Aotearas

*Edited

Make that for every BB with a below waterline citadel. And for the CQ in particular, WG can easily just decrease the heal efficacy by 50% and it's still by far the best heal. But that's something WG can do after raising the citadels if the ship is still too powerful. As for OP's "play it first before you comment" argument: I have plenty overall gameplay experience, I have the ship stats AND plenty third-party gameplay of the CQ in particular I can see to extrapolate how powerful the CQ is.

30 knots at tier X? You sure about that?

Tribal class looks like tier VII material at least, then the J-/K- class at tier VIII, L-/M- class at tier IX and possibly the Later Battle class as the tier X for a gunboat'y line, doubt there'd be many problems finding stuff for tier VI and lower. And those samey other ships might fill an entire line of torpedoboats depending on how WG tweaks around the performance stats of the torpedoes and concealment. I never delved deep into the RN DD archives though. There must be a topic floating around form someone who knew a lot more and actually compiled several lines of DDs complete with speculative ingame stats, but I fear that one has gone to the void (was a good while back and I can't seem to find it again).

Pretty sure the RN has enough designs to fill at least two full DD lines.

Put a captain with AFT and IFHE on her and I bet that thing might be quite a little trollcannon. Still wouldn't buy her, but if you got it for free, might aswell have fun with it.

Rewatching 'Black Lagoon' at the moment. Episode #15 ... f*ck man, that's still such a mean suckerpunch. Amazing how that series can encapsulate tragedy and how adept it is at wielding emotions for a show that might superficially look like Cynicism - The Anime. Damnit, who chopped onions in my room? I'm not tearing up, you are. Stop it!

Ah, to be fair, that Kagerou didn't actually pick a gunfight ... he just didn't get out of my way fast enough so I actually spotted him, it was only after I had spotted him that he decided to "ah screw it" and started shooting ... don't think he had enough time to regret that though.

You see comrade, in Soviet Khabarovsk, enemy spots YOU! Why any of those thought it'd be a bright idea to actually challenge a Khabarovsk in a gunnery duel is beyond me. Are there still so few Khaba's around that people haven't learned not to f*ck with 'em?

Everything looks better in a Kimono: For the Britbongs among us: Ze Germans are here too: And have a Kongou and Hoppou-chan aswell when we're at it:

Yeah, as if he took a battleship HE broadside to the face or something ...

A pretty successful gaming session today, just two or three instances of wondering how the team managed to kill themselves whilst our division was busy capping, holding off and sinking half the enemy team ... Two Brothers, Domination. The team splits into two pretty even groups, one going for A, the other (with us) going for D. I do believe we had a BB more on our side, but the other side had most of our toptiers, including a Baltimore division (who should've giggled with joy at the MM). Sometime later, whilst we're busy clearing our half of the map, a couple teammates whom I shall not name (take your own guess after looking at the teamscores) start b*tching about the D lemmingtrain (which never existed as I had introduced) and I see that the A group has somehow been mostly wiped out (and with rather interesting position markers where people got sunk ...). Whelp, gotta do the other half of the map aswell it seems. A couple exchanges (and almost a Devastating Strike AP volley at the enemy Neptune) later and I suddenly have to turn around AGAIN because the couple ships that tried to press up from D managed to get themselves killed and defend D angainst a Kutuzov and an Ibuki ... in the end our division with @Live85 and @tsounts managed to cram our team in the backpack and carry them to victory. And lastly @MortenTardo and @lameoll had insisted on a HE division ... (Morten, wash your keyboard!) We actually had to chase the enemy, those cowardly buggers! Seemed to be infectious too considering our Gearing, rather than feeling empowered by, oh I don't know ... a Khabarovsk, a Zao and a Conqueror (filthy, FILTHY!) division coming up right behind him, somehow decided that the best use of his ship is to scurry behind the little islands and creep forward as slow as he possibly can. I had to actually spot enemy DDs in my Khaba ... well, not so much spot them as present myself as a nice target, then get shot at and have the enemy DDs reveal themselves (fat lot of good that did to them, xaxaxa). Sometime later in the game the Gearing found his bravepills and actually joined the fight, presumably after I had chunked the enemy DDs a fair bit ... didn't pay much attention to the Gearing at that point as I was busy pounding the broadside of a Hindenburg with AP (who for some reason seemed happy to just ignore me, no plates off my hull and easy 55k damage).

