Shirakami_Kon

They wouldn't like that becoming the actual seriously competitive aspect of the game, so not gonna happen.

Who would have thought that when you balance a new class around "testers" like that will cause the extreme failure submarines are, huh?

And this is precisely my issue with this "submarine testing" we're doing. It is well know already that devs don't even play the game, they just gather the game tracking each single result of each single game a ship is used and they buff or lower the parameters of any ship until it gets whatever average damage, spotting, tanking and match influence they decided it will have when released. The problem here is that these submarine players you see around are the ones generating the data for almighty WG spreadsheet, and we already see the type of balancing subs are getting to try to attempt that level of player that was handed a tier 8 and 10 submarine for free to perform... And they pretend that said "testing" done matters and helps any proper balancing... But hey, whatever, man. I still think there should be a compromise with the devs of this game, they can't just slap something they can't make it work and pretend it does. There should be timelines, introduce submarines 2, 3 patches maximum for "testing" that for some reason the developers of the game can't be arsed to do themselves like in other games, I wonder why, such a mystery. Did it actualy work? Great. Add them to the game and put people to grind them like everyone else. It failed again? Withdraw them for the same amount of patches we were testing them. Get back to thinking what the issue is why they didn't work last time and find a solution before trying testing again, and so on. But this situation right now just shows the most pitiful developer team I've seen in a game hammering a concept that doesn't work pretending it does. It's laughable to be honest.

True, but that guy in a Tirpitz took the wallet out. And while it certainly still happens a lot the paywall in the way filters a lot of players. Subs are the same issue but for free because why the hell not, so there's no stop to it whatsoever leading to the current state of the game we're in.

My point is the degrading quality of games because right now they are flooded at all tiers by players with ridiculously low number of games that they themselves don't know what they are doing yet but are in a tier 8 and 10 sub doing [edited]all because WG handed the submarine out of nowhere. Add to that that every single constant submarine change shows how WG themselves don't even know what to do with submarines to make them a finished concept and released and that the testing and balancing is provided by the type of players mentioned before and basically means that all the "testing" done is useless anyway. Subs isn't an influential class to fight against because the average "submarine tester" out there wouldn't be influential to the match in a 3 man division with a Thunderer, Napoli and Dalarna when it comes out. Are we supposed to believe that the "valuable data" the garbage spreadsheet is gathering and the average useless display of subs currently actually means anything?

I'm actually ok with subs getting into the game and added to the tech tree asap so people has to finally actually grind them and we get the trash players at tier 10 in subs out and we have some sub player filtering. That is if WG proved competent enough to introduce something better than the utter garbage they try to pass for subs that we have to test, that's what's tiring. And we had a break from submarines months back when devs admitted they have no clue what they are trying to do with them. Fastforward many months to right now and the fact still hasn't changed one bit, so why don't we have a break from them again while devs go back to scratch their heads and try to muster some clue about what to do with them?

Bet they'd actually love that. That all long time players that still care about this game (or what it used to be) just left and having no one to call them out on their bs and be left alone with all the clueless newcomers to ripoff because wouldn't even know how shafted they'd get because they don't even know better nowadays. Would be a dream come true for certain.

Honestly, you can't carry these teams anymore. You used to, because even if vaguely there used to be some capability, even for the average player to muster some sort of survivability and understanding that sometimes just staying alive withoug giving your ship points for free gave you time to have the change to make a comeback. But not anymore, nowadays every single game is a 10 minutes game where one of the teams at random rolls over the other. You can't win against 23 players. Nowadays it's just a matter of wishing your team is not the one that's 4 ships down within the first 3 minutes.

Because WG still thinks that pulling russian ships out of thin air with mechanic bending capabilities every few months is somehow going to solve their forever ongoing issue of bleeding population in their pet RU server.

Isn't it amazing how submarines get every tool they'll ever need and more and get every minuscule inconvenience they may have fixed? Like now splitting their hidrophone into two consumables because having only one consumable for two tasks was inconvenient. It's like WG never designed an all powerful consumable like DCP that doesn't know such pathetic weakness as needing to get split in two, one part dealing with floods, fires and module repairs and the other one for dealing with retarded pings, right?

Man, I really have to admit that the more I play Boise in Narai the more I love that ship for that. If you know what you can take and what not in this ship it's the most fun you can have in Narai. You can play like an absolute psycho and take fire from everyone (except Missouri, mind you, that thing can and may you up) but you're such a zombi with that superheal that you just won't die. Imagine a flimsy 33,300 HP tier 7 CL with no armor to speak of that eats 48k damage and refuses to die. I get that this ship is kind of a sleeper that no one is interested in buying because being a tier 7 that will get uptiered to tier 9 in randoms with 13 km range is just plain unfun (really makes me glad I got this from a container, thank you for that, WG), but it's an absolute blast in Narai. Remember to dust yours off there if you happen to have one, you won't regret it.

