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Runegrem

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About Runegrem

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  1. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    Well, either a BB trying to sneak up on you for a good broadside, in which case you probably don't know she's even there to begin with since sneaking, or a BB trying to retreat from having overextended. And I don't think we need to punish overextendment more than now. So, one case where you probably don't know to use the radar and the other where I don't think the radar target should be more punished than how it is now. Of course, you'd be able to do that even with radar as it is now, but at least now you're more likely to have the radar on cooldown or none left since it's not only that situation where you're using it. Wut? Are you saying radar cruisers don't have anything other than the radar? Or that they're completely useless without it? So a DD is severely out of position if he's in radar range of someone and within 10-12km from anyone else that can shoot at him. That's an incredibly campy view of the game since most of the time you'd have to stay far away from the action, outside of just about any cap, until the enemy has been reduced to fewer ships. Also, baiting radar lands you in that "severely out of position" spot as well, if not for long. And what does farming BBs have to do with anything? Besides, if radar was LoS the DD wouldn't actually be in radar range and thus not out of position. Which is a clear advantage for the DD when LoS radar is in play. I haven't said I want to change the game in that way, I'm only saying that your argument against LoS is bad. Are those "you"'s directed at me personally or is it a general statement? Yes, you have. You don't get shot at. It's kind of important if you want to stay alive. So either don't say that there are no advantages or prove that getting shot at is better than not getting shot at. Why does that matter? If you have a problem with someone's argument, then address the argument, don't go for the person behind it. It's bad manners.
  2. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    I really haven't given them much thought, so I I'm not sure I get the point as is to be frank. Well, WG has proven on multiple occasions that they do cater more to the BB crowd. There's play between completely in the open and just in the open enough to radar a DD. Also, even if they couldn't use the radar they wouldn't be pointless. The radar would be, not the cruiser. So you're seriously saying that a DD that's closer than some 10-12km from a BB or a cruiser or DD with reasonably flat arcs is severely out of position? Also, if the DD is trying to cap any hit is meaningful. Then it's approaching the meme about WG calling DDs "overconfident" when they got blapped by BBs from 15km away. The benefit is in not getting shot at. It's not rocket science. Whether he's out of position is irrelevant to him benefitting from it. That there are advantages with x-ray radar doesn't eliminate the fact that there are advantages to LoS radar. You're debating the person rather than the argument, so yes, you're attacking the person. Attack in this case refers to what you target with your arguments, not that you're being offensive or toxic or something like that.
  3. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    Oh, so you did mean that they won't want to get within radar range, fair enough. However, that's still wrong since there is play between staying way back and yoloing with your radar. Just as well as there is play between not capping at all and yoloing into the caps asap as a DD. Cruisers don't die as soon as anyone looks at them crossly. They're not super tough, but they aren't made out of papier-mâché either, except maybe for the British ones. If an unspotted DD is on the other side of an island from a radar cruiser but with one or more enemy ships in LoS, then she'd benefit from not being radared through the island. That's a situation that happens now and I don't see any changes within the game at all that would stop them from happening. So there you have a DD that would benefit from LoS radar. Also, all, including your, predictions point towards this change leading to radar being used far less, which DDs also benefit from. So yes, saying that no one would benefit from the change is a lie since even you predict a scenario where DDs benefit. Of course, it might also be that you missed that implication, which makes it a mistake rather than a lie. Such things happen. And like I said, I don't predict LoS radar to have a huge influence on the quality of play. Some things will get shifted around, like DDs can probably get a little more aggressive while cruisers get less so. But overall, it's not a big thing. Radar isn't fine, it's meh. Not the biggest issue now, but not well balanced. No argument that there're issues with CVs though. If you're attacking the person rather than the argument, then it's an ad hominem. And don't judge somone's value in a discussion about a specific mechanic based on how well they play that particular class. Since if that's true, then no one who didn't play the CVs well had anything of value to add to the CV debate leading to the rework. That's clearly untrue since there were very few players who were actually good at the old CVs and a lot more players had valuable insight into the situation.
  4. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    And the ad hominem "arguments" return. Fun. This is a plain lie. Please don't lie. They wouldn't want to get into radar range? I'm assuming you meant something like "...could never hope to get..." Grammar issues aside, LoS radar would make it harder for radar cruisers, but not so hard as to make them pointless. So CVs are back to the old numbers again? With almost none of them in games? Also, radar cruisers aren't the only ones that can spot DDs, they've never been. Also also, I'm not sure how much of that was meant as an actual argument and how much was just a shot at whiners. Yeah. Letting players try it out probably wouldn't hurt. No one can really know for sure what the effect would be on general gameplay, only theorize. My theory is that the positives and negatives of the change would balance eachother out more than people here seem to predict. Also, I wanna say that using "WG has tried it" as an argument means nothing to me. I think WG has proven time and time again that they have a lot to learn about balancing. And coding.
  5. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    I like playing both of those ships, when I'm actually playing the game, and I don't mind those things. A BB with radar is out there as it is and if the Salem got her radar buffed she would just be a just plain stronger premium DM instead of a slightly quirky premium DM.
  6. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    Ah, so it was more of the extra duration that came with the delay than the delay itself. That makes sense.
