me show any interest in helping me kill the DD? Yes => Keep it spotted, get it killed, get the cap, win the flank. No => Clearly I can't do anything about it in this ship, the enemy can have the cap for free, I'll go torpedo-farm his BBs/CAs while he torpedo-farms mine. Basically when I see one salvo fly over the enemy DD towards some enemy battleship, I sacrifice the ships behind me to the torpedo gods, if they don't want to win, I can't help them, not in this ship anyway. I kept losing because I felt the need to kill the enemy DD when the people behind me were too stupid to shoot it, it can't win 1v1 so I died and then the people behind me were eating torps and blind. When I stay alive and sacrifice the guys behind me to the torpedo gods, we don't get the cap and my cruisers/battleships eat torps but at least they're not blind and can still put out some damage while they drown in torpedo soup. Things would be a lot easier if people behind you shoot the DD but that's some big brain play you can't expect unless you're playing clan battles. I actually think Kagero might be an enjoyable clan battle ship, in random battles, I hate it, because you are almost entirely at the mercy of the people behind you.

Am confused by this, all of them? Or at least every DD I played so far can beat another DD in a gunfight, so like a jutland can bump into a harugumo and beat it, it wont be easy, harugumo has the upper hand, but it is possible if your aim is better than the other guy. In Kagero, you bump into any enemy destroyer, you get dumpstered. Same with planes, even a lightning will shoot down some planes eventually, if you smoke, dodge and juke long enough, you get a break, the CV may insist and come back for you, but you get a break. Kagero does not get a break, it does not matter how bad the enemy CV is or how well you dodge and juke, one squadron can be right on top of you for 20 mins, its never going away, the planes are there and they are there to stay until you are dead. Knowing death is inevitable when planes come in your general direction feels wrong on so many different levels. I am seeing minor improvements with taking TRB instead of smoke, smoke does not help this ship much. Carrier just leaves a squadron of fighters on top of your smoke so your smoke becomes a death sentence, stay in the smoke, something will radar/hydro push you and you die, leave the smoke, fighter planes light you up like a christmas tree. So if planes are a death-sentence with or without smoke, I might as well embrace TRB to put out more torps and just live with the fact that planes = death. Im going to suffer through this because im a few days away from an extra T10 but playing ships like this feels like a religious thing, the moment you spawn, its in gods hands, if the CV/DDs dont want to kill you, you may do stuff.

I did it, I killed something, I beat an enemy DD in kagero, I can die happy now, I only beat it because the other guy was also a kagero but thats OK. I would like to thank my manager, my wife and kids for the support. Topic can die now, kagero can beat other destroyers, other kageros to be specific.

Thank you, watched it, not to disparage in any way but that's a T6 game, half a dozen battleships pushing, CV let you do whatever you want, at no point did an enemy DD try to find and/or engage you in any way. I'm sure this is representative of what the ship can do, but all I had so far was CVs sticking on me like a swarm of bees and T10 gunboat DDs rushing me down. What I'm getting from this clip and Bear's clip is this ship comes with a lot of RNG. It can do unspeakable things to a fleet of battleships but if one destroyer or carrier decides to stop you, you go back to port. An Akizuki can do what you did there, it can't do it as well, but it can brute-force its way into that situation by killing the other DD and/or killing some planes, Kagero can't. What I'm getting from every kagero gameplay video I've seen thus far is you can do great if the enemy DDs and CVs are nice enough to let you do it. That's such a curious thing to know when you play a ship.

Akizuki => Kitakaze with module = 12% more DPM Kagero => Yugumo with module = 30% more DPM + 30% more range + somewhat usable turret traverse I understand and appreciate that a well played kitakaze will gun down a well played yugumo, I'm fine with that, rock/paper/scissors. What I can't deal with in Kagero is how hard it gets beaten, it gets beaten in a gunfight even if the guy you're fighting is pepega, rams his ship into an island and misses half his shots, it gets beaten even if you have a large HP advantage.. The gap between it and its peers in a gunfight is, in my opinion, far too great. When I compare Yugumo's stats to its peers, that powergap in a gunfight is still there, as it should be, but the gap is not silly. Most of the time you can't even apply your anemic DPM because you're dead before your turrets turned around. The worst thing is 0 damage games, I'm sorry, the CV wanted you dead before you could come anywhere near a battleship or a cruiser. I'm sorry the enemy DD bumped into you, 0 damage for you, you died in 15 seconds but your guns take 30 seconds to turn around, 0 damage for you. A lightning can't have 0 damage games, you can make a carrier leave six times with spam smoke, your guns are on target instantly so even if you lose the engagement, the other guy took a beating. I have never had a 0 damage game in any ship, in this thing I just got ten 0 damage games in a row.

That's fair, I'll rephrase, wall of good predictions and a lot of RNG. My target didn't touch the Q or E key and doesn't have hydro active, I can do damage, probably. I don't like RNG.

Yeah I can't force kagero to be a crappy gunboat, I'll try again with yugumo though. Reason I say I don't care about gitting gud in torpedo boats but still want to have 50 half-decent games in these stupid things is because I'm getting Shima as an extra T10 (anniversary supercontainers) - I never intended to keep a captain in shima or put any modules on it. I figured I'm good enough to play them half-decent with just basic instructions but - clearly this is not the case lol.

Reload goes from 7.1 to 5.1 with the module so it's a 30% boost. Not many DDs get a 30% boost going from T8 to T9 and Kagero gets sucked into T9/T10 games constantly anyway. Played all day yesterday, I got 0 top tier games, 4 T8 games and everything else I was in T9/T10 MM. I'm a decent enough gunboat DD player, gunboat yugumo is not optimal but I'll make it work. I rather do that than send a wall of skill every 3 minutes and get cucked by someone tapping the E key or hydro.

