Runegrem

It was on these forums too way back when. Then they removed it. But now they've come to their senses (lol) and gotten it back in a new and interesting form.

10% better concealment is not a gimmick. That's like saying that KM AP being stronger is a gimmick. It's not. It's just a specialty of the nation. You think removing an module is easier than rising a number? Whatever, doesn't matter since the distinction isn't relevant. Yes, taking everything from any ship is bad. And no one suggested doing so. So I'm not sure why you brought it up. Did it appear that I suggested it? My choice would be to force the player to choose between radar and smoke, just like with other high tier British CLs. It works just fine for them, so it should work for the Belfast. A more realistic fix is to change how radar works, since that technically doesn't count as a nerf to a specific premium according to WG. Also, hypothetical is fun. Like I said, making BBs more accurate would make it far too easy for them to delete cruisers at ranges below 12km. It's not all that easy to dodge at those ranges since cruisers aren't that nimble. It's not even that easy in the Kebab if the shooter knows what he's doing and you know what that ship is like. The exception of course is kiting, which is far easier for all ships. More BB accuracy would also mean that one zig when you should've zagged in a cruiser means you're dead. I don't think that's an acceptable level of risk. Also, BBs don't need to be stronger against DDs than they currently are.

That insane amout of gimmicks is exactly one more than the Chapa has: smoke. Chapa has radar with longer range than her concealment, hydro and concealment module. Though the concealment module itself isn't the issue, the effective concealment is. Taking either one out would make the Belfast more balanced, sure, but that doesn't necessarily mean she won't be stupidly overpowered. Kutuzov is a really strong ship, so that wouldn't be too much. It would still be powerful, maybe even overpowered, but not stupidly so. Without smoke the Belfast would be something like a Chapayev at tier 7. The Chapa works just fine, so it would probably be balanced. Yes. Even if you removed it there wouldn't be enough of a change. And unless you're facing deepwater or Kebab torps, you can angle against them and be fairly sure you can avoid them without hydro. Like I said, the module itself isn't the issue, the resulting concealment is. So either removing the module or nerfing the base concealment would have the same effect. And yes, it would make it a bit weaker. But mostly only against surprise DDs. Normally you would have a friendly DD in front of you who can spot for you, which makes it easier to use your radar and smoke effectively. Another interesting nerf I can think of would be to make any ship who uses radar/hydro be spotted by all enemy ships within radar/hydro range. There are realism arguments to be made for that, but I don't think they have a place in a gameplay balance discussion so I'll just say that I think it sounds fair. If BBs were more accurate they could easily delete cruisers more or less at will. Sure, it'd take skill to do so, but you only need to learn how to lead well. Maybe it could work if you just outright removed citadels, getting 20k salvos without citadels happen even now, and even with KM shotgun BBs. The trend seems to be to make BBs immune to them anyway, so why not extend that to the cruisers as well? The RNG nature of BB guns is mostly due to the existance of these critical hits after all. At longer ranges it seems that citadels are more likely if you count per hit, but you get far fewer hits. BBs rely on RNG to kill cruisers in one or two salvos, not to kill them in more salvos at ranges below 12km. The problem with BBs is that they don't get punished by mistakes nearly as hard as any other class. A BB getting screwed by RNG means she doesn't get the kill. A cruiser or DD getting screwed by RNG means she's dead, or nearly dead.

I kinda like them. Would like more positive ones though. Not exactly the same. Some are worse, some are better. I feel WoWs has a fairly well-adjusted community for the most part. Just compare it to WoT or something. The worst parts of this community can probably be found on these forums, and even then it's not too bad. In-game the players are overall quite pleasant.

The Chapayev can do that as well; and the arcs of the guns make it easy to hit DDs within that range, but no one's claiming the Chapa is overpowered. So that's not the reason. If you want BB guns to be more punishing at close ranges then they need to be less punishing at longer distances. They're dangerous enough as it is even at long ranges. And if you feel like you need to depend on RNG to delete an enemy before he can get at you, then you've either misplayed or been outplayed. There needs to be consequences for that for BBs. There is for all other ships after all.

That hypothetical Moskva then has five DDs on his team. One or two of them could easily spot for him. And a Moskva has guns that work well at those detection ranges. No, Belfast would still be broken if you removed the Concealment module. You need to make it have to choose between radar and smoke. It's that combination that's stupid. Not really. What makes BBs camp is other BBs. Their main guns are the biggest threat to BBs after all. So to get BBs to camp less you need to remove their main guns. Simple solution is best solution.

You mean alone, just cruiser vs. destroyer? Just drive into it with hydro. It's really effective. Or without hydro. If you have an idea of where the DD is it's not too hard to avoid most torps. Of course, that very rarely happens since there are almost always some BB lurking in the back who can shoot you dead. Radar doesn't change that and it's not your job as a cruiser to contest caps. That's a DDs job. So why should a cruiser be better at a DD job than a DD?

Depening on map/backup, you can get really good results doing that. It's very dependent on the map. RN CLs are good at it since they should be kinda close anyway. And again, with enough island cover or support you can do it even in German CAs. Wouldn't try it on Okinawa's B or C cap though. It depends on the cruiser, but RU CAs have no problem hitting DDs at decent (10-14km) ranges. With IJN or KM CAs it takes a little more skill. RN or US cruisers have too lofty arcs to be effective at long ranges against DDs. I'm unfamiliar with the French ones though, but I assume they're like the IJN ones at worst. Also, a DD running away is hard to hit even at slightly closer distances. Especially if she's got a decent captain.

