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gamemodels3d gives price as 5400 doubloons. https://gamemodels3d.com/games/worldofwarships/vehicles/pgsd506 LWM in her review mentioned price as "equivalent of 4,900 doubloons" https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/166862-premium-ship-review-108-t-61/ I think that LWM is more accurate and that would be 400 doubloons more then Gallant.

So you are mentioning a ships that were obviously mistakes and all of them accept T-61 and Cesare currently unavailable to buy. Good examples. Let's f*** up this game even more is exactly attitude that this game need now. And you know that .... how exactly? Also you can always check their games with JB. You can find them on their Twitch channels. So fill free to find all those 20k games and when you find one feel free to share it with us. Till then you are just assuming because that is what you want to believe. It is not unusual that people find ships that were obviously too strong/unbalanced as "interesting" and "something new". I guess that if WG release ships that couldn't be sunk/destroyed somebody will still find it interesting/something new no matter how unbalanced it is.

And you do understand that it will be a premium ship not a silver ship so there is no need to spend 4k for camo. But I guess that is a reason why nobody is playing other T9 premium BBs like Missouri and Musashi. Also since when we should balance T9 to T10 ships. Yes they see T10 ships a lot but they also see a T7 ships too. So you have to balance it relating to her tier taking into account both side of the MM. Again you are comparing T9 with T10. Again comparing T9 with T10. Maybe I should demand that all ships of T5 should be balanced comparing to T7 as they see them a lot in the current MM. And T6 balanced compared to T8. And ,hell yes, all T8 should be balanced compared to T10 because of MM. You are basing your opinion probably by watching the videos created by CCs, you know people who unlike you actually have a chance to play JB, still totally ignoring their opinion and taking your as the only relevant. I wonder how this game could have problem with ship balance in this game.

You are ignoring the fact that a lot of things changed since then. Some global changes like redesign of Captain Skills and removal of stealth fire hit some ships more then others. Also Hindy received some buffs too in that period like increase of HE pen from 1/6 to 1/4. WG have access to much more detailed stats then we do, and people tend to use stats from sites like wows-numbers which don't give complete stats and which give only all time stats not detailed stats by weak or month for example. As long as I play this game there is always a rumor that Cleveland will be moved to T8 eventually. It was temporary solution and Cleveland was significantly nerfed to fit at T6. She shouldn't be at T6 as she is "younger" than other T6 cruisers. She was a very good T6 simple because she was out of place at that tier. Dallas is not a bad ship but she is not a good ship either. And one thing is sure, she is not "new T6 Cleveland". So I understand that people complain about moving Cleveland to T8 and replacing her with Dallas, especially if they liked old Cleveland, but Cleveland is now where she should be from a start.

You mean post ww2? Well only two types that are viable for this game are pair of W-Class destroyers transferred from RN, Pula and Kotor, and homemade destroyer Split. Split could be interesting ship either by premium or silver as, during its history, it was designed to use 5x1 140mm guns by Royal Yugoslav Navy, planed to be rearmed with 5x1 135mm guns but ended with 4x1 127mm guns under Yugoslav Navy.

Some CCs, like Flamu, Flambass or Notser, (almost) every game they play they play it while they are streaming. While it is true that they use better games when they are creating a video for YT you can always check by yourself all their games on their Twitch channels. Personally I watch sometimes Flamu, Stuntman, Yuzral and Flambass. And while some of them you maybe not like personally, some of them, like Flamu and Flambass, are really good players. Yes they could have a bad games but averagely they have more good ones then bad ones. Their stats tell how good they are. And if they are really good at the game than maybe they know what are they talking about. It is up to you would you accept that or not.

You didn't pay 25k or whatever for a ship, you spend it on other stuff and as a reward you are getting T-61 for free and earlier. Why would WG will give you doubloons back? If you asked for some additional flags or camos for compensation that could make a sense but doubloons?