  7. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    Because that would be admitting that radar isn't well balanced. I'm not sure what you mean with that last part. Why call out the people who argued for the delay? I don't understand how it helped you in that example. Well, maybe that Mino radar just happens to sync up with Moskva gun reload (I can't numbers right now). Is that it?
  8. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    I have no idea what to think of the big boat radar. Sure, BBs do have less than 15km detection range, but they usually don't hide that much. And the ones that do hide do so behind islands at max range. That said, the result is probably more camping. That's usually a safe bet. You have to go through the DDs to research CVs now? That feels odd. I really meant the more recent change. From what I've heard they were stronger just after the rework than before it, but were nerfed in a later patch. Or AA was buffed, same diff. Well, no one has accused WG of being smart, or honest.
  9. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    There is that. On the other hand the worse players will get that extra freedom of not dying, so I don't think the balance will be off. I actually think a 1-3km difference for the stealthiest ships will do a lot of good for the game in general. It won't solve the campy meta, which is the biggest issue the game has, since the main issue with that lies elsewhere, but it'll help more than it'll hinder. It's really strange that WG doesn't seem to want to change the campiness of the game, since they clearly want shorter games. And if games get shorter by being less campy, I'm all for it. Well, I did hear the CVs were heavily nerfed. I wonder if WG is gonna rebuff them again to some middle ground.
  10. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    All changes that makes your choices matter more increase the skill gap. But I don't think this will affect the skillgap noticeably. Not even close to the increase in skillgap radar in general caused. How so? Because your build choices matter more? I really just bought her. Haven't really gotten into how she plays. Especially since the highest tiered US heavy cruiser I've played other than her was the T8 New Orleans. Fun though. Fairly tanky for a cruiser and packs a mean punch. Feels like she can outbrawl any other cruiser. Radar? yeah, a bit lacking, but it still feels better than picking the hydro. Would've liked spotter planes for the DM meme-build. Could've been fun. I also haven't played since the rework. Kinda felt like meh with the rework chaos and other stuff out of game. Has it calmed down somewhat yet?
  11. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    Radar is one of the simplest mechanics in the game. All other spotting mechanics (other than assured acquisition) are more complicated. Elevating radar to that level won't change much. Radaring BBs is fun. I've even done so deliberately. Of course, the DDs were dead or way elsewhere and some BB tried to hide from my Moskva. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that, but of the three or so things I can think of in a few seconds all seem like reasonable arguments. However, requiring cruisers to keep some rudimentary track of DDs concealments to optimally use one of the most influential tools in the game doesn't seem like such a harsh price. Mind that stealth DDs usually fall within a fairly narrow range of concealment ranges, most of them between 5.8km and 6.2km with a few outliers like IJN and RU. There's more difference between a stealth build DD and a non-stealth DD than it is between two DDs. So there wouldn't be much of a difference between them. So it'd still be quite possible to play passably with just a generalisation of their radar concealment in mind. The players who could actually benefit from more exact knowledge are already so much better that they'd have no trouble with this.
  12. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    It's the same as execting him to understand that he sometimes can see a Kagero at 5.4km and sometimes at 6.6km. Also, I thought the general opinion was that we shouldn't balance the game after potatoes? So you're opposed to the idea that a radar cruiser should have to keep track of the same things as a DD? Except that for a DD it's still much more important. Of course. It still helps against anything that isn't radar.
  13. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    "Should be", sure, but this is WG. I'm sure they'd find at least half a dozen ways to screw it up. It's really very similar to how you don't spot ships when they come within your spotting range unless they're also within their concealment range. And that system has been in the game as long as I can remember. And from what I can understand, they have a similar system in WoT. You have your spotting distance, and then the opposing tank's percentage based camo value get detracted from that. WG doesn't seem to have any issue forcing players to grasp that system, or die not grasping it. (Disclaimer: My entire knowledge of WoT comes from QB and Jangles videos so they might not be accurate.) All you really have to get used to is that your radar has a variable range rather than a fixed one. If a Kebab is 8km away from you and you don't see him already then I'd wonder why he's running a full concealment build on a Kebab. Odd example aside, a bigger boat being more easily radared makes perfect sense. It's not counterintuitive. No, it wouldn't be confusing. We have those various values in the game as is. You never know what build an opposing DD is using. There are times when you can outspot an enemy DD, and there are times when you can't. And since that's a whole lot of numbers to keep track of and you don't know from the start what the enemy DD has, from what I can gather, most smarter players just assume full concealment build and work from there. I think the main reason behind this idea is that it makes what choices you make concerning concealment actually worth something vs radar. Anything at all. As it is now, Radar just negates all the resources you spent on concealment. A DD who's radared might just as well be a standard build Kebab, but slower, with no armour, less HP and most likely no heal. Overall opinion: This would be a nice change if balanced properly (lel at WG balancing), but a low priority one. There are bigger issues in the game.
  14. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    Yeah. There's a lot of players who don't use their brain. But I'm not sure for whom it's too complicated. Considering the coding of the game I'd put a fair bit of greens on the WG dev team. Just look at the slap-patch coding they did for radar. The player side of it is debatable, and has been debated at length in this thread, but the coding behind it just seems like a cheap off-brand ducktape.
  15. Runegrem

    Radar Discussion Megathread

    He did say: Unless that was added later. Now, what "some reasonable" max range means is unclear, but probably somewhere between 5 km and 1514 km. Thing is though, if balanced properly, having radar detection be based at least partially on the target ship's concealment isn't necessarily a bad idea.
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