AnotherDuck

You don't need to play an Atlanta. You just need to go hug one. The hardest is if you're in a slow BB without support. DDs have their speed and agility, while cruisers have their AA, and are still relatively agile. A fast BB like Kongo can also have reasonable success at dodging torps. Something situational (mainly for a BB) is to have an island between yourself and the torp bombers, with a little bit of distance to the island. Don't hug it so the CV can't drop from between you and the islands, but leave some distance to trick the CV to drop the torps directly. If you're just close enough to the island, the torps won't have time to arm no matter what. The other option for the CV is to just fly around you, which takes a little bit of time, so you have time to shoot one or two planes down, which should help a little. For CVs, I think cross-dropping torps works best against DDs. While you can still dodge most of the torps, you're bound to get hit at least once, and for a DD, that's a lot of damage.

This is the map where I started to start with a hard turn to port (or starboard, depending on position) when playing as a battleship, just so I can get the guns rotated fast enough for when someone spots an enemy. On an unrelated note, this is the map I've got the fastest kill on. I used to not like it (probably because it showed up every other battle), but now I kind of do. For battleships and destroyers it's kinda fun. Cruisers, a little less. Carriers I have no idea. I think there's only one time when I played where my team went full-on defence. The carrier on our side apparently didn't read the chat so he started to whine about everyone leaving him, that we would lose, and all the standard whining. Naturally, we won. It's a slow start on a fast-paced map, but even if half your fleet is mostly ineffective for several minutes, once they get ready you've got focused firepower on spread out enemies. Kind of reminds me of one time where we played on the Solomon map, and we rushed middle. Enemy spread out, which made for fewer enemies who couldn't hold us back. Same principle: superior firepower. This and Hotspot can get some really lopsided spawns, especially if all battleships are in a division. When it happened on that map, we could just push their cap, since they had no battleships defending, and our cruisers felt a lot safer.

Happy?

If they want people to play more aggressively, they're buffing some of the cruisers with radars so they have a much easier time killing destroyers, while they nerf long range destroyer gameplay to force them to get closer, where they already made it more dangerous for them to be. WG seems to hate destroyers. They also did the skill update on commanders, with a free reset. Not long after they make one of the skills, which was a calculcated trade-off to begin with, into something that most of the time you'd be better off without. It's the only skill that has a negative side, and they make it worse. GG WG. I thought about spending some money for retraining once I figure out exactly what I want, but screw it. I'm retraining commanders from scratch. I'm not spending money if they actively make things worse.

My other avatar is a Yuudachi.

Detectability range: 1.5 km.

On the lower tier ships I keep, I also keep the captain (unless maybe if I want to respec).

Now I have to go and change my vote out of principle.

Radar absolutely doesn't need to be stronger. It's bad enough as it is. And if it's a destroyer that isn't at full health? Does she deserve to get killed for daring to come within a range where you're not singing MC Hammer songs? A battleship doesn't even need to load HE to do a lot of damage on a destroyer. Overpen damage still hurts a lot on destroyers. The problem is hitting them, since battleship guns aren't great at hitting small targets. Also, there are other punctuation marks than exclamation marks.

Blue? Isn't ARP Kongo black with glowing purple markings, or have I been sailing with a different ship all this time? I want Ashigara.

Prinz Eugen and Hood are definitely on top of that list. But other than those, I'd like to see ships from nations without current representation.

This is not WoT, so what happens there is irrelevant for what happens in WoW. That said, I think it's rare enough, so it's not a real problem. I've been detonated in 2% of all battles (I play about 60% DDs), all of which in DDs, other than two BB detonations from torps. Funniest one I've caused was probably when a DD approached our carrier uncontested, and I just got into range with a cruiser (Nurnie, I think), so I tossed a salvo, because why not. A few hits, detonation. Fun times. One time I got a full salvo into another cruiser with the same ship. Full HP, down to the sea bed. Well, I thought it was a detonation. Turned out it wasn't, so you don't need that to kill a ship in one salvo, even if you're not driving a battleship. I've also been detonated by carrier secondaries just before firing my torps.

Seems to help if you're in a division with someone not in a cruiser... But yeah, those firestarter missions attracts cruisers like nothing else.

I find Furutaka, Aoba, and Myoko to play very similarly, but with decent improvements at each upgrade. Great for citadels against other cruisers, great HE for destroyer combat (if you aim well, you can often sink them with two salvos) and setting fires. Less good at turret turning and fire rate, but with the damage and nice clusters, you can angle only while shooting, which you can't afford to at the same degree with faster firing cruisers. They're fun ships to play. I've not actually bought the standard Myoko, and I'm just cruising around in my ARP Myoko. More ships I want to buy than I have money for...

Since I mostly play destroyers, I don't care that much if I'm in a low tier ship. Some of the most fun battles have been in Umikaze in tier five games, which is three tiers up. And in my first game with Fuso, I had a tier eight game, which I took third or fourth place in our team, so not a bad game for a stock Japanese BB (which are notoriously worse than their upgraded versions) without captain skills. Still, Fuso does well at higher tiers. So do most other Japanese BBs. For cruisers, I've only really had a problem with the German ones, but they're still not terrible at higher tiers. You also get more experience in higher tier games, so there's that. The one thing about division spawns that annoys me the most is that I'm frequently start at the back of the fleet as a destroyer. When it's your job to quickly head to the caps and secure them, you don't want a lot of extra travel distance. One time, which we took advantage of, was when the opponents had two top-tier battleships in a division in the southwest spawn of Hotspot in a standard battle. That meant that as soon as we saw one of them, we knew there were no battleships defending their cap, so we could push hard without much worry.

