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Yare_Yare

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About Yare_Yare

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    Able Seaman
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  1. Yare_Yare

    CV Diskussionen

    Das Gefühl machtlos zu sein gegen seine Counter-Schiffsklasse war doch schon immer ein teil vom Spiel und gehört zum Balancing. Ein DD ist geliefert wenn ihn ein Kreuzer ertappt, ein Kreuzer wenn ihn ein BB ertappt, ein BB wenn ihn ein CV alleine ertappt, und ein CV wenn ihn ein DD ertappt. Das Problem ist dass die AA momentan dieses Schere/Stein/Papier Prinzip ignoriert und du DDs/ BBs hast die praktisch immun gegen Flugzeuge sind, vorallem wenn der CV lower Tier ist.
  2. Yare_Yare

    CV Diskussionen

    Wenn alle 3 Torps treffen 3x5k= 15k - 50% durch Torpedobulge, also etwa 7k wenns gut läuft.
  3. Yare_Yare

    CV Diskussionen

    Das Problem ist dass diese ganzen CV Nerfs nicht daher kamen dass CVs OP waren sondern daher dass die anderen Spieler sich schlicht weigern sich an das neue Meta anzupassen. Sie spielen ihre Schiffe immer noch genau so wie vor dem Rework wo es keine/kaum CVs gab und fahren in DDs am Anfang vom Gefecht direkt ins Cap alleine und sterben dann. Seit dem Rework ist das Cappen mehr eine Team Angelegenheit geworden statt nur Aufgabe der DDs. Das selbe sieht man dann bei anderen Schiffen wie Bismarck die keine AA haben und trotzdem versuchen alleine irgendwas zu reissen. Solche Manöver sind das equivalent zu Breitseite zeigen in nem Kreuzer und sollten auch vom CV bestraft werden können, das hat nichts mit OP zu tun. Die gehen dann auf Stats Seiten und sehen das CVs einen hohen durchschnittlichen Schadenswert haben und vergleichen den dann mit ihren BBs die ein völlig anderes Schadensmodell haben und ignorieren Komplett die Tatsache dass CVs diesen hohen DPM haben um ihr fehlendes Alpha Strike potential auszugleichen. DD - Sehr hohes Alpha Potential - Sehr niedrige DPMBB - Hohes Alpha Potential - Niedrige DPMCA- Mittleres Alpha Potential - Mittlere DPMCL- Niedriges Alpha Potential - Hohe DPMCV - Kein Alpha Potential = Sehr Hohe DPM <- Grund warum CVs hohen durchschnittlichen Schaden haben aber im Gefecht von DDs und BBs die viele Alpha Strikes/Zitadellenhits hatten überholt werden im Schaden. Hätten CVs den selben durchschnittlichen Schaden wie andere Schiffe würde sich das in einem extrem niedrigem Einfluss auf den Schlachtverlauf wiederspiegeln weil 40k Feuer/Flooding Schaden sehr viel einfacher wegzustecken ist als ein 40K Zitadellentreffer durch ein BB. Es gibt momentan schlichtweg zu viele Schiffe die eine zu starke AA haben obwohl sie keine ausgewiesenen AA Schiffe sind. Vorallem für Tier 8 CVs ist dieser Patch absolut lächerlich, man fliegt in ner Graf Zepp ne Yamato an die alleine rumfährt, weicht der Flak aus bis zum letzten Moment, geht in den Dropmodus und dann oneshottet ne Flak wolke alle 9 Flugzeuge auf einmal weg. Selbst wenn man überlebt und den Drop durch bekommt wird die Flak alle anderen Flugzeuge zerstören in der Zeit die man braucht um zu wenden und nochmals anzugreifen weil das Repair Consumable bei dem neuen dmg System nicht mehr funktioniert. Ich habe keine Ahnung was WG sich dabei denkt einen 10% HP Patch raus zu bringen den man auch noch SKILLEN muss. Das GESAMTE Squadron wird ONESHOTTED wenn man als T8 in nem T10 game ist. Wie zum F* soll mir da ein 10% HP Buff helfen? Bei der AA könnten die Flugzeuge 100% mehr HP haben und würden immer noch fallen wie die Fliegen. Selbst Schiffe wie die Saipan und Briten, die ausgewiesene gepanzerte Flugzeuge haben können gegen die immense Flak kaum was ausrichten selbst wenn sie richtig fliegen. Ich habe echt das Gefühl dass bei Wargaming kein einziger Developer ist der CV Main ist und wirklich Ahnung davon hat was er macht.
  4. Yare_Yare

