AnotherDuck

Sure. Want to send me the money?

Yes you can. Some us do play on older computers. Which works flawlessly unless you run a lot of programs in the background. Horrible UI aside, WoWs is designed to run on somewhat old computers.

Almost all of the time in Yamato you're either bow-in or show an angled broadside. If people try to approach you, you just back slowly away and chew up their hulls with little they can do about it.

Yeah, it was one of those battles nothing turned out the way you wanted it to. Weekend starts early sometimes.

I'm explicitly stating that I want to join the lottery. Because why not? Lotteries are fun.

Honestly, if I'm in Yamato, I often have IJN DDs in front of me, scouting. Probably because my mere presence scares away any radar cruisers, and since IJN DDs have great concealment, they can outspot any other DDs. And when they do I can shoot them, which my DDs tend to like. Northern Lights is indeed the worst map in the game. It's essentially one huge wall with some gaps in it and some tiny caps in those gaps, where anyone will die if they enter before half the other team is gone. Oh, and that BB trap to the east. The North rework didn't really help at all. Haven, on the other hand, works a lot better. The main problem is that it's like Trap, but with two centre traps. It's however more viable to flank there, since then you can get around the corners of the islands to shoot the radar cruisers hiding behind there. The problem with that, as usual, is that you actually need to push to get that far, and not just snipe from those flanks. Definitely. Damage farming being the most rewarding gameplay just leads to even more camping, since if you survive longer, you get to farm damage longer.

Would be nice to see other BB mains to take the same approach. Don't comment on what you don't know. It wouldn't be a good idea to remove them entirely when the target isn't possible to hit, since there are other uses for it many experienced players take advantage of. Estimating speed for main guns and torping targets coming into range are probably the two most important techniques. It would work if the filled in part of the guideline extends only as far as the range, and after that you only have the outline of the guideline. That way you can clearly see the range of your torps. This is what I do. Or, when I'm playing something else, I tell my DDs what I'm planning to do, if I get their support. Which usually involves me supporting them. Honestly, I don't get that much people telling me what to do in a DD. Then again, I tend to be rather aggressive, so I'm very rarely so passive they complain about that. I probably tell DDs what to do more than people tell me, but unless they really screw up, I don't tend to tell them they're wrong even if they don't do as I say. I also hear more people yelling at DDs when I play other ships. Usually I speak up to defend the DD then, such as someone telling a DD to rush C on Mountain Range early in the match, which is an almost certain radar trap waiting to happen.

The main reason DDs can carry as much as they can is because the BBs are scaring away all the cruisers.

Thread 4: "OMG torps need to be nerfed! They just took 50% of my HP and there was no way to avoid it! DDs shouldn't be able to do that much damage in a single salvo!"

Not quoting the entire post isn't the same thing as changing content, as long as you don't cut and splice parts together. I don't like quoting full posts when only a small part is relevant. That leads to bloated posts that contain mostly rubbish. Then again, if I quote you at all... You might not have gotten the answer you wanted, but you got the one you deserved. Yep.

no u How nice of you to understand. Well, it's not blind fact. It's been documented. I do.

How are you going to stop me? Ban me? And a large part of the rest of the forum. Just after reading this thread before, I read two random threads, and both of them had people complaining about the BB overpopulation. Be in denial if you want. Your choice to remain ignorant. But the thing is, if BBs are practically always at the max limit in matches, and the other ship types aren't, then you've got an overpopulation, because there's no even balance. Mainly I base the skill requirement on how easy it is to mess up completely, both for yourself and the team, as far as the skill floor is concerned (meaning lowest skill necessary to not drag your team down). For BBs, it's use WASD and try to be in reasonable range of the main combat zone. That's pretty much it. For CVs the necessary skill is roughly equal to the enemy CVs skill, so that's a variable. But CVs are broken anyway, which is why I tend to ignore them in discussions. Open water CAs (often tanky for cruisers and have flat shell arcs) usually require you to judge the distance properly, not show broadside while detected, and be vigilant of incoming BB shells (which requires some map awareness and not tunnel-visioning). They're not that hard to play, but mistakes are punished much harder than for BBs. CLs and some CAs (like the USN ones) you need to identify where you can best hide while providing sufficient fire support. If you have radar this should also be close to a cap or two. While mistakes are punished even harder than for CAs, you can usually avoid a lot of damage by simply remaining mostly in cover. Finding appropriate cover isn't that easy, but it's easier than dealing with radar. The British ones have advantages with smoke and heal, but are on the squishy side with mostly exposed citadels. DDs have to spot and cap to be useful. Just spotting is slightly easier, but can't be done if you also intend to smoke fire in a gunboat. So that's a tradeoff. That smoke can also quite often leave your team blind if you don't know what you're doing. Capping is almost always dangerous. A lot of the time you're in radar range with little that can be done about it, so learning how to deal with radar is a necessary skill. That alone is more difficult than everything a BB has to deal with. Sometimes you've got an island to hide behind in the cap, but then you've got the typical situation like on Shatter C cap: Ships sit indefinitely in the cap blocking it, with little other than rushing or the rest of the map being won/lost to change it. So that doesn't actually accomplish anything much, since at best you leave your team neutral. Any mistake can easily cripple or sink you. Nah. Accurately stating radar is their worst idea ruffles far more feathers, so it's more amusing to me. Besides, nothing wrong with Wooster if you remove the radar, so again, the problem is radar. And I find those easier to deal with in a DD than, say, Russian cruisers, since those have longer radar range and can actually hit you at that range. Wooster, unless you get close, isn't by itself that much of a threat to DDs. Something like Black is a worse idea.