Sure, I got a Weimar myself from a container long ago, I use it, I know how good it is, even one of my posts here is one of my scores in Narai with it. But even with all that I notice a hate I don't understand against the ship in Narai in this topic and the operation that honestly surprises me, sure, the ship is awesome, but not everything is on the potential on the ship on paper and you can beat Weimars in Narai with other ships. One of such examples was this morning. I took out my Boise this time, which honestly I'm getting to like more than Weimar for Narai since besides the Missouri the superheal allows you to pretty much just ignore any incoming fire and run through everything else for free. But to the point, there was a Weimar that took the escaping convoys route. A Rooke charged the same direction, speedboost and all, guns and secondaries blazing and they started competing each other while I just walked my straight line through the middle of the map tanking it through with my Boise superheal. Honestly, the Rooke did great, took 9 ships with it, even rammed 2 convoys in his frenzy of leaving nothing behind for the Weimar, which was left with 6 kills. Even rammed the Colorado at the very end in the enemy spawn, and before the battle ends proceeds to yell in chat "WEIMAR DENIED". Meanwhile I was watching all that with 14 ships sank and 350k damage while the game showed the end score with me topping the score with a margin over both Rooke second and Weimar third like... But aparently that's completely fine and all just because I wasn't a Weimar that game. But you Weimar, you filthy, filthy ship. I don't know, sometimes I guess it's just that I don't get people or something, but I don't understand situations like that.

Subs have French DD saturation if not even better. Because they need it apparently, obviously /s

I still don't understand the hate/obsesion with Weimar, it's like it does something any other tier 7 cruiser can't. Today I did this with a Belfast that doesn't even have torpedos. So what with it? I had another 350k damage,14 ships sunk with Boise too. If you know what you're doing you can get these results with any cruiser. Someone explain me what is so special about Weimar, because I don't get it.

I was just training my Prinz Eugen commander right now as a second german commander since I don't have Lütjens yet

Economy wise I use the blue economy boosters for credits, commander XP and Free XP while farming Narai and I'm "one of those disgusting Weimar" some people seem to complain about here and this is an example of one of my matches in Narai this morning for reference (with the bonuses mentioned before applied).

Best ships are CLs, more if they have usable torpedos, but they can work even without them. As mentioned earlier good tier 7s for Narai are Fiji, Schors, Helena and Chumphon. If you happen to have any of Weimar, Lazo, Boise/Nueve de Julio, Atlanta or Belfast they work great too, but those are premiums, though you can check them some of them for coal if you have spare. As for tips, ideally you want someone to go straight south from spawn in Narai to intercept the cargo ships from escaping and one go right to sink the CV, which is another priority target for the operation goals, after that both group up with the rest of the team in the enemy spawn and finish sinking everyone, that's pretty much it.

Funny of you OP to make it sound like ASW is efficient in any way, provided we get to even see where the submarine is and where to launch or planes to to begin with and implying that we aren't ALL defenseless against this bs.

I hate high tier CVs, but I don't see the issue with tier 4 CVs. Or well, I do for new players, but as a long time player that knows how to WASD tier 4 CVs are the least of my issues honeslty. As in... Lately I got tired of submarines everywhere and went to sealclub at tier 4. What I do there is grab my Yubari with her Aiming systems mod 0 she has access too to basically eliminate dispersion and snipe the other sealclubbing ridiculously small DDs on the enemy team. From there is just farming everything else from cover, abusing my accuracy against the crippled dispersion other tier 4s have. Sure, there will be CVs trying to do something but with the slightest maneuvering they can't even hit you. Tier 6 and 8s that can actually deal damage and abuse the pitiful AA of most ships and tier 10 CVs that will just crap on anything they wish I agree they are toxic as it gets, but I'll never understand complaints of the super slow with pitiful armament planes of tier 4s except from someone completely new to the game to be honest.

What do you want to blame them for honestly? I mean, I'm as happy about submarines as the next guy, but staff has no saying in development or power to change or revert anything. They may as well just copy paste our complaints and send them to the devs for real and devs clean their stern with it if you know what I mean... Of course we'd like to be heard and complain to someone that actually matters and has power to change what they are doing to the game, like straight to the developers, but Seraphice or the mods here aren't it... And the devs won't ever show their face or respond to anything, ever, so we'll keep talking to a wall, as always.

I don't know, man... I know it's just me, and well, who's advice I followed (@HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS if I remember correctly) and I just started spamming tiers 3 and 4. Those tiers are clean of the submarine filth and while you still don't get rid of CVs they are garbage anyway, so I just sail something like my Ishizuchi, Imperator or just aquired today Charleston with my 21 points Yamamoto, Halsey and Kutsnetzov and it's a blast. It's nice to remember the good old simplicity of the game every once in a while and how good some old relics are. And hey, who knows, considering the low population at those tiers since not many veterans play there maybe I manage to come across some new players often enough to drive them away from the game and save them from what's coming next by giving them an early taste of the game's fun and engagement.

Kamikaze R approves of this idea.

I've never found the AA commander skills to be good enough to justify running them over better options since the CV rework, so I'm not running them. And as said if anyone asked me I would point out to more valuable options depending on the ship they asked me a build for. AA is too low to begin with in the vast mayority of ships except very rare exceptions, and the buff provided by the commander skills is so little that it makes no real difference in both cases, if your AA was useless it will still be with skills, if you're one of the ships with near functional AA left, the skills are so poor that they won't make any difference either, they are just a waste of points.

The concealment bonus from camos has been built in all ships by default now. The dispersion bonus on the other hand wasn't as lucky and completely disappeared.

I didn't see it happening myself, but I remember a clanmate mentioning in our clan chat that we lost some starts in NB, and some minutes later they were back and hours later on that day that we were down stars from were we were previously. I didn't honesly pay much attention to it not caring much about NB myself anyway, but though I would mention it since it's been brought up here now too. Seems to suspicious to be a mere coincidence? Maybe there's some bug with the star counting or something?