    CV Rework Discussion

    Yeah i tought so but unless you abuse the slingshot mechanic 70% of your squad will be dead after the first drop because the haku planes have such low health that even a Yamato destroys them.
  5. Yare_Yare

    CV Rework Discussion

    Im pretty sure even Musashis do more then 6k per Salvo at 15ish Km, let alone Legendary Moduled Yamatos. And yes you are correct with the alpha and sustained damage, thats why im trying to explained to this people why they should not look at raw damage numbers to compare if a CV does too much damage or not in order to decide if they should cry for nerfs or not. Most of them just look at stats and see CVs having double the amount and then think their BB should have the same number. A CV should always have higher DPM then any other ship because it lacks the alpha strike potential they have. Its rather comparible with a Storm sending water waves where a BB will send lots of small waves that hit your coast that do nothen but also a sudden giant freakwave Tsunami wave every once in a while that wrecks your entire island, while a Carrier is more like a Storm that sends twice the amout of water, but only in small waves over a long time and there is no risk of freakwaves. A CV should always have higher DPM then any other ship because it lacks the alpha strike potential they have.
  6. Yare_Yare

    CV Rework Discussion

    What do you mean its Bullcrap you havent disproven any of my points?? CVs Hull Safety is irrelevant because a CV still gets weaker and weaker over the course of a battle because you can attack its planes while other ships profit from AR. By the time you reach a CV hes most likely almost out of planes anyway so it doesnt matter when he dies. And many ships can fire from smoke, islands or simply from 20km like the conq and still be relatively safe. And you cant shoot down their shells like you can planes can you? Yes Cruisers are more accurate then BBs so what? That doesnt change the fact that i stated in the slightest, BBs are still centered around citadel damage while cruisers focus on non citadel Chip Damage. "And if you got a Properly Specced T10 Battleships you can Deny other T10 BBs from Killing you entirely by not giving them Broadside :)" - yes this is exactly why i said that as a BB the majority of your damage should be from broadsite hits, not regular salvos, you are proving my point that countered your "So unless you basicly want to Claim. That BBs basicly Do their 80k Damage all at once at one Time in a Battle. And then are basicly Floating around Uselessly for the entire rest of these Battles. Your Argument would make no Sense." argument that claimed BBs do the majority of their Damage with small hits rather then punishing broadsides, wich is FALSE in a correctly played BB. So my argument does make sense. "But your making the Standard Mistake. Of basicly Assuming that the BBs get Perfect Situation. While the CV gets Worst Situation Possible. You basicly Compare the Damage a CV does to a BB that is entirely and accurately Focused on Avoiding Damage from Air Attacks with all its Power. And Compare it to a Battleship that is basicly a Complete Noob Showing his Broadside to the Battleship with the Biggest Guns in the entire Game :)" I didnt do any mistake, im not ASSUMING a perfect situation but talking about actual experience in regular random battles in the current OP AA tier 10 meta. The CV is always in a bad spot because of the insane AA with all the AA Specced Jean Barts, Yamatos, Yoshinos, Harugumos, Grosovois, Gearings and not to mention all the Minos, Worcesters and Des Moines that are im almost every single battle. What do you mean a BB entirely focused on avoiding damage from AA attacks? I have NEVER seen a single BB that didnt focus on avoiding Air attacks, they dodge my damn torps even when it means showing broadside to 3 enemy BBs, every single one Immedietly starts dodging and launches fighter planes what are you talking about. Broadside situations happen in EVERY single random battle, you see people broadsiding you ALL the time, its not a special miracle situation that you only see rarely, tier 10 is full of noobs. In every battle you have bow tanking ships and broadside opportunities. Look at this freakin des moines in this video. It showcases both how much broadside you see in a typical random battle aswell as how much Damage you can do if you exploit those and play the ship right. No CV in the game can do this much Damage in such a short period of time at same Tier targets without a high cost of planes. "But their Actual Damage is much much Higher per Hit. Most Cruisers are very Happy about even a 10k Hit or more. As a CV I will do 10k Hits Pretty Regular. And will also do 20k Hits like above :)" Yes thats exactly what i explained to you earlier? The lower your alpha potential is, the higher your normal raw damage has to be to compensate. DD - Very High Alpha Potential - Very low DPM BB - High Alpha Potential - Low DPM CA- Medium Alpha Potential - Medium DPM CL- Low Alpha Potential - High DPM CV - No Alpha Potential = Very High DPM <- Reason why CV Average Damage is higher then other ship classes but can be surpassed by BBs and DDs that got alot of Alpha Strikes in a Battle 27k AP bomb "alpha" damage seems high, i have never personally seen AP bombs hit for that much even when they citadel. Even if so you flew for 1-2 min+ to reach your target and lost atleast half your squadron because AP Bombers fall like Flys (specially Hakuryu and Graf Zepp ones) because they need to get so close. Or are you talking about AP bombing a Bismarck with a tier 10 Carrier while exploiting the slingshot mechanic? Even in this scenario the alpha damage is much lower of even a Minotaur that caught a DD or another Cruiser Broadside. I dont need to grasp for any straws because you are disproving your own points while proving mine, typing nonsense and putting stupid smileys behind it like you just gave an epic comeback, give me a f*ing break.
  7. Yare_Yare