I guess this is Lert proposal for Dutch DD line DD tree: T1: van Kinsbergen or K-class (Built in steel) T2: Wolf (Built in steel) T3: Jakhals (Wolf with slight theoretical upgrade) T4: First group Admiralen (Built in steel, give Whitehead torpedoes) T5: Second group Admiralen (Built in steel, give Mk 10* torpedoes) T6: Gerard Callenburgh as designed (Built in steel) (Witte de With as premium with full consumable suite) T7: Isaac Sweers (Built in steel) T8: Holland (Built in steel, did not have torpedoes historically, might need theoretical torpedo inclusion) T9: Friesland (Built in steel, did not have torpedoes historically, though two Friesland class were temporarily given 8x tubes in the early 1960s) T10: Amsterdam (Built in steel, friesland class, give it the in-trials speed of 43 knots and the 1960s torpedo loadout) I don't know ... some of those ships doesn't seems particularly good to me. T2 and T3 are bad compared with other DDs. V-25 had almost twice displacement of Wolf class and 3 times more torps. Basically all T2 DDs were two times heavier. which means two times more HP and better armed. Even Smith would have more guns, more HP and more torps. Wolf and Jakhals both look quite week. Also don't like having two ships of the same class for two different tiers and here that is done four times for T2/T3, T4/T5, T6/T7 and T9/T10. This seems like trying to get a full line no matter does this is viable or not. Only notable difference between Gerard Callenburgh and Isaac Sweers are guns - 5 x 1 120mm compared to 3 x 2 4 inch (102mm) guns. And you'll need either and IFHE for 4 inch guns or 1/4 pen rule as they wouldn't be able to deal any damage to T8 and T9 DDs. And you won't need IFHE on the T8 to T10 which means no consistency. I think that Dutch Navy should be part of some combined NE & NWE tree as this looks too stretched to me. Maybe if there were some paper designs that could fill holes as now there only three, maybe four, classes that seems suitable for the game. If there are than I'm for it but I'm not a big fan of putting the lines just for a sake that somebody want them there because of national pride.

Turning radius is same for both Helena and Boise now, only because of lower speed Boise is slower in turning, and 1km shorter AA range (actually 0.8km shorter range of 127mm without any captain skill or module applied) is because Helena and Boise don't have a same secondary guns. Helena is using 128/38 mm while Boise's are 127/25 mm and that is why range on both is not a same. Lack of the plane is simple because it is a same version as 9dJ which never had one and WG didn't even bother to get back catapult on Boise model even tho she always had it while she was an USN ship. Lack of Hydro and DAA are probably result that WG never intended to release Boise and having all those consumables is a trade of US CLs not PanAm ships. I support trade of worse reload for heal but don't like that much less range and worse speed. Especially lack of speed is painful. Boise ended as a good balanced and interesting premium at T7. Still I prefer Helena because of speed, range and way better gun angles over Boise.

This is a good description. While T-61 is not the best in (almost) any area it is among the best in too many of them and this is what IMO is a problem. Overall it is better than all other T6 DDs and you can play her over any other T6 DD. Now you can call it OP or P2W (even tho I personally don't think that it is a P2W) or whatever you want but fact is she is just too good when compared to others especially to poor Gaeda. She is typical example of powercreep and this is what I don't like about it.

Why would Isaac Sweers be a silver ship? I mean Gerard Callenburgh was lead destroyer of the class, why wouldn't she be silver ship and Isaac Sweers a premium? Isaac Sweers had more distinguished carrier and also she had somewhat different armament compared to original design for the class.

I definitely support idea of premium Dutch ship and I don't mind if that is one of Admiralen Class destroyers, even tho my personal choice would be Isaac Sweers. But some of my opinions on proposal Spotter Plane - Well this could be interesting so why not Hydro - Fact that ship has hydro IRL is not particularly strong argument for the ship representation in the game have it too. By 1942 (almost) every USN fleet destroyer had a radar, USS Fletcher from the start had two of them, and of course every single one had sonar. But giving them to game model would be a bad move. So I don't think adding more ships with hydro at low tiers is a good idea. Tiering - This DD should be T4 or T5. It is simple to weak for T6 So I guess it could be T5 premium. Consumable wise it could be interesting to at least test spotter plane as a unique consumable but I'm against hydro. Fun fact: SMS V-25 (of V-25 class) briefly had a float-plane on board instead of one of her guns.

My personal choice for Atlanta captain would be this: Dedicated Atlanta captain - BFT Shared captain with Dallas/Helena - DE Shared captain with Cleveland/Seattle/Worcester - SI Any of this could work nicely with Boise too. For Flint captain with SI would be better option but both BFT and DE could work.