Morten, stahp. He's already ded!

Did you even read my comment? I didn't say you win every battle by kiting. I'm just saying no other DD can win against the Khaba if he plays it smart. And when did I ever say anything about pushing into DDs? Are we even on same page here?

I wouldn't give it a citadel hitbox (at least not as a first choice). She has far too little HP. But only having a maximum of 26k HP (minus heal potential) is already a good trade-off. I'm not afraid to pick the occasional gunfights with cruisers in my Khaba, but even though I can typically count on HE not being nearly as dangerous due to the 50mm troll armour, it's still not a fight you can win without evasion tanking (and if Khaba would truly get cruiser matchmaking I'd probably switch the concealment module for steering gears mod.3). But Khaba definately plays more like a cruiser than it does like a DD (particularily after the torpedo nerf). MM should reflect that, if only because it should help minimizing mismatched team match-ups and also potentionally open up the Khaba to other balance tweaks, though I'd say giving her a citadel would be rather heavy handed (unless she gets considerable range and manouverability buffs to make evasion tanking easier since that would be the only viable defence if she ever got a citadel hitbox).

We obviously also need something for the cruiser connoisseurs! Medium bumps!

Uhuh ... then how about sail angled straight away from the Gearing for a couple seconds (as your backturrets keep hammering it) so you're outside of his ballistical comfort zone (AP will start bouncing due to impact angles and a good chunk of his HE will shatter on the 50mm hull) and THEN turn enough to bring your foward guns to bear, at which point you have a bit less than 20 seconds to murder a competent Gearing captain (who will try to disengage from a kiting Khaba if he knows what's good for him). Within that latter timeframe, the Khaba is as good as immune to damage from the Gearing (worse hitrates and inconsistent damage from AP and HE at anything that isn't knifefight range) and can almost effortless let its dpm work the Gearing over. I'm sorry, but if your counterargument to the Khaba murdering other DDs in a fight is "shoot AP into its broadside at close range", then you're simply suppositioning the Khaba player is an idiot and the other DD player is smart enough to switch to AP to exploit the armoured broadside. Neither of the two are particularily common. I have a Gearing and a Khaba and I've faced others in both ships firsthand. I like to believe I know what I'm talking about here. And if we came back to the original Tashkent vs Khaba comparision, a Tashkent chasing a Khaba (both ships having 2x2 barrels to shoot another) will still result in a Khaba win (Khaba can and will shatter some HE shells, Tashkent won't). Reverse the order and have a Khaba chase a Tashkent ... doubt I'll have to elaborate much. The only other universal counter available to DDs in fighting a Khaba is to simply not fight them fair and square. Outspot the Khaba and let your friends deal with it. Which I might point out is exactly the same standard procedure for DDs when facing cruiser opposition and with that little tidbit we come full circle: give Khaba cruiser matchmaking. If anyone wants a russian ship that plays like a DD, that's what we have the Grozovoi for now. Khaba isn't invincible or straight-up guaranteed to win every DD duel. But if people could stop downplaying or trying to argue around the massive advantages (that's a plural and not only because it has two more barrels) she has over every other DD when it comes to slugging it out, that'd be real neat (and frankly necessary in any balancing discussion).

They had the Shimakaze though ... and asymmetrical MM like this could be minimized if the matchmaking mirrored the actual play roles for DDs (and the Khaba simply doesn't play like conventional DDs of that tier bracket). Hence why Khaba should imho get cruiser matchmaking: it plays like one, group into into teams like one.

Pretty sure I ate most of them midships where the torpedobelt ought to be the most effective.

