_Teob_

I don't think I will ever understand how people think it's OK to nerf DDs and CAs because BBs are passive. Like the obvious solution would have been to make smoke simply not work on BBs. Consider them too big to be covered by smoke and be done with it. How can people think this is OK. If @Capra76;s calculations are accurate then this is unbelievable. It simply is a massive nerf to DDs and smoke CAs.

No, in the new system, it wouldn't change much for DDs other than reduction in duration by about 20% or so. This assuming that no big ships come near. How do you make sure no big ships come near? Well by smoking in places that wouldn't be good for BBs to be in. So like I said before it will promote a confrontational attitude towards your own team mates. If however, big ships do get close, then yes, it has a totally new role - that of a fart in the wind.

It very much is about gameplay. It will promote a confrontational attitude toward your own teammates. How can people not see that at least that is bad for the game? And every feature that was introduced made the game worse. RPF is horrible. I got to rank 1 not in small part because for some reason a lot of other DDs weren't using it so I hunted them down with impunity. IFHE has made 150mm ships dpm gods and has made stuff like the MK insane. What people don't seem to get is that when people said the sky would be falling, they were right every time. It's just that for players at the apex of performance in this game, the criteria for the "sky falling" are much lower than for the average Joe. Call it an overreaction but you can't flank anymore - ranked this season proved that, for example. For the random player that doesn't think RPF is a good skill and Priority target is never considered because what's the point, then yeah, the sky hasn't fallen too much...

Don't try to be clever. If the smoke is in the corner of the map, both the DD and the BB occupying said smoke are out of position, in our theoretical situation. The question isn't about tactical positioning in general, it's about who has more right over a smoke. I hope you got that, right? There is never a situation where a BB has more right to be in a smoke than the DD it belongs to. So the DD can never be out of position in a smoke... the smoke might be out of position, but that's a different discussion altogether. So if both a DD and a BB are occupying a smoke, the DD is always in his right to occupy that smoke. If he's too far away and he can't be effective (so the smoke is too far away), then it probably means that the DD went back to smoke a BB - so out of the kindness of his heart, the DD decided to allow the BB to use his smoke. See the point?

And I might use the smoke to try to save the genius in the BB but if he fires 30s later because derp, his repair is off cooldown then he's not worth my smoke. Secondly, you have no way of stopping a friendly BB from "taking residence" in your smoke as a DD. High tier BBs have a max speed of around 30kn. It doesn't take them too long to get close enough to start ruining your vape session, assuming this change goes through.

Unless I am wrong, the Yamato doesn't have a smoke, right? Well if it doesn't, then it must mean that the DD has smoke. This means that, since it's his smoke, the DD can never be out of position in his own smoke. Because, you see, it's his own damn smoke! So just because the mother of all squatters decides to rock up and also use the smoke, it doesn't mean that the DD should be thankful that it was allowed to be in the presence of a floating god and that it now needs to find a new home.

Neither of those would work, no. So first of all, smoking on caps is a bad idea. The only time it's worth doing is when you know there are no enemy DDs around and planes are going to spot you. Otherwise, the second you smoke, you will be torpedoed, lit up by radar/hydro, you name it. What you could do is drop a smoke line for a cruiser to help you with the cap. Say you smoke a DM so he can get close enough to radar. But it needs to be a line so he has a means of escape. This will not be possible if his big 203s will dissipate the smoke like a cheetos fart at a Magic the Gathering convention. While smoking retreating battleships will be impossible unless they realize you are smoking them and they stop firing. Right now, I don't expect my BBs to even notice that I am smoking them and stop or slow down. The risk of you wasting a smoke and then a BB just makes it all go poof because he's firing at something at 20km is just too great. It simply won't be worth it. Make no mistake, if this goes live, DDs will smoke themselves and themselves alone in randoms and it will make competitive even more static as now DDs will hold on to their smoke and use it only when a friendly BB is in trouble. At which point said friendly BB will stop firing and just wait until he repairs. BBs will literally just chill in smoke for a minute and a half or so as opposed to now when smokes are used offensively as well.

Yes, yes they are really that OP at the moment. And yes, unicum players carry much much easier in BBs than in any other boat. For what it's worth, in competitive, cruisers also do a lot of dmg... by cruisers I mean Kutuzov because nothing else can sail around BBs safely.

It's quite simple. In this very thread we had someone that was saying how they kill Khabas all the time with their Gearing. That is simply not true unless the Khaba is severely weakened from a previous engagement. And even then it might not be worth it. Mind you, you can deal with a Kiev or Tashkent just fine in the right circumstances as their DPM is much lower and they don't have the same armour. At Close range, a Gearing will eat a Kiev alive. DDs engaging the Khaba is a direct result of this weird myth that the Gearing (and others) can 1v1 a Khaba and all you need to do is get close to it. This is simply not true. At any rate, more on topic, the removal of the 10km torpedoes will make other DDs better at fighting the Khaba. At least now you will be able to smoke at like 7km away from it and use your guns on it without fear that it will torp your smoke. In the open it will still go through any DD stupid enough to engage it, like a hot knife through butter.

I think we all know now that it happens quite often. We need to get an answer on the weird damage numbers first (that I for one can't see as anything other than a bug) and then we can discuss actual normal penetrations.

It's been annoying me ever since they were introduced.

