AnotherDuck

I could say the same thing. Well, I did. Everything can translate into different options while playing, like what angle you're in in the smoke. If you're outside smoke and the other one is inside the smoke, you can move much more freely. If you're the one inside the smoke, you can only move inside the smoke, or behind it. If you're outside the smoke, you can spot all kinds of things other than that one ship, while if you're inside the smoke, you have a far more limited vision of everything around you. And if a third ship spots for either of them, they can see it. Lots of different options.

I don't think it was a deus ex machina that she showed up. That made sense, at least thematically. The actual solution, on the other hand, was mostly kind of weird and out of place. Honestly, I started liking her because of her personality in the anime, and that was before I thought about her saying poi a lot. Mostly it was that scene when Bucky complained about the rumours about herself, and when Mutsuki asked who spread those rumours, she just pointed across the table to Yuudachi, who just said it was true. Or something like that; was a long while since I saw it. Anyway, she's shown to be lazy, irresponsible, and mean to her friends, but she's also shown to be the exact opposite when it really matters.

For one, it's a T10 ship, so those are naturally stronger. People also have a lot less experience with those, since Loyang is very prevalent in Ranked, while the Z-52 is relatively rare. I've not really looked up the stats relative to Gearing, but at least the longer hydro is less noticeable to the overall greater distances at T10 (there's a noticeable difference between T8 and T10). The Z-52 has great AP, but worse HE (well, better than Shimakaze), and AP can be angled against. Torpedoes are comparable to Gearing, I believe. Overall, it probably gets grouped into general "hydro is a bad idea for DDs" opinions, and not specifically about the ship itself.

Are you sure you didn't say, "Everyone go D!"?

The difference is that those are actual arguments for why Loyang isn't OP, unlike the "git gud" argument. Peronally I think the hydro range upgrade Loyang got was over the top. It was a balanced ship before that, so that upgrade was far from necessary. I'm not sure I'd say absolutely OP, but it was better balanced before. You can add a 3) to the last one: pushing into smoke. If I had hydro in Shimakaze I'd do that a lot (and probably other IJN DDs, but that's the one I've been playing the most lately), and that's a ship that's tier for tier a worse gunboat than Loyang.

It's not my priority, but it seems to be yours. The comparison with sitting behind an island was an illustration of a target not being visible to that ship. It was not an assertion that those thing are fundamentally the same, no matter how much you try to interpret something into my words. It's explaining what I mean using your words. Between two ships, one sitting in smoke and the other outside, there is no logical difference between their spotting mechanics toward each other. It's exactly the same. So, if you say that you shouldn't spot a battleship shooting outside the smoke, then that's exactly the same as if the battleship were the one in the smoke. There is no functional difference.

So you're saying a battleship should be able to shoot from smoke without being spotted? Because there's no difference whether it's the DD or the BB that sits in the smoke. All that matters is that there's smoke between the ships.

It's used as an excuse for something being overpowered. As in, "It's not overpowered, you can just git gud to overcome it." It's like saying Belfast isn't overpowered, since you can just git gud to defeat it. Or like a T10 ship vs a T5 ship isn't unfair, since you can just git gud to win that battle. It's not an argument. It's just an excuse that ultimately means absolutely nothing.

You mean that which I specifically said was the main difference.

Tachbana is just a T2 DD, so the gun arcs are so bad it doesn't matter what range it has. What you really want to do is brawl. Despite the tiny peashooters, you can citadel lots of cruisers since they don't have any armour at all yet. And at that range, bloom is a non-issue. You're detected most of the time anyway.

Howcome?

You can apply to the "git gud" argument to anything else, such as playing a Loyang without sonar. If you know what you're doing, you can use your DD for the team anyway. Besides, the "git gud" argument usually means, "You git gud; I just use my mechanically superior ship so I don't has to git gud."

You can't spot while sitting in smoke, gun bloom aside (which is still relatively recent). But other than that there's no difference between sitting behind an island and sitting in smoke.

Bloom time for Tachibana: 7.6 s. Pew, pew! Most DDs would have 12.7 s, though, which is still reasonable.

It's also the most powercreeped nation, where supposed buffs are often nerfs in disguise.

I know what you mean; I just think it's working as intended and that it's consistent with how the mechanics work. How it should (IMO) work is that bloom should disappear once you get undetected for any reason (whether sailing out of range, into smoke, or behind an island), rather than always remain the full 20 seconds. And bloom should never be shorter than the reload time. Should be like that, yes. But it's working as intendedTM.

If you shouldn't be able to spot anything from smoke, no one but the one with a radar should spot whatever the radar spots, and no one should see whatever DDs spot except those DDs. Radar in cyclone is unique in that it also increases your own spotting range, as in the range any ships are rendered for you. Cyclone lowers that spotting range, not the detectability of ships. That's why the radar ship is the only one who can see farther than the cyclone limit. Honestly, I don't really care that much if BBs can be spotted farther away in cyclone. They can tank well enough, and surviving for a radar duration is trivial, compared to any other ship. Missouri shouldn't have radar at any rate.

You know what? I agree with you. In addition, it's the same as being able to see ships from smoke. Other people are spotting for you, so i's exactly the same. Remove radar. Best solution. Make islands block radar. Obvious solution, as you said. As it works is just stupid. Make radar increase detectability by 50% (or similar) rather than an absolute range. Would still ignore smoke, but not islands. This would also make it possible to spot larger ships farther away than current mechanics Remove visual rendering. This might work, but it's a little bit like RL, just more precise.

It's still a defensive tool. It's just not as powerful and impenetrable of a defensive tool as you want it to be. It's also consistent with how gun bloom mechanics have always worked since they were introduced. From a game mechanic point of view, it's entirely logical. You can't just go around calling things illogical because you don't agree with them. Poor game design, sure. Illogical? That's just your argument.

Missouri has USN AP, which has better penetration. However, I find the accuracy to be worse than with Izumo. And yeah, HE spam isn't good for Izumo.

You mean I have to dig through your trash to find evidence of something I claim? Why should I do something you don't bother with? Do you hold me up to higher standards than you hold yourself? Besides, other people have done that throughout the thread, no matter how much you try to deny it.

When I'm in smoke, the detection is around that ~6 km range, since that's how smoke bloom works. What's the problem with that? It's worked like that ever since they reworked the gun bloom. If you fire your guns, and you're seen, your detection is bloomed out for 20 s. It doesn't matter if you hide in smoke, go behind an island, or sail out of range. It still remains bloomed out. Now, with the reworked smoke mechanics, the bloom still stays, as it always does, but it's reduced to the smoke bloom. It's working as intended. See, this is what I mean. Your immediate response when someone explains to you what you're doing wrong is to falsely accuse the other person of misbehaviour. The first step is to accept you're doing something inappropriate. And no, if I had a discussion with @Nechrom, I'd agree. Mostly because what you're saying is wrong, misguided, or otherwise misunderstood.

I think it has a possibility of working. You'd probably need some kind of protection for the player asked, since it's very easy to just demand they forgive you and threaten with the horrible punishment of losing a few points of karma, and possibly a chat ban.

If I smoke up in a RN CL, shoot at an enemy before the smoke manages to deploy and get visible because of the gun bloom, my experience is that I disappear from detection once the smoke deploys around me (assuming there are no closer ships).

Dude, try to apply some self reflection here. You're doing the exact same thing you're accusing others of. Yet again. And when your insults fail their purpose, you just ignore the user.