I disagree on that point. Fletcher trades a bit of gun dpm for better torpedo potential compared to the Gearing (and is less prone to taking AP pens due to its sleekier hull). Tashkent has not insignificant better torpedo potential (mostly since it can still stealthtorp), but in a gunfight a Khaba will simply brutalize a Tashkent so comprehensively you can't really compare the two in that category with a straight face, in no small part due to its 50mm troll armour that causes a good chunk of HE to harmlessly shatter which makes the Khaba exceptionally tough to fight for any other DD (unless it gives a neat broadside and the enemy DD is shooting AP, but that would simply be a gross misplay for the Khaba). Khabarovsk always has and still does simply crap on every non-Khaba DD in a gunnery duel. I'm not joking when I say the Khabarovsk should get cruiser matchmaking. For all intents and purposes, that thing plays like a light cruiser. Also comparing its gameplay to other DDs shows a night and day difference in roles (and makes me laugh every single time someone tells me to cap zones in the Khaba because "you're a DD" ... no, I'm really not). Maybe buff the Tashkent aswell, give it increased armour thickness and have MM treat it like a light cruiser aswell to smooth the learning curve towards the Khaba. Let the Grozovoi be the standard DD for the russian line.

Had a run in with a GZ Test I today in my Yamato. Turns out those DW torps hurt like mad. Took eight torps, for 55k damage (considering that's the Yamato with its ludicrous torpedo protection, that's quite a lot of alpha and I don't see any tier VIII BBs except possibly the Alabama and Amagi to take on those strikes without getting nuked). Mind you, I don't really begrudge that strike, I did end up a bit isolated as everyone else decided to play it defensively so I was on my own and a very attractive target for the GZ. On the other hand however I doubt even a good Shokaku or Lexington strike would've done as much damage (and I didn't even take the whole package on the chin) ... hell I'd even venture a guess that comparably successful Taiho strike wouldn't have done more damage and that CV is rightfully feared for its alpha strike capability. WG seems hellbent on making the GZ into an anti-BB monster (something which I'm not categorically against), but that kind of damage potential combined with the crippling overspecialization (iirc can't drop on DDs at all, plus rather poor fighter performance) makes for a poorly balanced ship imho.

Oh, you're going to just LOVE this:

Onto part #2: Nghahahaha Well, to be fair 95k of that damage was farmed on an AFK GK (om nom nom), but the rest was mostly lots of juicy cruiser broadsides (or whatever the US superheavy AP classifies as acceptable broadside ...). Had lots of cheeky fun in that game, even though my divisionmates @MortenTardo and @lameoll had a lot less fun as Morten suffered a nasty crash and lameoll simply didn't have much to shoot at as the enemy was extremely passive on his side of the map whilst I was chewing up basically everything in the northern part of the map. Still, not to look a gifted horse in the mouth ... And last but not least: Bit of a shooting gallery. Between helpful Gearings smoking up allies, my own smoke, Morten's radar and generally digging in hard in B the enemy team smashed themselves to pieces against our entrenched position until all the brave ones were dead and the rest cowered (some legitimately forced to ...) behind islands. Sadly once again my Kraken was denied since we won on points before I could bumrush a nearby Yamato around an island with my torps. *sadface*

I'll have to split this one into two comments due to the image limitations per post, so here's part #1: A solid albeit not spectacular game and really only here because the enemy CV apparently never had much a learning experience with Minotaur AA. Trying to strike a nearby GK the enemy Hakuryuu lost his entire attack aircraft wave (and a good chunk of the escorting/spotting fighters) between my Minotaur, @MortenTardo's Moskva and (almost an afterthought considering our AA numbers) the GK's own AA. Mkay, my Minotaur and Morten's Moskva were concealed in a smoke at that time, but you'd think the CV might try to stay clear away from what he no doubt must've realized was a no-fly zone, right? Right!? Nawww, he kept coming and kept losing aircraft. Ended that game with a neat 29 aircraft kills ... could've been a LOT more if I actually specced my Minotaur into AA (current build really only has the AA range increase mod, no other modules or captain skills that buff its AA). Neat boost for my XP and credits since the actual damage output wasn't much special. Then there was this little carry in my Charles Martel: Was plenty busy filling the gaps our team left, harassing the enemy left, right and center. At the later stage I was even forced to ignore the enemy Yorck happily pouring fire at my direction since my damage output was needed on the oncoming Tirpitz, a stalking Fletcher and the Iowa that was contesting the B cap. Only after the Fletcher ate two torps which I had thrown his way near their maximum range (seriously, DDs need to stop sitting stationary in their smoke ...) could I afford to turn about and give the Yorck a piece of my mind about what I thought getting shot at the entire time. I think that devastating AP salvo as he turned managed to get the message across. I know I must've mentioned it already but I really, really like the Charles Martel. Thing is a joy to play!