If a friendly DD smokes up and sits broadside in a cap and blocks your vision there's a lot you can do that doesn't involve radar. You can maneuver around the smoke, pop a caterpult plane or move into the cap with sonar. If an enemy DD smokes up in a cap you can just torp him. Any DD can do it, even the Kebab, and depending on how the smoke is placed and positioning of enemy ships, so can most cruisers. Cruisers can also in the right circumstances move in with hydro, though that is risky. Staying slightly behind to support friendly DDs moving in is also possible. mariouus was describing one of those scenarios, and I'm not actually sure which he meant to describe, but since the first scenario is far easier to deal with without radar and saying you should have a certain consumable to counter an allied player making a bad play is a bad argument I can see why Capra76 assumed it was the second scenario that was described. So, @mariouus could you please clarify what you meant? Also, @DFens_666 you say that the Zao only has 100 more HE damage than the Aoba, but you didn't mention that the Zao also have twice as many guns as the Aoba. And with the reload mod you can reach a DPM of something close to twice that of the Aoba. I haven't done the exact math on that though, but with twice the guns, 100 more HE damage and with base reload of 13.6s compared to the Aoba's 10.9s I think it's exact enough.

I only really found tier 7 to be a problem when it was ranked at that tier since that exacerbated the overpoweredness of the Belfast. In normal randoms it's less noticeable since more ships per team and other tiered ships dilute the effect of a few premiums.

Yeah, I didn't say it was equal though, just that it wasn't too bad. And in my opinion, the Belfast had it coming. Belfasts always have it coming. Ship's broken, mate. A well played CV, or just one gunning for the DDs, can be far worse for a DD than a radar ship or three since like the real life Shimakaze found out, it doesn't matter how fast your ship is, you still can't run from planes. CVs are also broken, mate. In all ways and directions.

Well, there are three radar ships in the game and they were distrubuted 2-1 so that's not too bad. And I don't think anyone would complain that the Belfast is underpowered. Also, radar has never and judging from how WG sees it, will never be considered in MM because apparently it doesn't affect the game. WG claims they have numbers on that but last thing I heard they've refused to release those numbers. Needless to say, most players disagree.

Even if you exclude crashes due to faulty programming from that statement it's still wrong in many cases. There have been many threads about the game's inconsistent loading speeds even for players with good PCs and connections.

Ah. I haven't actually noticed an increase, so I hope it's just your bad luck and not something real. And no, you should never lower yourself to the standards of the players you think misbehave. That would make you a hypocrite and part of the problem. So please don't do that.

How frequent do you mean? Every match? Every other match? Every fifth match? I find it kinda rare that players stay still for more than maybe 2 minutes or so because sometimes the game loads very slowly. Because Wargaming.

I like hotspot if I'm playing my Chapayev. I can just cruise over to C and support my allied DDs with radar and be reasonably sure no BB is going to get in the way too fast.

I had one Kagero in a game who apologised for having brought torp reload. So mistakes can happen. No idea if the player in your match made the same mistake and then refused to own up to it or if he just thinks it's better to fire more torps and die quicker.

I've actually had a lot of fun with the Emerald. Sure, it's not great, but I've had some good success brawling in it. It's also fun. Fun is important.

So, most fun: DD: Kebab, Vampire, Tachibana. All good gunboats. The low tiers are fun to derp around in and in the Kebab you can just cruise around and pick a fight with any ship you want. CL/CA: Emerald. Yes, really. It's really fun to get in close and brawl with other cruisers and DDs. BBs, not so much. BB: North Carolina. Good guns and good AA so you don't have to worry so much about planes. The Iowa and the recently bought Missouri are about the same. CV: lol no. Least fun: DD: T-22. The guns feel anemic and the torps are meh. CL/CA: Furutaka/Aoba. I never really got along well with those ships when I played through that part of the line. Sure, the guns can do a lot of damage against anything, but I had some bad experiences with BB-like dispersion. BB: Mostly any BB lower than tier 7. They're all slow, and the dispersion doesn't agree with me with the really low tier ones having crap range as well. The exceptions are the fast Kongo and the Fuso with lots of guns. CV: The gameplay. There's a reason I don't play them.

I like Epicentre. The only exception being if I'm in a cruiser playing on you know what map. That map is fine in the other game modes though. Would be funny to see Epicentre on North though.

I use the horn to say hello at the start of the match. Just three signals. I assume that's some actual tradition for ships leaving port or something. I've heard it a lot in the port of the city I live in. Any one player using the horn at the start of the battle tends to make everyone else use it as well. Also, avoiding collisions isn't something I overmuch strive for. Especially in a shootout since colliding with someone quickly changes your and your ally's course, which messes up the enemies aim since the auto-aim feature can't predict it.

Yeah. It's just that some low tier cruisers have no armour at all. I've even citadelled cruisers with the Tachibana's 76mm HE shells.

Ah, yes. Of course I do. And I think my max speed with boost and flag is 48.7 kts. That speed makes it really easy to avoid most CV torps. I think only the Kaga's torps can keep up. The others aren't nearly fast enough so you can just angle slightly away and not get hit.

Or, since everyone seems to be taking this skill for absolutely every ship they could just remove the skill altogether since if everyone takes it then no one really gains an advantage over other with it. This is a totally unbiased opinion and has absolutely nothing to do with any ship I particularily enjoy playing which doesn't use the skill. #makekebabgreatagain Disclaimer: There may or may not be things in this post that are more or less true.

It's a good ship. The biggest problem is the slow turrets. If you want to get the most out of it you probably want EM on your commander, which I wouldn't recommend for the Udaloi nor for the two tier 10 RU DDs if you have them or are planning to get them. The silver sister ship Minsk and the Khabarovsk have the same highest 33 43 kts base speed. Random fact: While most silver ships are the name or lead ship of the class while the premium variants aren't here it's the other way around with the Leningrad and the Minsk being Leningrad-class destroyer leaders.