I play Bismarck as a secondary brawler. Keep at ~1 km less than max secondary range, and show just enough broadside to get all secondaries to fire (most of them are on the side, and can't fire directly forward). If you take too much damage, you're too close to disengage by going to long range, so you need island cover for that. Plan ahead.

If Ocean is unplayable, it's the meta that's wrong, not the map.

Saying BBs have a bit of an overpopulation isn't exactly a controversal fact. Yes, it's a fact. It's been shown many times before. Anyone actually reading these forums should know that. Emotional? What makes me emotional? If anything, I'm a bit confused as to someone who's been on these forums so much could be so ignorant. If you want to call that "emotional", sure, it's your poison. And that someone isn't me. That was never in doubt. Well, for anyone reasonable who's been reading what I've written. So if you had doubts, you're either not reasonable, or you've not read what I've written. As for the rest of it, ForlornSailor probably covered most of it. I don't really care to argue with someone like you more than that, though. I'm a little ambivalent on it. Selfishly, I want DDs to require high skill, since that means I'll do better comparatively to others. But thinking about the overall gameplay and the meta, I want it to be a little easier for DDs. Right now, a high tiers, they're the least forgiving. There's a reason we think it's so typical for DDs to yolo in and die, but not any other type of ship. It's because it's hard to survive in a DD (and actually acomplish something). Again, this is the main reason I want radar gone. Sure, it buffs the offensive power of cruisers, but it also more significantly buffs the defence of BBs. And if it's one thing the game can do without it's higher BB survivability. Sure, but he's not one of them.

Yeah, very little is unplayable. Honestly, personally I'm probably doing better when it's more difficult for DDs, since that makes my own skill stand out more. It's actually one of the reasons I play DDs so much. By the way, you are strawmanning against Runegrem. You can do better than that. Seriously? That's the point you have trouble accepting? There's been five BBs per team more or less consistently since the German BBs were introduced years ago. And sometimes when late night MM doesn't find enough players, you get 6-9 BBs per team. The optimal amount of BBs per team for a good game is around three. To see that is extremely rare, and I'm not sure I've seen less than that outside limited game modes. You barely even see it in Operations. And that's the problem. Camping is rewarded. WG wants players to camp and not do anything that could potentially put them in danger. That's wrong, and need to be addressed. Playing aggressive and taking the initiative should be the stronger playstyle, since then you have a far more dynamic game.

Seeing as you're incapable of real arguments without ad hominems and other fallacies, I'll toss you into the same pile as DFens. This is the thing here: I do keep balance in mind. That's why I won't bend over backwards and accept what WG erroneously believes is good. I argue for what I believe in. If I believe they're wrong, I'm going to state as much. Not quite true. I don't like playing a CV with how they currently function. I also think they're fundamentally broken as far as game balance is concerned. I do, however, think CVs could exist in the game. They just need to work and be balanced in the same way other ships are, so you won't have to limit them to one or two if you don't want to have broken games. What gave me away? More specifically: I don't like the BB overpopulation when I'm playing a cruiser, and I don't like the meta it brings regardless. I'm however perfectly fine with playing with the BB meta in a DD or in a fun anti-BB BB like Yamato (which honestly has survived the power creep surprisingly well, with relatively few complaints about being overpowered or underpowered, and with few if any specific tweaks). Yeah, I'm not too hopeful about the lack of fighters, since that almost completely removes the AA capability of CVs, which seems wrong. This makes low-AA ships much more of a pain to play. It depends a little on how easy it ends up being to dodge incoming attacks. I think most people agree that the main problem with CVs is the controls, and the second is that they have too much impact on the game for a single ship. Too different from anything else, and the costs of failing to pay attention at all times is too great. While other players will at most lose their own ship unless they're complete potatoes, a CV playing even a little worse than the enemy CV can cost the team several ships with little they can do about it. It doesn't help that they need to constantly keep track of the entire map, more or less, while at the same time focus on details and things like strafing and manual drops. Macro and micro play doesn't gel that well together for the vast majority of players when it happens simultaneously. That just makes the skill gap so much wider. Sure, you have to consider the rest of the map in other ships, but it's not comparable. You just don't have the reach, so it's much slower. I can also cherrypick any number of game where I'd fare better if I wasn't spotted through islands. But cherrypicking isn't worth much. So why do you keep doing it?