    CV Rework Discussion

    Detonations are super Rare and usually most ships have anti detonation flags so i dount really count that as normal damage. Yamato average dmg per salvo should be more around 8k against bad targets. Even then thats still around 8k every 28 Seconds. And that doesnt even count in the potential to do 30k+ per salvo on a broadside In a CV i am able to drop 3 torps with 6k potential damage each, then out of those usually one misses so its 12k, those get reduced by torpedo bulges on average by 40% so its 7200dmg per drop. If im lucky and i survive RNG i might get another drop in for 14400dmg total and then i have to launch a new squad that needs 1-2 Minutes to reach the target again depending on if i have speed boost ready. In that time the BB can fire 2-4 salvos for 16-24k Damage until i reach him again so the alpha damage is much lower then the one of a BB, the only thing that makes a CV do more Damage on Average are the Fires and Floodings caused. And this was the best possible Scenario of a lonely BB being attack by an Audacious wich planes have alot of hp. If you try to attack ANYTHING with somewhat decent AA your DPM drops to almost 0. I even had scenarios where single German DDs oneshotted my entire Full HP rocket squadron while i was about to drop. Also the Class has to work and be tested in the worst case scenarios, not the best possible ones. You can play a tier 8 DD, Cruiser or BB in a tier 10 game and still end up top of the team even as a casual, you CANNOT do that in a tier 8 CV right now ever. You have to play like its ranked and be a galaxy brain otherwise you will be out of planes after 5 minutes into the game. My point is that the CV with this amount of AA takes too much effort to be good in compared to other ship classes. And its not fun to play if every ship is an AA cruiser. LIke you have to literally pre drop half your squad into the water so they dont get shot down after your strike how stupid is that. It would be better if they would Keep the AA like it was pre rework with some ships haveing none, some have decent one and some just oneshot you like Des Moines with AA Consumable.
  8. Yare_Yare

    CV Rework Discussion

    Damage over time IS irrelevant compared to the SAME amount of damage in form a single salvo or dev strike, yes. Thats why wargaming increased CV raw damage so much. Conqueror was just a example that happened today it can can be any other ship, the important thing is the dev strike. And yes you see Yamatos and Montanas oneshotting people multiple times a day not once a year. If a full hp tier 10 battleship is specced AA and uses its consumables and dodges wisely you will need atleast 6-10 minutes to kill it even if you focus it, specially in a t8 CV. I dont know what magical CV you are using that can Kill a BB faster then a good aiming Yamato can that caught him broadside. And YES BBs do NOT do their damage over time nor is the majority of their damage from small hits, thats only the case if you dont know how to aim and dont score citadels because you are in a kurfürst sniping or something. Especially in random battles usually what happens is something like you Miss/Ricochet/overpen 10 salvos at the beginning of the match at 18-20km and then a Cruiser [edited] up and gets spotted broadside near the cap at 14km and you blap him for 20k-40k doing more damage in that single salvo then all your previous salvos combined and then you go back to shooting angled targets because there is nothing else to shoot at until you find a broadside again. Their whole gameplay is CENTERED around achieving dev strikes/citadels but having less DPS then Cruisers as compensation. The only exceptions would be Yamato and Musashi because you can actually do 7-10k salvos on those without citadels on bow tanking ships but usually if you play a BB and the majority of your Damage is from 1-2 Pens per salvo because you couldnt find citadels you should switch to playing Cruisers instead because those do way more damage without citadels compared to BBs. And Carriers have even less Alpha Strike then Cruisers thats why they get even more Raw Damage to compensate. It has nothing to do with them being OP.
  9. Yare_Yare

    CV Rework Discussion

    You cant just look at the plain numbers to balance them, do you not know how Damage math works?? Carriers cant dev strike , they only do little bits of damage over time so they NEED to have much more raw damage over the course of the battle in order to be as effective as other ships. If a Yamato dev strikes a Conqueror for 80k Damage at the beginning of a Match and then dies thats WAY more impactful then if a Carrier was doing 80k damage to him over the course of 15min allowing him to use multiple repair partys. In order to compensate for that lack of alpha strike Carriers need to have roughly three times the raw damage over the course of the battle in order to achieve the same netto Damage done as other ship classes. Its the same reason why in any other video game like RPGs small bits of damage like Dots usually do twice as much damage per cast as direct hits of same power. If Carriers would have the same average DMG as other ships they would be totally useless and would have zero impact on the battle.
  10. Yare_Yare