T8 - LY, might try Cleveland too T10 - YY, maybe Zao (not that I have much choice at T10 tho)

You didn't mentioned famous British battleship Kongo? What!

Stuntman9630 review

IMO T-61 is not properly balanced consider all other T-61. Is is OP? Well it is leaning i that direction. I mean it is not the best in anything compared with other T6 DDs but as a package is better than all others. For every thing that some other DD at T6 is better than T-61 you can find several in which T-61 is better that that ship. It is simple good in everything. And it it a waaaaaaaaay better than Gaeda for sure. I will definitely buy it but I would prefer if WG nerf it a little, at least that ridicules torpedo reload. Also I like this old(er) LWM short review of the ship (note 1: nothing changed on the ships till them and this was/will be its final form, note 2: hope you get a message) http://shipcomrade.com/?p=857

Oh I wasn't criticizing Dutch shipbuilding. Sorry if it got that way. I just thought if could be funny ... you know ... Superior German Engineering ... and stuff ... you know ... yea I probably should put there something else.

Well WG suggested that there is a possibility for the ship to change a nation. But lot of people not just on US side but on EU too complained because of problems with captain of the nation/region with single ship and without tree and the 9dJ shady history. Also do you really think that WG won't make the same mistake again?

I think you are right. I can imagine WG trying to present T-61 to people on Gamescon WG: Remember how last year we bring you a famous German premium ship - Aircraft Carrier "Graf Zeppelin"? Well this year we have a new German premium for you? People: Oh that is great. Which one? WG: A glorious T-61! People: A what? Never heard of it. Is it some unrealized plan for German Super Battleship? WG: It is a destroyer. People: Destroyer? Ok, still never heard of it. Is is some famous destroyer? WG: Nope. It was never finished and it was sunk before it entered service. People: Errr . .. Ok ... Is it maybe some great destroyer design, product of the best German companies? WG: Nope. By German standard it is a small destroyer built in Netherlands People: What ... Is it at least be some high tier destroyer ... tier 8 or 10? WG: Nope. It is a tier 6 People: So not at all glorious ... not nearly as Graf Zeppelin was the last year. So why would this be attractive to all players? WG: Well it would be OP! People: Ah, OK than. You should start with that. Everyone loves OP ship and its is great for a game to have couple of those.

Well T-61 already get an aura of classic OP ship so this could be WG trying to cash on that. And seems like WG will continue to sprinkle the game with OP ships here and there on purpose because why not. I mean even ST like LWM kind of call it OP but seems like WG simply don't care. Wonder how long will take till T-61 go the same way as Gremy, Nikolai, Kami, Belfast and Kutuzov.

Well except UK duo, Fiji and Belfast, there were Helena, Boise/9dJ and Shchors with 152mm guns at T7 so Abruzzi is far from being unique in that part. Stat wise she is not bad, only trailing US and UK CLs but still better than all CAs at T7.

Yes that is what I meant. Quite often there were three or four ships that are moving to intercept transport ships. Even worse two times so far I had a players who took the most norther route, avoiding all enemy ship, just to sink Lexington and interestingly both failed to do so. My worse is four ships went for transport, two for CV leaving only one to protect the convoy. Last night played two more games and both were 5 Stars, with Atlanta and Fiji. While it could be frustrating when you get bad team it could also be a fun when you have couple of decent players. It is still miles away from UF by difficulty and I don't find it too hard or impossible to do it. US/UK CLs, and basically all BBs but Colorado are good choice for the this scenario.

Well yes it is difficult but far from UF IMO, and definitely not impossible to win, even with random team. I played it about dozen times, all with randoms, and so far had three games with 5 stars, 2 with Helena ... ... and one with Boise Biggest problem is that lot of people ignore task in pursue for damage like chasing transport ships leaving our transport ships totally unprotected to Missouri and company. In one game had a Myoko in team who instead for transports went to transport exit point for some reason and waited there even all transport ships were already destroyed. Or in that Boise game we had a Yorck who went all around, avoiding all enemy ships, just to intercept and kill Lexington and in the end failed to do that. But here and there you can get a couple of decent players and win. It is not easy to carry a bad team in this scenario, at least not to 5 stars. Also my "best" (2 Star) game was in Atlanta

Interesting video by Aerroon (and Stranger123)