If I'm in a DD and start firing on a BB with less than something like 3000 health, I usually do no damage at all (either HE or AP), unless the BB has that little health because of my torps. Often makes it pointless to try to finish off a BB if breaking stealth is an issue.

Citadels are 100%, overpens are 10%, normal pens are something like 20%-50%, and bounces, incapacitations, and hits on overly damaged areas are 0%, I believe. That about sound correct?

Well, it's not just those, but those are probably the worst. The other high tier USN cruisers I still have more problems with, although the difference is less significant. Less sustained fire, but more devastating strikes, with more accurate guns. T10 cruisers are a problem no matter what nation, though. But that's the thing with the radar. At the closer distances where it's easier to hit and kill destroyers, that's where you want an even greater advantage. That's where you want them with absolutely nothing to defend themselves with. So rather than a situation where it gets more and more dangerous the closer you get, you have more of a killzone effect, where it's perfectly safe to be outside and suicide to be inside.

That actually surprises me, since if I'm in a DD I'm usually better off against an IJN cruiser than a USN one. Not that a Zao is anything you should get into a gunfight with, but I tend to have more problems with an Atlanta or even a Cleveland than an Atago or an Ibuki. Is there just a difference in player skill and playstyles?

Fair enough on the first point. Launching torps into smoke is probably my most common way to kill DDs with torps. What I don't really understand is why you consider gunboats to be balanced with smoke firing in mind, while at the same time you think it's fair to have a consumable that can take away that balance. There is a point with the difference between IJN and USN cruisers. IJN cruisers tend to have slower but more powerful guns (I think), which means better alpha damage, so counting number of salvos is a little misleading, since it's really time spent shooting that matters. I'm not sure about accuracy on USN cruisers, but I find most IJN cruisers to hit where I aim, with tight clusters, even at long range. I actually usually have it easier attacking destroyers at mid range than cruisers at max range. As I said, that's my main experience with a cruiser against destroyers, and why I asked about firepower before.

He also said I thought of it as a win-button that works every time, which I've multiple times said isn't true. And no, I didn't say it was a personal attack, as attacking a strawman isn't a personal attack (well, it can be, but that's not the case here). It's an attack on an argument that's been modified and exaggerated so that it's easy to attack, even if it's not what was actually said in the first place. For example, if I said you're wrong because you said radar is completely useless (which can easily be proven wrong), that'd be a strawman, because you never said it's completely useless. Likewise, I've never said it's an instant win button, just that if you use it competently (and you can aim properly), it's far too easy to get an easy kill. The comment about being deserved to be fired upon from smoke is more a matter of if you like one game mechanic meant to counter another, the latter is completely fair, since it now has a counter. I also think you've said you think firing from smoke is a viable game mechanic, since it's balanced around that, so I'm honestly not sure why you think it's a personal attack, but feel free to correct me on that. The Myoko situation isn't extremely ideal. It's not that rare for me. I picked that example because it happened the most recently, which by the way didn't include a radar, just me firing upon a fleeing Fubuki. The "two salvos" argument is a little bit too specific, though. All it needs to be is as many salvos as you can fire within the time limit of the radar. Three salvos is still easily doable. How many salvos do you need to kill a destroyer?

If you want to be a part of the discussion, please read the posts you're responding to, rather than make crapup. You're not responding to my arguments, and instead you're making up strawmen to attack, so I'll ignore you.

Myoko can kill a Fubuki in two salvos, and that's a one tier difference, so if that scales up, you can do it at equal tiers all the way up. I don't have stealth fire set up on my Fubuki (although I might change that, since I like using the guns), but I do have it on my Benson. You can pelt a BB for quite some time without doing a whole lot of damage. It's going to be annoying for the BB, and you're going to get fire damage, but you really have to work for it as a DD, while at the same time, you're not accomplishing much else. It's usually best to just get a fire, wait until it's the BB uses the repair, and then set it on fire again. But stealth fire is also why I'd rather have radar increase the detectability range on ships than create a no-sail zone for DDs, since that would prevent stealth fire at the same time as not completely erasing the benefit of detectability ratings or holding your fire. It would also make it actually work differently than a sonar with higher power and shorter time. Detecting through mountains is stupid no matter how you cut it, though. That's what airplanes are for.

If you like radar, you deserve getting fired upon from smoke. Yes, a CV without planes is a glorified battering ram. But you don't lose all of your planes if you get caught by defensive fire. You lose a single squadron (or a few, if you group them and aren't quick enough). A CV has more planes than a single squadron. A DD doesn't have more than one life. Sure, players will find a way to adapt to radars. Players will find a way to adapt to any game mechanic no matter how stupid it is. By the way, how much worse is high tier cruiser firepower against high tier destroyers relative to, say, a Myoko shooting a Fubuki?

How close are you if the turn rate on turrets on any ship is too slow to keep up with what you're shooting at? It's one thing if you're turning yourself, since then the slower turrets (like pretty much all Japanese ones, regardless of class) won't keep up, but if you're not at spitting distance, turrets can aim well enough.