    CV Rework Discussion

    thank you this is exactly what im talking about
  11. Yare_Yare

    CV Rework Discussion

    It happenned in 8.0 but they have been nerfed into the ground while the at the Same time the AA got buffed and more AA ships were introduced. You basicly need to put just as much unnessesairy micromanagement effort into playing a CV as it was before the rework if you dont want to end up with no planes, defeating the whole purpose.
  12. Yare_Yare

    CV Rework Discussion

    WTF are you talking about i just posted this after entire squadrons getting oneshotted by a Z52 while i was trying to strike it with Rockets, he was alone in a cap and had no other AA ships near him and i dodged Flak until i started the Attack run where you cant dodge anymore. This shouldnt be possible in a non AA cruiser. And i dont thrust Notser in anything related to CV changes because he's a Destroyer Lobbyist and has welcomed every change in the past that made his dds more op against CVs regardless of how shitty they were. If you want CV feedback you should listen to what actual CV mains have to say about it. And again: THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE REWORK IS FOR CASUALS TO BE ABLE TO PLAY THEM. You shouldnt have to be a galaxy brain just to be able to end up in the middle of the score board after you spend half the game spotting and doing nothing because you dont need this much tought in any other ship either. In my Henri all i do is drive at max range and spam HE and switch to Reload Booster AP when i catch a cruiser broadside and thats enough to end up top of the team with 150k dmg + 9 times out of 10. CV shouldnt need any more tought then any other ship class in the game.
  13. Yare_Yare

    CV Rework Discussion

    You are not outperforming other Ships just because you do more Damage and get More Exp in a CV. Even tho the Damage Numbers seem high in CVs usually 70% of that damage is from Dots that was repaired during the game. The only time you can get a kill in a CV is on targets that were low hp to begin with. None of your Damage really sticks compared to all other ships that do devastating strikes. Most of the impact you have on the game as a CV is because of spotting, not because your damage. And for the same reason you end up at the top of the team when you dont suck, its because you spot and defend caps more often then other ships. Also Carriers have a bonus to their exp since the rework to incentive players to learn how to play them without ending up at the bottom of the team. This game NEEDS more CASUALS playing carriers because it needs the quantity, not quality. It doesnt help the game if it gets 10 pros playing CVs again we wouldnt have needed a rework then. If a casual doesnt suck in CV he should end up top 3 in the team. The claims that AA is fine now is absolutely wrong.
  14. Yare_Yare

    CV Rework Discussion

    The AA was already overpowered before 8.5 with Battleships getting 75 plane kills oneshotting 8 planes at once even when trying to dodge flak but now its unplayable. The only ships that should be capable of even coming close to this AA should be Minotaur and specialized AA Cruisers with Consumables like Des Moines, not battleships and destroyers. I have Battleships literally oneshotting 9 planes at once even i am flying S curves to avoid flak in my Graf Zeppelin. The torpedo squad repair party DOESNT EVEN WORK ANYMORE when only one plane takes damage, you cant use it to tank because there is no situation in wich multiple planes would become orange/red anymore since 8.5. It feels like EVERY ship in the game now has the same AA as a Minotaur with AA specc. They didnt test this crap AT ALL.
  15. Yare_Yare

    Graf Zeppelin Secondaries Question

    I dont know but in my opinion the main purpose of the secondaries should be to fight off DDs at the SAME TIER or lower then yourself when your main guns are unable to do that effectively and as you mentioned the secondaries on the GZ are different in that they are supposed to be its "gimmick". It doesnt make sense for that gimmick to not work against ships of the same tier as you, that would be like if all ships tier 8 only take 10% of the damage from Tirpitz Torpedos instead the regular amount or if the Kidds AA Consumable doesnt get the full effect against tier 8 planes. Those 150mms can pen more, but they do less then half the DPS of the 105mm's and can NOT defend you properly from a tier 8 dd, also unlike the 150mms the 105mms can shoot at both sides of the ship. So on the GZ your main source of DPS against DDs are the 12x105mm that do roughly 5k dps and not the 150mms that only do 2k DPS. DDs also usually dont care much about fires. Tier 8 DDs have 19mm armor and are therefore immune to your 105mm secondaries (and therefore take like 70% less damage) even tho they are on the same tier, im just not sure if this feels right. Guess i will have to run away from same tier ships for now while trying to fight lower ones.
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