LoS radar isn't a solution to much, but it's an improvement. Look, if you start your argument with a strawman, I'm not going to bother with a detailed response. I disagree with just about all your assessments.

Are you somehow implying there aren't a lot of potatoes in my clan? I mean, I'm one of the better players, and I'm just above average... And I also seem to play worse in divisions. At least from how it feels.

Back in the old days, it used to be good. Then they tweaked it slightly, which didn't change a lot, but I think it became slightly worse. Then they completely reworked it, and it became worse. And now they've reworked it completely yet again, and it's still becoming worse. One more time and it'll be worse than North...

More often than not those clanmates will fight against each other. Personal experience.

I'm not sure if you've listened to what I've always said, but I've always said that the overpopulation of BBs is the main issue. Solve that problem. Don't work around it by creating a meta that's focused around the BB overpopulation. That's the campy meta. That's why cruisers camp behind islands. Radars encourage and promote that kind of gameplay. Camping, camping, camping. Making that worse isn't going to solve anything. It's just going to legitimise the BB overpopulation by pretending it's not so bad. But it is.

Meanwhile, you get spotted, your cover is blown if you try to sneak up on someone, and you're open for fire from all enemies if you're not immediately in cover. Sure, it's useful to know if you're radared, but the misplay of stumbling into an active radar when it's LoS is far less likely than being radared from someone who could be anywhere within range. You also have to take into account the timer, since if you stumble into a radar, it's already gone for a while. If you get radared while in the range, you're in for the full duration. Yes, and knowledge or lack of knowledge is potential danger, not real danger. Ships spotting you and shooting you is real danger. You know what also happens almost every game with radars? DDs getting radared through island and killed because of it. It's far more dangerous than a little bit less information that for the most part doesn't come into play. A DD can outspot you from outside radar range in most cases, and people generally agree that if you can't, the radar has too long range and is overpowered. Which means most of the survivability issue is not about radar at all. If there's a point, it's not a significant point. Staying outside that range means sniping, which is a thing that you shouldn't do if you want to be reasonably effective. If sniping is the best way to deal with a problem, and you don't have a ship actually built for sniping, that problem is a problem that needs to go away from the game.

Actual danger is more dangerous than potential danger. Being spotted is always dangerous, unless you're in cover. If you're in cover, it doesn't matter which it is anyway, since you're not in danger regardless of whether radar is LoS. If you're spotted you can get shot at. If you're a DD and you're spotted you will get shot at. That's a real danger. If radar is LoS, that danger is less. The very slight risk of going out from cover and into radar if it's LoS is far less than being detected by some untouchable radar ship behind som island you can't do jack about. If the radar ship is behind an island, and its LoS, you're not affected. There's no danger at all. That's a whole lot less danger than being spotted and shot at. If you get radared and then take cover, you've got a timer ticking. You know the radar has been used, so you know roughly when to get out. You also know that ship won't have radar for a while once it's out. Besides, as I mentioned above, the part where you're radared in open water, most likely being shot at, is far more dangerous than not knowing exactly which second is safe to leave cover. The problem with cruisers' survivability is almost entirely the battleship overpopulation. Radar does very little for their survivability. As such, the argument is mostly pointless. That doesn't sound particularly significant if they don't usually use it anyway.

And I'm pretty sure I more often do 60k damage from a single Yamato salvo than I get a long flood on anyone from a torp. Or do over 60k damage within the time it takes Shimakaze to reload her torpedoes. Damage numbers if you compare BB shells with torpedoes aren't even funny. So BB shells should be nerfed before torpedoes.