Yugumo has 50% more DPM and 35% more range. I'm going to play Yugumo as a crappy gunboat instead of a good torpedo-boat because I just hate torps as a primary weapon, I rather have the worst T9 gunboat than the best T9 torpedoboat. You launch some torps, shlt, my target touched his E key in the 2 minutes it took for my torps to hit, guess I'll try again in 3 minutes, I can pleasure myself under my desk meanwhile. You launch some torps, shlt, my target touched his hydro consumable in the 2 minutes it took for my torps to hit, guess I'll try again in 3 minutes, I can watch netflix meanwhile. There's 2 reasons I have respect for people playing ships like this A) It's hard, DDs are the most difficult class by far but torpedo boats are even harder, I didn't know that. B) I find it incredibly boring.

I'm not good enough to play this, i'm good enough to play every other DD but not this. I just tried twice with torpedo reload booster, both cases I did 0 damage and died before the second minute. 1- Planes found me and killed me before I got anywhere near a battleship, I did 1846 plane damage & shot down 1 plane in the time it took him to get 3 drops and kill me. 2- Bumped into a halland who probably went that way to do thesame thing, it killed me in the time it took me to turn turn around, dead before I had one turret aimed his way, why does a dd have north carolina turret traverse. Its been a gut wrenching day, 10 hours of humiliation, almost all 0 damage games, after 9 months of playing well, I don't understand how people play ships like this and I don't want to know. When your concealment is a few hundred meters better, sometimes just one hundred meters, it's not enough to avoid bumping into someone, you last 20 seconds under fire and your guns take 35 seconds to turn around. And that's just if the carrier doesn't go for you, if the carrier goes for you, you effectively spawn dead. Next time I beat up a Kagero, Yugumo or Shima, I'm not going to be proud about it, they never got a chance to shoot me, they were just unlucky to bump into me. I got a lot of respect for people playing these things but I don't envy you

Uhm, is that you? wtf is that, you go around the enemy team into their spawn, kill their CV and fight them from behind, is this some freak game or is this actually what I should do, or try to do anyway. Genuine question idk how to play torpedo boats. I always just ambush torpedo boats, they are often trying to "get through" to my battleships, often by going wide, I only ever go wide to kill those guys and get back to the front lines. This is what I want to do? Slip through, get in the enemies rear? I can try that, I mean I think I could do that. *edit - do I want to completely ignore the enemy destroyers and the caps? Because every time I go in the cap I immediately get planes on top of me and without smoke or any AA that is suicide. I just died in the 90th second of the game, got into a cap, ranger and parseval on me immediately. It just feels so wrong to ignore all the objectives and the enemy destroyers to go farm battleships.

I've been backing into the caps, but I do that with most DDs in most scenarios anyway. It being small and nimble is the one thing I like about it, turns on a dime, if you dodge you can dodge well because it's tiny, it dances around torpedos, doesn't need hydro to torpedobeat with ease. I feel very uncomfortable playing TRB instead of smoke but if you say so I'll do it. Ur logic is sound, 3 smoke puffs won't save me against a good CV, might as well take the option that lets me nuke a battleship. I will feel very uncomfortable letting the enemy destroyer do what he wants to my battleships though, when I play DDs, I don't allow myself to do anything until I killed the other guy, now I have to let him go farm my battleships while I farm his battleships and I should do it better?

Exactly, what I hate about the ship (and presumably every other torpedo boat) is I have no direct impact, you can't go in and kill another DD like you can in a gunboat or even a hybrid, can't draw a ton of incoming fire on yourself and make everyone reveal their location like you can in an open water gunboat. You just sort sail around and hope your team uses the information you give them to prioritize targets properly. But too often that does not happen, every time I keep a DD or a radar cruiser spotted the ships behind me are just farming some Großer Kurfürst 25km away. So I get annoyed and want to do it myself, either because I get pushed by something that's more powerful than me (literally everything) or I get frustrated and die trying to win my duel without help, both scenarios the guys behind me are screwed because their DD is dead. I know what it's like to a have a potato kagero/yugumo/shima explode in front of you and now I'm doing this to people. I mean here look, this is the last 3 lines I played, finished with fifteen destroyers in 2 weeks. I did decent, good or amazing in all of them. Now I'm in this thing and I'm literally useless. I'm so bad I want to report myself for playing poorly. I had one "good game" in it where I played like a monkey sitting behind a rock and yoloing into two battleships, got devastating strikes, 2500 base XP game, so that result is scewed even, I didn't play poorly 14 times, I got one lucky monster game and 13 ultra-pepega games. These are the last 15 ships I finished grinding in the last 2 weeks, the way I play just doesn't work with Kagero, I love murdering other destroyers and the ship is incapable of it. I don't want to git gud in torpedo boats, they're not for me, but if I want to play this thing at least somewhat competent, you're telling me I have to be super patient, let my team do the work for me, just survive, be a tourist, drive around "looking at stuff" and hope my team is decent? That's the biggest possible impact I can have, drive around looking at stuff and stay alive? I do this sometimes in other DDs when I have to - but to do this every match the entire match, I'd rather blow my brains out than play the game like this for more than a few days. Mad respect for people who play these things, patience of a buddhist monk. I lose my mind when I do it and people behind me are farming some battleship in the back. This is like watching paint dry and kitakaze is like parachute jumping and snorting cocaine simultaneously.