I am not sure if this is the right place to post this or if it hasn't already been suggested but I really wish the animation on the containers was a bit quicker (or if I could just skip it altogether). Also, I think that a preset button where I can select what my next chest will be until I change it would be really useful. Like for example I could push one button to remove the animation and another one to select the flag container or increased chance for super container or whatever I want (so I don't have to select it each time). I hope this makes sense and I imagine that both of these have been suggested already Edit: +

... I have the sacrificial goat. Who has the knife? And I know one of you nerds is a virgin - can you please jump into a volcano while yelling "Anshan"?

Tried - when I try to report a post, I get an endless loading loop. They cleaned this once before when some other dude was constantly spewing nonsense with the same unwavering certainty as our local "patriot" does. I hope the mods will visit again and delete everything above post #306, including my own. This is my last off-topic post. Apologies. Edit: Nope, I left it until it said that the page was unresponsive. I just can't report any posts for some reason. If someone else could throw a couple of reports on the off topic posts starting with post #307, I would really appreciate it.

Stop it, please. This is neither constructive nor is it the topic of this thread. You are wasting your time arguing with someone that counters game balance with historical accuracy, counters historical accuracy with confirmation bias and when he's not doing that, he flat out ignores counterpoints altogether. He is a troll or someone that cares more about being right than about what is objectively correct and you are helping him derail this thread.

Couldn't have said it better. There's a point when you have to ignore people like that. There is no point debating with someone if they will casually ignore all your arguments. In other news, I hope Sub_Octavian will be back to this thread at some point with some explanations for those weird damage numbers on those penetrations. I am keen to move the discussion forward but I feel like that can only be done once we know what the situation is.

Your position is admirable but I would say that this is the best season ever to do ranked. If people get angry pre rank 5 then they should just be ignored. Go for it - play some matches and don't worry about your skill level as ranked will teach you more in 10 matches than 1000 random matches. You will learn positioning, aiming, tactics etc. Just make sure you don't play some weird spec and you have a 12-14 pt captain at least. Other than that, give it your best shot - that is the only thing that is required of you.

Nobody in this clan cheats, therefore there is no reason to join them. They actually seem like a fun bunch who generally know what they are talking about

I didn't mean you in particular, I mean in general. There are quite a few people that seem to think less of people that get rank 1, for some reason.

See this is what I don't get. Fine, if you can't "cut it" or if it's not your thing, don't do it. But I never got why people who don't go for rank one have so much scorn for people that do rank out. I just took Noodle's post as an example but it's by far not the worst I've seen. And you shouldn't go backward. The worst that's happened to me is spending 15 matches, 9 out of which were losses and ending up in the exact same spot. I don't consider it wasted time though. It's frustrating, yes but I also feel like I've learned a lot and some of the matches were really close and epic.

Yeah I am not saying the jump isn't significant for other boats. It might even be, as you say, more noticeable/significant than for BBs but I do not under any circumstance consider getting 50% more firepower insignificant. Like I see where you're coming from because a t8 BB will happily delete a t10 cruiser if given half a chance while it might struggle with t10 cruisers. But my argument is simply that the increased firepower and surviability makes actual floating gods out of t10 BBs while everything else just gets better at dealing with them. It's like, yes cruisers do start being able to burn down BBs much easier than they did at t8 but I'll be damned if it's not terrifying seeing the 12 rifles that the GK or Monty have or the 9 rail guns that Yams have pointed at you. No cruiser wants to be in that situation. I mean no t9 or t8 BB wants to be in that situation either despite their armour. They just pack such overwhelming firepower... There is a reason why BBs top the dmg charts, in my opinion. And that doesn't even tell the whole story as that dmg is AP which you can't repair to the same extent as fire dmg. I just think that there's nothing scarier than a T10 BB and they are the only type of ship where you never ask yourself what the point was of grinding up the line.

With all the possible respect, this is the first time I 100% disagree with you completely (which is odd as I usually find myself agreeing with you profusely on most things so I hope you won't begrudge me this instance where I have a different view). ALL t10 BBs get a massive boost in both health and gun power. USN get a +33% increase in firepower. German BBs get a 50% increase! Then a 25-30% increase in health across all 3 lines. Yes all ship lines get a significant boost at t10 (except arguably USN DDs) but BBs are no different. Back on topic, I suck in the Yamato. I can barely play her. My stats aren't horrible but I don't feel comfortable most of the time. The Montana however, is a different story. My stats are only marginally better in it but I feel much more confident. So like someone else mentioned, some ships simply don't suit us. Everyone has that one boat that everyone else seems to be able to play but they can't. I have several (the Khaba being the weirdest - I cannot play that ship for the life of me). The other aspect is that T10 is rough. Nobody should beat themselves too hard over their performance there. What happens at t10 is you run into people that have been playing the game for far longer than at lower tiers. The skill ceiling is much higher at t10. You won't run into many people in t10 boats that have no clue what they are doing (and yes, I am aware that it does happen but not nearly as often as it does at lower tiers). tl;dr: Stick with it. T10 is rough

I thought... I thought that was our job :(

Grozovoi is a good ship. I mean evn before the proposed buff. I thought it wasn't a very good boat but I was totally wrong. Your proposed build it very close to what I run, but I prefer BFT instead of DE. Fire dmg is easy to repair but slamming someone for 2k-2.5k every salvo constantly is considerably more scary.

They really shouldn't. How can you not understand that from a balance perspective that is super dumb? Also, how can you not understand that even from a historical perspective that almost never happened because hit rate was terrible for pretty much all ships? You work in the navy and you have all these weird notions... are you in fact the Bad Advice Captain?